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Burden of the working man
- Thread starter fishtail
- Start date
These people have to be provided for out of our taxes, why?
It's because of all the fuckin' lilly-livered, doo-gooder liberals in your government, that's why!
The world made out just fine for gazillions of years of human existence without government handouts, yet now governments feel the need to give money to people just for the asking!
When I see articles like you posted, I always wonder why they didn't post the info on available jobs at the same time. In the USA, we have want ads in the paper with thousands of jobs listed, yet there still unemployed people getting handouts?! Why not get them one of those jobs instead?
I'm tellin' ya' ....it's the fuckin' lilly-livered, doo-gooder liberals that's gonna' be the downfall of every civilization in the world. ..if we continue to allow them to set policy.
Baron Max
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Alot of truely earth-shifting art, theatre, discourse, and prose has been written by people signing-on.
Its not an excuse for it, but it is something to think about. Time is the greatest commodity there is, if we (collectively) can buy up other peoples time and get great art in return then i am personally not going to quibble.
Its also (it probably goes without saying) an invaluable saftey net for people in between jobs, or people whove suffered mental and physical upheavel.
Its not an excuse for it, but it is something to think about. Time is the greatest commodity there is, if we (collectively) can buy up other peoples time and get great art in return then i am personally not going to quibble.
Its also (it probably goes without saying) an invaluable saftey net for people in between jobs, or people whove suffered mental and physical upheavel.
It's because of all the fuckin' lilly-livered, doo-gooder liberals in your government, that's why!
The world made out just fine for gazillions of years of human existence without government handouts, yet now governments feel the need to give money to people just for the asking!
When I see articles like you posted, I always wonder why they didn't post the info on available jobs at the same time. In the USA, we have want ads in the paper with thousands of jobs listed, yet there still unemployed people getting handouts?! Why not get them one of those jobs instead?
I'm tellin' ya' ....it's the fuckin' lilly-livered, doo-gooder liberals that's gonna' be the downfall of every civilization in the world. ..if we continue to allow them to set policy.
Baron Max
you relize some people are icapable of going to work i no people like that it doesn't matter if they want to or not they are truely unable to go to work what about them
you relize some people are icapable of going to work i no people like that it doesn't matter if they want to or not they are truely unable to go to work what about them
The ones that are incapable of work i have no problem with. having said that, there are many hiding under this umbrella, disablement has so many levels.
The ones that are incapable of work i have no problem with. having said that, there are many hiding under this umbrella, disablement has so many levels.
yeah many people cant work, but there are a number of people who claim D.L.A and Incapacity benefit when they are not ill or sick, its not hard to fool the goverment to beliveing your sick, but many people want to work but simply can not, and it has nothing to do with the lilly livered liberals in this country either.
Because to take down American culture government has to break down the family with divorce and lax morality. After that they have to provide for single parents who can't provide for themselves and their children, as well as poor illegal immigrants who move here.
Mothers get paid not to have a man in the house. Its basic economics for alot of poor people. Who benefits?
Mothers get paid not to have a man in the house. Its basic economics for alot of poor people. Who benefits?
Because to take down American culture government has to break down the family with divorce and lax morality. After that they have to provide for single parents who can't provide for themselves and their children, as well as poor illegal immigrants who move here.
Mothers get paid not to have a man in the house. Its basic economics for alot of poor people. Who benefits?
they do not get paid for not having a man in the house, they get paid, (which by the way the money is a small amount compared to a working mother) to look after her child/ren,
there are not enouther incentives to get the single mothers back into work, at the minute, it is better for them to stay at home, because to get a childminder it will cost them mos of they wages, after school clubs are expensive (somtimes hitting the £5.00 an eveing per child mark) and breakfast club can cost £4.00 a day per child. so until the goverment does somthing to help these single mums and dads there's not a lot they can do to improve they're situation
Alot of truely earth-shifting art, theatre, discourse, and prose has been written by people signing-on.
Its not an excuse for it, but it is something to think about. Time is the greatest commodity there is, if we (collectively) can buy up other peoples time and get great art in return then i am personally not going to quibble.
Its also (it probably goes without saying) an invaluable saftey net for people in between jobs, or people whove suffered mental and physical upheavel.
And it continues to go without saying...
But what handouts took place in the Reniassance other than a few lonely dowagers doting on people like Van Gogh, Frederic Chopin, and Peter Tschaikovsky? A priviledged few to say the least.
Time truly is a great commodity, when used.
