BRIC+ News & comments

"... HP CEO Meg Whitman is telling the company's India workers that they won't be hit by HP's plans to cuts its global workforce. Earlier this year, HP announced plans to cut its workforce by 27,000 employees by 2014, or about 8% of its approximately 350,000 employees. One report said that about 9,000 of those workers would be in the U.S.

In India, Whitman was interviewed by the Economic Times, and said this: "We are not reducing our workforce in India. We have announced a global workforce reduction, but India will stay largely intact, because we not only have all our business units here, but also our R&D and back office." ..." From: http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...man_says?source=CTWNLE_nlt_dailyam_2012-08-14
 
China may essentially keep the one child per woman on average, by dramatic cultural change, not law:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-22/chinas-leftover-ladies-are-anything-but said:
".. 7 percent of college-educated women in Shanghai remain single at age 45—“a significant change from the past,” he emphasizes. Wang calculates that in urban China the number of never-married women ages 25 to 34 is about 7 million. ... Seventy-six percent of Chinese women surveyed in 2011 by the New York-based Center for Talent Innovation said they “aspire to top jobs,” vs. 52 percent of Americans. Chinese women employed by multinational companies frequently work more than 70 hours a week. ... women marry up, in terms of income and status. The older and more accomplished a Chinese woman is, the narrower her potential dating pool, ... As the country continues to urbanize and more women have expanded career opportunities, Wang expects that China will follow the pattern of other East Asian countries, including Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore, where the trend of women delaying or forgoing marriage is even more pronounced. ...

Delayed or forgone marriage does not necessarily mean less sex. According to CASS professor Li, the percentage of young women in Beijing who were sexually experienced before their weddings in 1989 was just 15 percent. Today it is between 60 percent and 70 percent. “There are more different kinds of relationships—and over time parents gradually have less influence.” .."
It ain´t the prudish China of a decade ago anymore. As article also notes, these well-off single women are a large growing market for personal items - part of why China is world´s leading market for top-of-the-line, brand-name, luxury goods.

From another source: Half of all the world´s female billionaires are Chinese women!
 
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Single digit GDP growth only along the cost where labor costs are higher. Roughly speaking the sum of GDP growth plus annual salaries increase is about 30% through out China. In the US, this sum is about zero or slightly negative in some depressed areas.
http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/weekly/2012-08/24/content_15702295.htm said:
".. Of the five regions with the highest growth rates last year - Chong-qing, Tianjin, Guizhou, Sichuan and Inner Mongolia - four are located in western China. By contrast, the five regions with the lowest growth rates - Beijing, Shanghai, Zhejiang, Guangdong and Shandong - are all on the east coast.

These regional growth variations will help to narrow the gap between east and west in China. In fact, per capita income in Shanghai (the highest in the country) was 9.2 times as high as that in Guizhou (the lowest) in 2005. This had dropped to five times in 2011, according to the National Bureau of Statistics.

Several factors have contributed to the better growth performance in western China. First, since the launch of the go-west campaign in 1999, massive resources have been diverted to the western regions. Empirical evidence shows that capital accumulation in western China has accelerated in recent years.

The second factor is due to the relocation of manufacturing activities from the coastal areas to the inland and western regions. Statistics show that western China accounted for 18.8 percent of national industrial value-added last year, while this figure was 13.9 percent in 2000. This is a significant development.

During the same period, the six central provinces had gained in industrial-output share (from 19.1 percent to 21.3 percent). Thus, manufacturing activities are shifting westward probably because of rising wages and the subsequent labor shortage in the coastal area.

Third, tourism is booming in western China. For example, Sichuan province recorded the highest growth among the 31 regions in 2011; domestic and foreign tourist arrivals in Sichuan grew by 67.7 percent and 51.7 percent, respectively. Significant growth was also observed in Chongqing, Gansu, Shaanxi, Tibet and Yunnan. .."
A small part of the shift westward of manufacturing is also due to fact domestic consumption of factory products (cell phones, TVs, clothes, motor bikes, etc.) is increasing faster than exports so being near a port is now less important, especially as the internal rail network is rapidly improving.
 
http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-08/27/content_15706878.htm said:
“.. An increasing number of companies in Wenzhou, {coastal China} a key manufacturing and export region, have gone out of business, … Zhejiang province, is often referred to as a hub of small and medium-sized enterprises.

… According to a report released by the financial and economic committee of Zhejiang Provincial People's Congress, 140 out of 3,998 large enterprises in Wenzhou closed in the first half of the year while 57 percent of those large companies cut production. … "It is a matter of survival. Orders keep declining, especially those from Europe, and local competition is fierce," Zheng said.

