Chavez Shuts Down Free Speech!

[Baron Max]

Yeah, I read it today in the paper. Why hasn't anyone made a thread about it? I don't have a link or anything, but it was an Assoc Press article. Check it out.

He shut down a radio station (I think?) that was in opposition to his many "reforms" ...he didn't like it, so ...he shut it down. Pretty good, huh?

Baron Max

 

[sandy]

He's done this before. He is an anti-America communist thug dictator. After he called President Bush the devil and snuggled up to Cindy Sheehan he lost any shred of credibility he ever dreamed to have.

I have to laugh when he calls capitalism the "road to hell." (The one economic system responsible for lifting more of the world's people out of poverty than any other in the history of mankind.)

I think we should tell him to take his oil and shove-ez it.

 

[§outh§tar]

*Yawn*

Is there any intelligent topic here to be discussed? Or shall we discuss the philosophical quandaries involved in 'shutting down' free speech?

 

[hypewaders]

Baron Max:"I don't have a link or anything, but it was an Assoc Press article."

Here's a few links on the story:

Free RCTV (Human Rights Foundation)

El Universal: Chávez uses improperly the authority to punish a broadcaster

Venezualanalysis: Is Free Speech Really at Stake? Venezuela and RCTV

RCTV announces "March of Silence" protest against license non-renewal

sandy: "He's done this before."

What specifically are you referring to?

"I think we should tell him to take his oil and shove-ez it."

That's 15% of US oil imports. How do you propose to replace that?

 

[sandy]

Shutting down media he doesn't like.

Drill ANWR, more in the gulf coast, and other oil-rich U.S. areas.

 

[hypewaders]

sandy: "He's done this before."

What specifically are you referring to?

"Shutting down media he doesn't like."

When? I wasn't aware.

"I think we should tell him to take his oil and shove-ez it."

That's 15% of US oil imports. How do you propose to replace that?

"Drill ANWR, more in the gulf coast, and other oil-rich U.S. areas."

There are no oil-rich U.S. areas. There is nothing in U.S. territory to compare with Venezuela's reserves.

 

[dixonmassey]

In the West, people are allowed "free barking" rights because it generally doesn't endanger power structure (or means anything, for that matter) + "democratic" propaganda, smearing&mind control are the best, no tyrant can't emulate them. However, at the time X, when free speach is getting dangerous to the establishment, the democratic West behaves like an Eastern Despot.

Considering, what "free speach" has become, I wouldn't be to excited that westerners have it. You have it, because you are powerless to change things cardinally with your free speach. VEnesuelans are much more speach impowered in that respect.

 

[sandy]

If we would have drilled ANWR when we originally wanted to, we would be fine by now. But nooooo, the enviro-wackos had to ruin everything.

 

[Brian Foley]

Yeah, I read it today in the paper. Why hasn't anyone made a thread about it? I don't have a link or anything, but it was an Assoc Press article. Check it out.

He shut down a radio station (I think?) that was in opposition to his many "reforms" ...he didn't like it, so ...he shut it down. Pretty good, huh?

Baron Max

Venezuelands march to support TV Station critical of Chavez
Tens of thousands of Venezuelans marched Saturday to support a TV station aligned with opponents of President Hugo Chavez, whose government plans to kick the channel off the air next week by not renewing its license.

That’s hitting the nail on the head – Worries about freedom of speech are nonsense, when you're talking about a television network's "license" to poison public debate by broadcasting lies into everyone's living rooms.
No the station was involved in the coup against him .
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED
The coup against Chavez in 2002 is unique in history, as the entire event was filmed from inside the presidential palace by documentary filmmakers . Their film can be watched on-line for free . After seeing it, you'll be amazed that he let RCTV off the hook at all.

Here is Chavez's reasons :
Quite a good read .

 

[hypewaders]

I'm not sure why you're defending Chavez' censorship of RCTV, Brian. It's a cowardly thing for Chavez to do.

sandy: "If we would have drilled ANWR when we originally wanted to, we would be fine by now. "

ANWR would yield a total of 10,360 million barrels over at least a decade of aggressive exploitation. Venezuela has 77.2 billion barrels and most of the requisite infrastructure already in place.

So, what you suggest is like replacing $100 with $.013, or about one tenth of a penny. After several years' development. That's not a very good deal, Sandy. Please think harder, and try again.

 

[Read-Only]

sandy: "If we would have drilled ANWR when we originally wanted to, we would be fine by now. "

ANWR would yield a total of 10,360 million barrels over at least a decade of aggressive exploitation. Venezuela has 77.2 billion barrels and most of the requisite infrastructure already in place.

So, what you suggest is like replacing $100 with $.013, or about one tenth of a penny. After several years' development. That's not a very good deal, Sandy. Please think harder, and try again.

I'm afraid you're asking for the impossible. ... I've asked her more than once to substantiate something she's posted - and got total silence.

 

[Brian Foley]

I'm not sure why you're defending Chavez' censorship of RCTV, Brian. It's a cowardly thing for Chavez to do.

