Can humans know the divine, without the divine's aid?
- Thread starter wynn
- Start date
Generally, it means 'Godly, having to do with God'.
However, I haven't specified it any further, expecting issues of definition that will be precisely what the discussion will be about.
Namely, my position is that what we think we can know of God and of the godly, simultaneously has to do with what we think God and the godly are.
So there are two variables simultaneously at issue here.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Ok, then I will introduce my own definition of 'divine':
Divine - The supernatural that is characterized by good, as opposed to being characterized by evil.
No, as the divine is supernatural it is impossible to perceive.
It has to be shown to exist first, which is impossible by definition.
'Supernatural', to me, has the same meaning as 'nonexistent'.
Supernatural - Something that exists outside of nature.
It seems to be a logical fallacy to me.
snake river rufus
Registered Senior Member
If there is a "god",,, he/she/it needs to show itself
1. There is no such thing as divine. Its pure bs like enlightenment. People made it up to cover their ignorance.
2. Human knowledge based on information received by the senses cannot be put into any words in any language with scientific accuracy. And all information learned from other sources would keep you away from being intelligent because its half cooked information in the form of some language from another individual.
3. There is no such thing as human mind. There is brain and that's all to it. And every information acquired by our senses are processed automatically even before you realize it. What we do forcefully(commonly known as thinking) is only pattern matching.
Supernatural is not a word.
IF there are gods, they could be hiding from us.
IF there are gods who want humans to know they exist, they're doing a poor job of letting humans know. Seems they get off playing mind games with less powerful beings
IF there are gods, they obviously don't want me to know they exist.
I've put out a challenge to any & all gods to meet me behind the school for a fight but evidently they're all cowards.
WHY is it ASSUMED that any gods are good???
IF there are gods, they could be hiding from us.
IF there are gods who want humans to know they exist, they're doing a poor job of letting humans know. Seems they get off playing mind games with less powerful beings
IF there are gods, they obviously don't want me to know they exist.
I've put out a challenge to any & all gods to meet me behind the school for a fight but evidently they're all cowards.
WHY is it ASSUMED that any gods are good???
supernatural is a word. Is life not an adequate indicator of a creator? And if you believe that life formed in a puddle during a lightning storm then you are blessed with the ability of strong faith.
Careful for what you wish for with that schoolyard thing.
Do you not find life good?
Supplant recognize with know and I would say yes.
If there are ghosts, they are part of nature. If there are not ghosts, they can't be designated as natural or not natural. If there are aliens visting Earth, they are part of nature. If aliens do not exist, they can't be designated as natural or not natural. If gods exist, they are part of nature. If gods don't exist, they can't be designated as natural or not natural.
Supernatural doesn't mean anything. Words have meaning.
Obviously not. Isn't a creator an adequate indicator of a creator of the creator?
I don't know how life began. Neither do you.
Why???
Irrelevant & irrevelant.
snake river rufus
Registered Senior Member
Have you ever seen lightning?
Have you ever seen a puddle?
These things exist. May we see your god now?
why speak of the knowing the divine?
Living entities can't know anything without the divine's aid, simply because they exist in a constitutional position of eternal dependence
One could surmise the existence of the divine in such a fashion, but in terms of direct perception (or revelation) it is completely dependent on the will of god ... much like the average joe's chance of rubbing shoulders with the president is completely dependent on the will of the president
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Your god is completely dependent on the will of its god.
Since there is no divine and yet some still claim to know it, I would call the answer obviously yes.
I looked up 'nature' and one meaning for it is, basically, everything that is. Non-discriminatory. But supernatural is a word which does mean something, something outside of 'everything that is'. This of course is impossible, if you use the definition for 'nature', as you are. Basically a terminology difference that I will concede to you, meaning I see your point .
What is the meaning of this sentence: "supernatural doesn't mean anything. Words have meaning."
ok.
sometimes you get what you wish for, so you might want to be careful when doing it. it would probably work out in the end, though.
what, your understanding of good?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Ok, I agree with this to some extent. Words mean whatever they are defined to mean, they don't have to make sense.
It can't be defined to mean anything if it doesn't make sense.
If the dictionary says burmolne is a square triangle, the writer(s) & editor(s) are being just plain stupid & foolish & I would proclaim "Burmolne is NOT a word".
If the dictionary says burmolne is a square triangle, the writer(s) & editor(s) are being just plain stupid & foolish & I would proclaim "Burmolne is NOT a word".