Most of all the great artists of the Ren. worked their asses off. I think the presence of art can be correlated to a wide variety of influences, and that handouts and spare time, if they appear at all, are way down at the bottom of the list.
I posit enlightenment, education, initiative, freedom, liberty, morality, happiness, and appeciation as more influencial to art than hand-outs and spare time.
..., but many people want to work but simply can not, ...
That's what families and friends are for ....NOT the government!
...and it has nothing to do with the lilly livered liberals in this country either.
I disagree ...government handouts are a direct result of the lilly-livered liberals in this nation. That's what lilly-livered liberals do ....take money from those who have it, and give it to others!
Baron Max
That's what families and friends are for ....NOT the government!
I disagree ...government handouts are a direct result of the lilly-livered liberals in this nation. That's what lilly-livered liberals do ....take money from those who have it, and give it to others!
Baron Max
we pay our taxes for goverment help, what if you've got no family, should the children be taken into care, away from they're mum and dad?
what if you have an accident and cannot work? should you have to work even thouhg your not suppose to?
we pay our taxes for goverment help,...
Taxes aren't, or shouldn't be, for private, personal "help". Taxes have always been for the basic infrastructure of societies, not to give handouts to the needy ....that's always been, and should be, a private source like church charities, private giving, and such. The government should have no role in stealing from those that have money, and giving it to those who might need it.
... what if you've got no family, should the children be taken into care, away from they're mum and dad?
Savings; friends; church charities; private help agencies;...AND ...lilly-livered liberals who should be perfectly willing to live up to their ideals!
...what if you have an accident and cannot work? should you have to work even thouhg your not suppose to?
Insurance; family; friends; church charities; private help agencies; ...AND... lilly-livered liberals who should be perfectly willing to live up to their ideals!
Let me ask you, ...what did people do in the good ol' days before such government handouts? Think about it, for gazillions of years people didn't have lilly-livered governments to give them handouts ...what did they do then? How did the world survive before the handouts?
Baron Max
Taxes aren't, or shouldn't be, for private, personal "help". Taxes have always been for the basic infrastructure of societies, not to give handouts to the needy ....that's always been, and should be, a private source like church charities, private giving, and such. The government should have no role in stealing from those that have money, and giving it to those who might need it.
Savings; friends; church charities; private help agencies;...AND ...lilly-livered liberals who should be perfectly willing to live up to their ideals!
Insurance; family; friends; church charities; private help agencies; ...AND... lilly-livered liberals who should be perfectly willing to live up to their ideals!
Let me ask you, ...what did people do in the good ol' days before such government handouts? Think about it, for gazillions of years people didn't have lilly-livered governments to give them handouts ...what did they do then? How did the world survive before the handouts?
Baron Max
oh please Baron,
for years we have had help with benefits like SSP, DLA, what do you think of the people who claim Disability Living Allowance? most of those people cannot work.
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Im not saying that 'hand outs' are essential for a society to produce great art, it simply helps it all along the wayAnd it continues to go without saying...
But what handouts took place in the Reniassance other than a few lonely dowagers doting on people like Van Gogh, Frederic Chopin, and Peter Tschaikovsky? A priviledged few to say the least.
Time truly is a great commodity, when used.
Most of all the great artists of the Ren. worked their asses off. I think the presence of art can be correlated to a wide variety of influences, and that handouts and spare time, if they appear at all, are way down at the bottom of the list.
I posit enlightenment, education, initiative, freedom, liberty, morality, happiness, and appeciation as more influencial to art than hand-outs and spare time.
Ive lost count of the number of books ive read in which musicians, playwrights and artists when asked how they supported themselves at the time have uniformly answered with 'oh i was on the dole'.
Of course if youre lucky you can get a grant, and some do, one of my favourite producers in fact secured a government grant to help him make his art. Although for alot of artists it continues to be much easier to sign on than to apply for a grant out right.
Not really what its *supposed* to be used for, but as i said definitely something to think about.
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Why should the law be altered simply because it offends your minority sensiblities?Taxes aren't, or shouldn't be, for private, personal "help". Taxes have always been for the basic infrastructure of societies, not to give handouts to the needy ....that's always been, and should be, a private source like church charities, private giving, and such. The government should have no role in stealing from those that have money, and giving it to those who might need it.
wasnt this ironically your whole argument against gay marriage?
the 'laws the law' and reflects the opinions of the masses and is therefore beyond refute - majority rules im afraid.
