Bush: Chosen to lead in the end times?

m0rl0ck

Consume! Conform! Obey!
Registered Senior Member
As I understand the idea, armageddon means kill them all and let god sort them out, correct?

"The evil one is among us."
--George W. Bush

http://www.alternet.org/print.html?StoryID=14364

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=190

"This strange cross-fertilization between cultures has placed us in the situation in which the current administration and Radical Islam share a common worldview in which peace descends after Evil is defeated in an apocalyptic battle. Both parties sing the same song: God will lead our warriors to victory against the forces of darkness."
"



Remember kiddies a vote for Georgie is a vote for Jehovah :)
 
Originally posted by m0rl0ck
"The evil one is among us."
--George W. Bush
"This strange cross-fertilization between cultures has placed us in the situation in which the current administration and Radical Islam share a common worldview in which peace descends after Evil is defeated in an apocalyptic battle. Both parties sing the same song: God will lead our warriors to victory against the forces of darkness."
That's an awful lot to extrapolate from a single sentence. While I too have problems with GW's apparently simplistic view of global politics it seems to me to be a rather obvious backlash against the previous eight years when we bought into a sly huckster who could charm the pants off an Eskimo and seemed to dance his way around every issue. So now we have someone who presents every issue as black and white, good and evil. Politics has primarily become PR (if it was ever anything else), the advertising aimed (as most is) at the lowest common denominator intended solely to reach the broadest possible audience. Unfortunately we seem to buy into it rather unquestioningly, jumping on whatever bandwagon most appeals to us without actually addressing the details that make up the situation. The problem lies not with the leaders but with the followers without whom they would be nothing more than soapbox orators.

~Raithere
 
I had a dream that washington gets blown up on 7th may this year,i dreamt a mixture of things,news reports,a nuclear attack and saw a mushroom cloud on the telly,one perspective was where i was there although watching it out my window and on the telly at the same time,7th may was the date,it was very vivid
and quiet frightning,i woke up and felt really shaken and ill.
I dont live in the US so it was definitly portrayed as a tv report big event even though the dream went kinda in and out from perspectives,it suggested something was gonna happen on that date.

Just goes to show how some of this shit can give you nightmares,im not the entirely sensitive type but all this war shit can worry you.

Theres only 2 days till the date in my dream and i cant help but feel uncertain about that date even though i dont believe in all that mystical shit.
 
Originally posted by edgar
what do u mean to lead what? how?
Please rephrase the question I've no idea what it is you're asking.

~Raithere
 
o well nm the question. interestin dream doom.
welll i had a dream about anti-christ...and how it was my next door neighbor. ill tell it later....
 
¿Insert title here?

While I too have problems with GW's apparently simplistic view of global politics it seems to me to be a rather obvious backlash against the previous eight years when we bought into a sly huckster who could charm the pants off an Eskimo and seemed to dance his way around every issue. So now we have someone who presents every issue as black and white, good and evil.
An excellent point, but one which I would polish by implying that Bush puts a bunch of gray blobs in front of us, tells us which are black and which are white, and expects us to believe it. It's a subtle difference, but I think the black/white issue is more dynamic than the phrase usually implies.°

Nonetheless, your post puts me in mind of the video game Deus Ex; I actually got my CD back from someone so I could play it and enjoy a scene in which your character argues with a Hong Kong bartender challenges the nature of the US government: A society organized around the lowest qualities in people will produce those same qualities in its leaders.

But I do think the end of the last decade was a matter of rushing toward Apocalypse. Think of it this way: We had an election between two political dynasties (Bush & Gore), a major standoff in the Middle East that has Americans fearing Apocalypse, and even our business community declared that the End Was Nigh (Y2k) ... a mad rush toward Apocalypse.

Which is an interesting lead-in:
Politics has primarily become PR (if it was ever anything else), the advertising aimed (as most is) at the lowest common denominator intended solely to reach the broadest possible audience. Unfortunately we seem to buy into it rather unquestioningly, jumping on whatever bandwagon most appeals to us without actually addressing the details that make up the situation.
On the one hand, this is a terrible but unavoidable indictment of my neighbors in the sense that I think very poorly of them for needing bandwagons and crutches. But I also think that the condition is reflective of our half of the religious/apocalyptic stirrings. "Let us pray to Jesus Christ on behalf of American diversity ...."

When it was a Religious Tolerance Act in the seventeenth century, I understood the shortcomings of Christian theocentrism in public policy. But it's 2003 ... I can't accept it by the same criteria, and it doesn't make much sense.

Someone bombed the World Trade Center? Be afraid, but take comfort: God is on our side. The space shuttle explodes? Well, our only comfort is Bible passages. We go out to war? Let us celebrate the prophets of the Old Testament ....

The flock has been truly fleeced ...

Notes:

° black, white, and shades of gray - Would it complicate things too much if I implied that Bush also pushed the existential limit and we actually have cause to doubt whether or not the gray blobs are real in the first place?


:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

Edit: Just aiming for a more consistent context, a minor change that most won't notice.
 
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Originally posted by tiassa
It's a subtle difference, but I think the black/white issue is more dynamic than the phrase usually implies ... Bush also pushed the existential limit and we actually have cause to doubt whether or not the gray blobs are real in the first place?)
Most certainly. And while I accused Clinton specifically they are all prone to hucksterism. Politics has always reminded me of a game of three card monty, except that there are more dealers and more cards.

so I could play it and enjoy a scene in which your character argues with a Hong Kong bartender challenges the nature of the US government: A society organized around the lowest qualities in people will produce those same qualities in its leaders.
The subtle voice of reason always puts a grin on my face. Just keep perching on people's shoulders and whispering in their ears.