There is no free press in this world as long as the media is privately owned , it cant be , there is the bias of ownership and interests . The station originally in January only had its licence to broadcast removed , all it has to do is reorganise and restructure itself and follow a non partisan policy of news reporting and it ould ofl got it back . You have to remember this tangle with this station has been going on for 4 years now , they have had ample opportunity to realign themselves . They cant blame anyone else bar them selves .

 

[Read-Only]

There is no free press in this world as long as the media is privately owned , it cant be , there is the bias of ownership and interests . The station originally in January only had its licence to broadcast removed , all it has to do is reorganise and restructure itself and follow a non partisan policy of news reporting and it ould ofl got it back . You have to remember this tangle with this station has been going on for 4 years now , they have had ample opportunity to realign themselves . They cant blame anyone else bar them selves .

And you think that somehow a government-operated press would be unbiased?????????? What planet do you live on, anyway?

 

[hypewaders]

"all it has to do is reorganise and restructure itself and follow a non partisan policy of news reporting and it ould ofl got it back".

What a load of crap. That's not even close to the freedoms of speech granted in most other countries.

"they have had ample opportunity to realign themselves"

The only legitimate reasons for "realignment" of public media come from public attention/inattention. Government interference is patent censorship. You know this.

"[RCTV] cant blame anyone else [but] themselves "

That's a ridiculous thing to say. RCTV has the support of a large Venezuelan viewership- about 30% of the entire Venezuelan TV audience.

 

[Brian Foley]

And you think that somehow a government-operated press would be unbiased?????????? What planet do you live on, anyway?

Who said a goverment controlled media ? What is proposed is a publically operated media free from goverment and private interest interference . That is a true free media .

What a load of crap. That's not even close to the freedoms of speech granted in most other countries.

Read the links I left about the station and its involvement in the coup .

The only legitimate reasons for "realignment" of public media come from public attention/inattention. Government interference is patent censorship. You know this.

The TV media will be a publically owned asset where administrators are selected by the public , a system where there is no govermental anor private ownership say . And I dont mean the US version of Public TV .

That's a ridiculous thing to say. RCTV has the support of a large Venezuelan viewership- about 30% of the entire Venezuelan TV audience.

You mean the opposition , the rightwing opposition that attempted to inflict an undemocratic coup on Chavez .

 

[Read-Only]

Who said a goverment controlled media ? What is proposed is a publically operated media free from goverment and private interest interference . That is a true free media .

The TV media will be a publically owned asset where administrators are selected by the public , a system where there is no govermental anor private ownership say . And I dont mean the US version of Public TV .

A "publically owned asset", eh? And exactly how does one accomplish this pipe dream?

 

[TW Scott]

There are no oil-rich U.S. areas. There is nothing in U.S. territory to compare with Venezuela's reserves.

Are you stupid? There is more Oil under Michigan than in Kuwait. Deposits we thought were empty in Texas are refilling. Anwr has more oil than Venezuel could imagine. Try talking to a real geologist.

 

[Read-Only]

Are you stupid? There is more Oil under Michigan than in Kuwait. Deposits we thought were empty in Texas are refilling. Anwr has more oil than Venezuel could imagine. Try talking to a real geologist.

Do you have even a shred of evidence to back up those outrageous claims?? If so, I'd sure like to see them!

 

[hypewaders]

Brian Foley: "Read the links I left about the station and its involvement in the coup."

I read them. I also watched The Revolution Wil Not Be Televised. You've provided absolutely nothing to refute that Chavez' shutdown of RCTV is blatant government censorship.

RCTV has the support of a large Venezuelan viewership- about 30% of the entire Venezuelan TV audience.

"You mean the opposition , the rightwing opposition that attempted to inflict an undemocratic coup on Chavez ."

No, Venezualans have mostly watched apolitical entertainment programming on RCTV, along with the thrice-daily news show. Polls report that about 70% of Venezuelans oppose the shutdown.

 

[hypewaders]

TW Scott: "There is more Oil under Michigan than in Kuwait. Deposits we thought were empty in Texas are refilling. Anwr has more oil than Venezuel could imagine. Try talking to a real geologist."

I know several geologists. I'm interested in petroleum reserve data. Here's a general rundown by nation:

Rank / Country /Proven Reserves (billion bbl)
1. Saudi Arabia 264.3
2. Canada 178.8
3. Iran 132.5
4. Iraq 115.0
5. Kuwait 101.5
6. United Arab Emirates 97.8
7. Venezuela 79.7
8. Russia 60.0
9. Libya 39.1
10. Nigeria 35.9
11. United States 21.4
12. China 18.3
13. Qatar 15.2
14. Mexico 12.9
15. Algeria 11.4
16. Brazil 11.2
17. Kazakhstan 9.0
18. Norway 7.7
19. Azerbaijan 7.0
20. India 5.8

Please substantiate your statements above. They wildly contradict generally-accepted data.