Tougher competition forced the company to cut the price of its products but material and labor costs have risen, Zheng said. … "The price of our products keeps declining as China is no longer the only place with low costs," Ye said. …

After a tour to Zhejiang province on Aug 14 and 15 and another to Guangdong, from Friday to Saturday, Wen called for measures to meet economic goals and warned that the economy could still face turbulence. … This will affect exports, and "the third quarter will be a critical period" for China to realize the year's trade growth target, Wen said. The target is to expand foreign trade by 10 percent.

During the first seven months of this year, China's exports rose by 7.8 percent from a year earlier and imports increased by 6.4 percent year-on-year. In July, export growth slumped to 1 percent, the lowest since 2009. … An index measuring manufacturing activity, published by HSBC, fell to a nine-month low in August, signaling manufacturing may be contracting at a faster pace.

"Manufacturing may deteriorate further, until the end of the year, affected by a faster drop in new orders and no significant signs of improvement in the global economy," said Ma Jinlong, an economist and former director of the Wenzhou government's economic research center.
Ma added that policies, such as loosening restrictions on taxation and supporting the upgrade of products among medium and large-sized enterprises, will help. During his trip to Guangdong, Wen said companies will get more support. …

During the second quarter, the economy grew by 7.6 percent year-on-year, the least in three years. … Some global institutions, including Bank of America and Deutsche Bank, reduced their forecast for China's economic growth in 2012 to 7.7 percent. Earlier this year, Wen set a target of 7.5 percent for GDP growth. …”
Billy T comment:Even in this depressed area, China´s growth is five times higher than the US average. Fortunately, for China the CCP foresaw that Europe, their largest trading partner, was slowly economically in 1999 and decided to make major investments in the development of the interior and western regions (The "go west" program) more details in my last post, 664. If map of China is still showing in 664, Zhejiang province is the pink eastern bulge of China and Guangdong, which Chairman Wen visited last weekend, is also light pink, both with only 7.4% GDP growth. For more on Wen´s visits and plans see: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-26/wen-says-china-need-measures-to-promote-export-growth.html
 
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http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-08/26/content_15705894.htm said:
".. In April, Angola's Interior Minister Sebastiao Martins paid an official visit to China to sign a cooperative agreement with Meng Jianzhu, China's minister of public security, aimed at maintaining security and social order. ... They discussed the criminal activities targeting Chinese victims in Angola, and agreed China would immediately dispatch a team to Angola so investigators from both countries could jointly pursue relevant cases ...

In July, the ministry appointed Liu Ancheng as commander and deployed more than 30 police officers from regions including Liaoning, Anhui and Fujian, and established the joint operations command with Angolan police. ... Angola organized 400 armed police for the joint action, which Chen says neutralized 12 criminal gangs and netted 37 suspects. ...

"Some suspects cheated these naive girls from rural Chinese regions under the guise of introducing them to work abroad in good environments and high salaries," said Chen Shiqu, director of anti-human trafficking office of the criminal investigation department under the ministry.... .."

Billy T notes There are 300,000 Chinese working in Angola and 12 billion dollars has been invested there by China in the last 5 years. Most Chinese workers have contracts for a year or two and many stay after their contract is over. China now can operated as police in Angola, at least in cooperation with local police. Slowly oil and mineral rich Angola is becoming a Chinese colony.
 
Drug testing is yet another billion dollar industry where out-sourcing of jobs is growing:

http://email.ecn5.com/engines/publicPreview.aspx?blastID=595441&emailID=27517480 said:
".. In an attempt to save time, money and resources, international pharmaceutical companies are increasingly out-sourcing clinical trials to countries in Asia, Latin America and Eastern Europe, according to a new report.

The study* states that with squeezed R&D budgets, Big Pharma is finding greater value in employing Contract Research Organizations in emerging nations for the management of clinical trials.

CROs and discovery research outsourcing companies specialize in conducting preclinical and clinical research and provide a faster service with the benefit of economies of scale which enable companies to cover a large number of molecules and identify unsuccessful compounds more quickly. .."
I noted in post long ago that large organization that take many routine X-rays often send them thru the internet to an English speaking Indian doctor to read / interpretate during the US night for less than half the cost and patient never knows who read his X-ray and wrote the report. (Emergency case X-rays are read by a local doctor as a 12 hour delay is too much but of no importance if just checking all entering college students, etc. for TB etc.)*

It is not just low skill level jobs that are being lost - many high skill jobs, especially in IT (software design) are too. US has no longer has an advantage in most levels of scientific knowledge - Its average math/science educational levels are poor compared to many other nations now but US students do throw the best parties.