Look at any urbanised indian city if you want to see what a society without a welfare net actually looks like - old men on crutches begging along with the mental ill, the physically disabled, and the young.Let me ask you, ...what did people do in the good ol' days before such government handouts? Think about it, for gazillions of years people didn't have lilly-livered governments to give them handouts ...what did they do then? How did the world survive before the handouts?
Perhaps its time you faced up to the stark reality of your own ideals, since youre always claiming thats what all the smelly hypocritical liberals should do.
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How did the world survive before the handouts?
Baron Max
Robin Hood?
Robin Hood?
we were allowed to go hunting, and picking fruit and such from free land, now there is no such thing has free land anymore so hunting and fruit picking with a licence ismt permitted
Look at any urbanised indian city if you want to see what a society without a welfare net actually looks like - old men on crutches begging along with the mental ill, the physically disabled, and the young.
So ...in that Indian city, where are all the lilly-livered liberals who seem so intent on helping all those unfortunate people? Why don't they help? Why don't the families help? Where are the church organizations?
Perhaps its time you faced up to the stark reality of your own ideals, since youre always claiming thats what all the smelly hypocritical liberals should do.
I face up to my ideals quite well. But you, and most others, on the other hand, pretend to care so much, yet what you're actually trying to do is to FORCE all other people to do something that you won't do yourself.
If this forum is any indication, there are about a gazillion free-spending, whinning, cry-baby liberals, and perhaps two or three of us "freedom fighters". So with those numbers, why do you see it necessary to FORCE me to support the unfortunate people of the world?
Y'all liberals should be able to do it easily if you'd just live up to your high n' mighty ideals. But you don't, do you? Why? I live up to my ideals, why can't liberals live up to theirs and help all those people without being forced to do so?
Baron Max
..., what do you think of the people who claim Disability Living Allowance? most of those people cannot work.
So ...people can breed babies, but they don't have to take care of them? And they can breed more babies after they shove the disabled off onto the charity of the government?
The government has become a substitute for personal responsibility. Why do I see that as ...wrong?
Baron Max
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Ive no idea what 'lilly-livered liberals' youre even talking about, if youre trying to characterise the entire notion of liberalism with the fringe-loonism that passes as liberalism in the states then youre off on the wrong foot already.So ...in that Indian city, where are all the lilly-livered liberals who seem so intent on helping all those unfortunate people? Why don't they help? Why don't the families help? Where are the church organizations?
You seem to think liberalism is all political correctness and false hypocracy, it isnt. Thats just people being arses, and its got absolutely nothing to do with political persuasion.
To answer your second question, pretty much every empoverished nation on earth has aid agencies tirelessly slogging their guts out for next to nothing, but thats entirely secondary to the original point.
The original point was, without an efficient welfare structure in the US youd have to walk to work or to the store/bar passing cripples, the mentally handicapped, the elderly all begging for change along your way.
This is the thing that social darwinsts always seem to forget, they construct themselves a fantasy world in which all the unable simply disappear, or quietly die in a corner once the welfare state is revoked.
When in fact the streets would be absolutely over-run with people begging for change.
And who exactly would you expect to sort out that little mess? - set up the soup kitchens, set up shelters, ah yes it would be those pesky do-gooders wouldnt it.
I really dont honestly know what youre talking about at this point, we're talking about the pluses and minuses of a welfare state, noone in this thread is *forcing* you to help others except your own government through taxation.I face up to my ideals quite well. But you, and most others, on the other hand, pretend to care so much, yet what you're actually trying to do is to FORCE all other people to do something that you won't do yourself.
If this forum is any indication, there are about a gazillion free-spending, whinning, cry-baby liberals, and perhaps two or three of us "freedom fighters". So with those numbers, why do you see it necessary to FORCE me to support the unfortunate people of the world?
Youre projecting all your angst at entirely the wrong people, noone on this board takes a slice of wages to put towards welfare thats the government man. If you dont like that take it up with them.
I think the main problem here is youre lumping all liberals together as this faceless homogeneous mass and demanding answers from it.Y'all liberals should be able to do it easily if you'd just live up to your high n' mighty ideals. But you don't, do you? Why? I live up to my ideals, why can't liberals live up to theirs and help all those people without being forced to do so?
Baron Max
Noone is going to reply to questions like that because theyre utterally meaningless, its like me berating a black person in the street about the violence in hiphop.
It will have absolutely nothing to do with him, just as your perceived 'liberal hypocracy' has nothing to do with me.
Its all just blind projection, and you should know that constantly assuming disbelief at anyones ability to help and empower others says far more about your own psyche than it does anyone elses.