btimsah's "conversation with John Debunker".

[Silas]

astronomyiscool.blogspot.com


First of all, if btimsah asks me to take this down, I'm taking it down. Please do not post if you're only going to mock, that would not be not fair on btimsah, who posted it on his own site but not here. I have not done this to ambush him.

Host: Hello and thanks for being here.

Debunker: I have no doubt you think I am here.

Host: Are you saying I'm not here?

Debunker: No. I'm saying you believe that I am.

Host: Okay.. So what do you make of the abduction thing?

Debunker: Sleep paralysis.

Host: Really? What about when people wake up with markings and claim they were never dreaming?

Debunker: Sleep paralysis. (snoring) Zzzzzz...

Host: John? Wakeup!

Debunker: Sorry, I was having sleep paralysis.

Host: Were you abducted? No, nevermind that. What do you make of videos and photos of UFO's?

Debunker: Sleep par - OH! Ufo's? Hoax or something mundane and easily explainable.

Host: What about cases which are unexplainable - even by government officials?

Debunker: Even the government can be fooled. It's something mundane and easily explainable.

Host: Let's say there was a case involving a UFO sighting, abduction, debris and video of the event. What would you say then?

Debunker: Well, the UFO sighting was a mistake or hoax. The abduction was (you guessed it) sleep paralysis. The video was a hoax or mistake. All of this was done, during sleep paralysis.

Host: Are you serious?

Debunker: Yes. I'm a debunker. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO PROVE. You do. The burden of proof is on you!

Host: Uh.. Okay.. Do you ever believe anecdotal evidence?

Debunker: Only when it supports something mundane.

Host: So when someone says, I saw a tornado - you don't believe them?

Debunker: No - If the evidence is there - I'll believe them.

Host: How do you know they did not fake the tornado? Tore up their own land? Faked the video of it?

Debunker: Because, they are photographed all the time. We know they exist. People see them.

Host: The same can be said of UFO's and aliens.​

 

[Silas]

And my reply as follows:

Host: Okay.. So what do you make of the abduction thing?

Debunker: Sleep paralysis.

Host: Really? What about when people wake up with markings and claim they were never dreaming?"

Let's leave aside the claim that they were never dreaming. I personally have suffered from sleep paralysis and I am aware how realistic it sometimes feels. But "experiences" over and above you just lying in bed are in fact forms of dreams, that can occur (I can testify) even if the paralysed person has their eyes open. I also have all sorts of strange marks on my body, some of which appear overnight, but which I do not find the need to postulate aliens to explain. More likely bedbugs.

Host: "What do you make of videos and photos of UFO's?

Debunker: Sleep par - OH! Ufo's? Hoax or something mundane and easily explainable.

Host: What about cases which are unexplainable - even by government officials?"

I wouldn't believe government officials whatever their explanation was. On the other hand, "We have no explanation" does not mean "It was aliens". I personally have never seen a UFO photograph that could not have been an ordinary aircraft, taken at such a large distance that it just becomes a circular area of light reflected off metal (also generally pixellated by video resolution). Or a hubcap. Please link me to genuinely anomalous photographs, or these "unexplained by government officials" cases.

Host: Let's say there was a case involving a UFO sighting, abduction, debris and video of the event. What would you say then?"

No, Robert, you actually have to PROVIDE such a case. What you're basically saying is "What if everything happened in exactly the same way as would if there were a real abduction by real aliens that left real evidence." But there are no such cases, so the evidence does not exist to be examined.

Host: Uh.. Okay.. Do you ever believe anecdotal evidence?

Debunker: Only when it supports something mundane.

Host: So when someone says, I saw a tornado - you don't believe them?

Debunker: No - If the evidence is there - I'll believe them.

Host: How do you know they did not fake the tornado? Tore up their own land? Faked the video of it?

Debunker: Because, they are photographed all the time. We know they exist. People see them.

Host: The same can be said of UFO's and aliens.

No, it cannot. Eventually enough evidence accrued for rocks having fallen from the sky (something Benjamin Franklin didn't believe in), and now we know that they do, all the time. But the technology of recording, the technology of transmission has vastly improved since those times. It was easy to disbelieve in rocks falling from the sky, when accurate analysis of rocks was not readily available. Now every university has some meteorite in it. But where are the alien ship parts we're supposed to be seeing?

 

[btimsah]

I need to get this in before SF crashes...

I need to append your debunking to the end of this conversation.. I think it helps drive home the point.

 

[Xevious]

The major problem in the end is that UFO's represent not an imprical, but a transient phenomenon. Transient phenomenons DO exist. Ball lightning is a big example. The problem is, no one knows how ball lightning forms, travels, dissapates, or what even causes it to appear in the first place. But we think it exists, nonetheless.

What it comes down to in the end is where people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[phlogistician]

Host: Let's say there was a case involving a UFO sighting, abduction, debris and video of the event. What would you say then?

Ah, wouldn't it be lovely if we did get that much evidence! A good video would be a start. A few reliable witnesses would be great. Getting both together, fantastic. I mean that last bit literally, btw!