* I was very poor had dozens of short term jobs at Cornell. One was to help with entering freshmen´s chest X-rays. When a pretty girl was only a few people back in the line, I started asking everyone for their name and phone number, "In case we needed to call them back." In two or three days, I had more than 100 pretty girl´s names and phone numbers.
 
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Its nice to be rapidly growing richer:
http://www.insideinvestingdaily.com/articles/inside-investing-082812.html said:
"..Thanks to growth of over 100% from China's burgeoning middle class last year, the country is now the top importer of wine from France's Bordeaux region. It bought more than 58 million bottles of the red wine in 2011.

But these buyers are not just interested in a few bottles to crack open at a party. In many instances, they are skipping the middleman... and are buying the entire winery. Over the past four years, some 30 French chateaux were bought by Chinese investors, and another 20 deals are currently in the works.

It is good news for American grape growers. In fact, we're witnessing a wave of Chinese investments. Over the last 18 months, Sloan Estate, Silenus Vintner and Bialla Vineyards were sold to Chinese investors. .."
And clever to not keep your wealth in dollars, but buy real, not paper, assets especially farms.
 
I noted in post long ago that large organization that take many routine X-rays often send them thru the internet to an English speaking Indian doctor to read / interpretate during the US night for less than half the cost and patient never knows who read his X-ray and wrote the report. (Emergency case X-rays are read by a local doctor as a 12 hour delay is too much but of no importance if just checking all entering college students, etc. for TB etc.)*

As is generally the trend in offshoring, those are jobs that will no longer exist at all in another ten years. Instead, this stuff will simply be done by automated machine vision systems. Offshoring is the last link down the value chain before outright automation - the fact that the USA has advanced to the point where it is offshoring x-ray analysis is evidence of how huge America's lead in development is.

It is not just low skill level jobs that are being lost - many high skill jobs, especially in IT (software design) are too.

The fact of some offshoring does not necessarily imply that any jobs are "lost" in the home country (or anywhere else). In many cases, the ability to use cheap foreign workers for certain tasks enables companies to grow faster, sell more products, and so support even more local jobs than they would have otherwise. This is exactly the case in every high-tech job I've ever had - without the cheap foreign labor doing the grunt-work, we wouldn't have been any work for the high-end local labor.

If you want to analyze "job losses," then you need to do an analysis of the entire sector and show that there is a corresponding reduction in employment in the buyer country. This stuff is not, in general, a zero-sum game. That being exactly why mercantilism doesn't work so good in the long run.

US has no longer has an advantage in most levels of scientific knowledge

That's not true.

- Its average math/science educational levels are poor compared to many other nations

Science and technology competitiveness is not driven by the average math/science educational levels of the populace as a whole. The "competitive advantage" that India has is an oversupply of educated workers (relative to the local industry capable of employing them) and general poverty - these guys will work for pennies on the dollar, which makes it advantageous to offshore stuff despite the costs (uneven worker skills, high turnover, concerns about IP protection). Somehow, I doubt that you'd recommend widespread poverty and lack of local companies willing to employ educated workers as a sensible strategy for American competitiveness, so it's strange that you trumpet such as evidence of India surpassing the USA. A situation in which India was surpassing the USA would be one in which Indian companies were outsourcing work to America, not the other way around.

* I was very poor had dozens of short term jobs at Cornell. One was to help with entering freshmen´s chest X-rays. When a pretty girl was only a few people back in the line, I started asking everyone for their name and phone number, "In case we needed to call them back." In two or three days, I had more than 100 pretty girl´s names and phone numbers.

That is really creepy and unethical. I can only assume that you never tried to actually pursue these women via the contact info that you defrauded them of, or you would have been told as much by them and probably also your erstwhile employer (as you were given your final paycheck and sent to find work elsewhere). Or are you old enough that that sort of sexist impropriety was still considered acceptable at the time?
 
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... Offshoring is the last link down the value chain before outright automation - the fact that the USA has advanced to the point where it is offshoring x-ray analysis is evidence of how huge America's lead in development is. ...
Please explain this twisted logic. How does replacing a US doctor with an Indian doctor to read X-rays show anything but that they are cheaper to use?