But I do think the end of the last decade was a matter of rushing toward Apocalypse.
But we've supposedly been rushing towards the Apocalypse since the beginning of history. I cannot think of a culture offhand that does not have some immanent apocalyptic vision. As with most 'religious' accretions I feel that this is simply a projection of our inner selves. The world is not about to end, we are. But projecting this knowledge onto the world at large gives us an emotional buffer for dealing with it. It also recognizes that none of us are alone in facing this fact; we are all going to die.

But I also think that the condition is reflective of our half of the religious/apocalyptic stirrings. "Let us pray to Jesus Christ on behalf of American diversity ...."
...
But it's 2003 ... I can't accept it by the same criteria, and it doesn't make much sense.
...
The flock has been truly fleeced ...
To an extent I must agree with Hobbes and accept the social contract; after all, this is what government is for. In order to have public works we must sacrifice some measure of freedom. Still it seems as if the means has become the end. Politics becomes not a means to consolidate a group effort but an end to itself; religion becomes an institution (and I wonder how many realize what an oxymoron that is)?

~Raithere
 
Rushing to post @ 4:19 pm ... er ... (Insert title here)

But we've supposedly been rushing towards the Apocalypse since the beginning of history.
However, I do wonder about the difference between simply traipsing blindly toward Apocalypse and making a specific point of it. I mean, if you slip and fall into the Grand Canyon, is it the same thing as taking an intentional flying leap into the Abyss?

I agree that people have been rushing toward Apocalypse since before the idea of Apocalypse arose. But if we look at Apocalypse as a theoretical result, we come back to analogies:

- Result: Joe is dead.
- Possible cause 1: Joe overdosed on heroin
- Possible cause 2: Somebody overdosed Joe with heroin

Are the possible causes the same?

- Result: Humanity is extinct.
- Possible cause 1: A comet struck the Earth, rendering it inhospitable to human life
- Possible cause 2: Circumstances of human institutions failed to prevent a massive epidemic from critically wounding humanity's ability to survive
- Possible cause 3: People chose to fight until someone finally started nuking the planet

We might then examine in what way acts of deliberation (e.g. war, murder) equate to failures to prevent (overdose, epidemic), or to accidents of circumstance (comet).

And when we consider that humanity has been rushing toward the idea of Apocalypse, I would ask that you consider that the Apocalypse I saw Americans at least rushing toward was definitively according to premillenarian superstitions I picked up throughout my upbringing. The factors I noted all come from a bizarre Judeo-Christian notion that, for all the exposure I had to it as a child, I cannot find an advocate of today. Of course, since we're past the year 2000 ...

Hey, do you remember a Korean sect that declared Judgment Day to be coming in October, 1993 ...? I mean, I knew a couple of Americans who spent the day in question in their dorm rooms in prayer on the basis of a wingnut pseudo-Christian cult ... people are praying for the end of the world. I suppose in that sense I should not be surprised that Christian and post-Christian America produced a pseudo-Christian millenarian rush toward idiocy.
It also recognizes that none of us are alone in facing this fact; we are all going to die.
Where I disagree with many, and perhaps you might here agree with me, is that I don't find this to be any reason to hurry the process along. Addiction ... now that is a good reason to rush it along. (Phack! Phone calls from my mother and from my partner ... I officially need a cigarette. Yes, it's true, and yes, it's convenient for illustrating the point. So ... yeah. Er ...)
To an extent I must agree with Hobbes and accept the social contract; after all, this is what government is for . In order to have public works we must sacrifice some measure of freedom.
I go more with Rousseau's Contrat Social, which "propounds a doctrine which already had a long history in the struggle against the older view of the divine right of kings, namely, that government gets its authority over us by a willing consent on our part, not by the authorization of God. " (The boldfaced portion, of course, is also reflected in the Declaration of Independence.)

People often point to the sacrifice of freedom for the public good, but in my time the idea has been marred by conservatives who saw rights such as free speech and religion, the right to Life and Liberty, and even the Pursuit of Happiness (in other words, the reasons we have this country in the first place) to be subordinate to political and economic concerns. The sacrifices people are being asked to make are not those which will bring them the greatest real benefit, but merely those which bring the superficial appearance of benefit.

I admit that I'm left with the possibly erroneous notion that you're advising that the fleecing is what government is for, but I'm pretty sure that I'm wrong in that. Rather, it is fair to say that I'm not sure what it is you say government is for. However, to carry on despite my contextual confusion:
Still it seems as if the means has become the end.
Which leads me to a number of those dualistic questions that I usually ask people. For instance:

- Do governments exist for the benefit of the people, or do people exist to serve governments?
- Is "economy" a device for the benefit of the people, or do people exist to serve the economy?

(That second point arose during the first Clinton term, as the country spent orgiastically, piling up consumer debts while desperately trying to keep the economy afloat, only to be saved by the Netscape Revolution.)
Politics becomes not a means to consolidate a group effort but an end to itself; religion becomes an institution (and I wonder how many realize what an oxymoron that is)?
Well, depending on your opinion of how microcosmically accurate Sciforums is or has been in its interparadigmatic dynamics, we might speculate that, among the religious, very few realize it.

I honestly think it has something to do with the (asserted) fact that Americans, at least, suffer such information overload that the data which represent the reasons "society" or "civilization" are good ideas have simply gotten stowed away somewhere in the cellar to be forgotten until the great-grandchildren stumble across a treasure-trove in a musty steamer chest.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
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