As is generally the trend in offshoring, those are jobs {Clinical testing of drugs -the main subject of my post and the only thing quoted in it.} that will no longer exist at all in another ten years. Instead, this stuff will simply be done by automated machine vision systems. ...
LoL !!! Perhaps you do not know that nearly half of new drugs tested fail because of liver toxicity? Or that > 90% fail because of problems that are not even visible. Your "automated machine vision systems" could detect rash, but in quite a few recently developed and now marketed drugs, that is an acceptable side effect and a sign the drug is working!

http://cancer.about.com/od/treatmentoptions/a/tarceva_rash.htm said:
".. A rash can be a common side effect of Tarceva (erlotinib), ... While the rash can be bothersome, it can be an indicator of the drug's effectiveness. A 2007 study found that those who developed a rash while taking Tarceva had better outcomes than those who did not. Oncologists consider the rash favorable because of this, though it is not an absolute indicator of the drug's efficacy. .."

Tarceva is a very important solid (tumor) cancer drug (one of the top 10 cancer drugs in the global market). It works by preventing the tumor from growing new blood vessels it needs to expand. Although FDA has officially approved it for three major cancer types it is widely used "off label" for most solid tumors as cheaper than Avastin.

Avastin works the same way and main side effect is hypertension. It is FDA approved for 6 different major cancers, and your "automated machine vision systems" will not detect hypertension. Avastin has ANNUAL global sales in excess of 6 billion dollars! - http://www.evaluatepharma.com/Unive...oduct&lType=modData&id=12174&componentID=1002

I think total Tarceva sales are > 3 billion dollars now:
http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-reports/top-10-best-selling-cancer-drugs/tarceva-5642-million#ixzz24xN7MOgF said:
Company: Genentech
2011 sales: $564.2 million
Developers: OSI Pharmaceuticals, Genentech and Roche
FDA approvals: Non-small cell lung cancer, 2004; pancreatic cancer, 2005; NSCLC maintenance therapy, 2010

Tarceva is a "block buster" drug in the industry slang but Avastin is huge "block buster" drug.
 
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Please explain this twisted logic. How does replacing a US doctor with an Indian doctor to read X-rays show anything but they are cheaper to use.

? That is just a rephrasing of my exact point in different terms. US doctors have better things to do than read X-rays, so they outsource that grunt work to technicians (typically not doctors themselves) elsewhere. That represents American doctors moving up the value chain. That is exactly why they are more expensive than Indian technicians further down the value chain.

LoL !!! Perhaps you do not know that nearly half of new drugs tested fail because of liver toxicity?

My comments on machine vision were addressing the x-ray outsourcing issue specifically. It was a typo on my part that I included your sentence on drug trials in that quote, which I have now fixed. For your part, you need to go and remove your edit to your quote of me to assert that I was referring to clinical trials specifically there. Even in light of my error in including that sentence in the quote, it is not a defensible reading of my output that I was referring to clinical trials specifically - and not x-ray analysis - with the phrase "those jobs." In either case, my meaning should now be crystal clear and I expect you to edit your response accordingly.

As to outsourcing of clinical trials: again, the fact that Indians are willing to take unknown risks with their health for less compensation than Americans are - to serve as literal guinea pigs - is exactly a sign that America has moved farther up the value chain than India.

Moreover, I note that you have - typically - declined to respond to the major substance of my response to you, and instead siezed onto a minor tangent to run with. That is your prerogative, of course, but it also amounts to conceding all of the unanswered points in question. More to the point, I expect you to refrain from attempting to reiterate those same assertions at a later date without answering the substance of my responses. To do so would be a dishonorable evasive tactic.
 
... Moreover, I note that you have - typically - declined to respond to the major substance of my response to you, ...
I don´t have time to correct all your false statements, so usually just comment on the first false one. I´ll do one more, since you asked me to comment more on your post. I had said:
... US has no longer has an advantage in most levels of scientific knowledge - its average math/science educational levels are poor compared to many other nations now ...
But you cut off (an intentional dishonest distortion?) the continuation explaining what I meant by “most levels” and only quoted the first half (part now bold) and said:
That´s not true.
But it is true and very well documented in many studies. Here is an exceptionally complete recent one:
http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htm said:
“.. The Third International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) involving a half-million students in 41 countries are authoritative. Oversight groups included not only the world's leading experts on comparative studies of education systems, but also experts in assessment design and statistical analysis.
Comparisons are Fair: Traditionally, the most common criticism of international studies is that it is unfair to compare our results to other countries because their national scores are based on a highly selective population. While this may have been true in the past, it is simply not valid in the case of TIMSS.
Results
1. By the time our students are ready to leave high school - ready to enter higher education and the labor force - they are doing so badly with science they are significantly weaker than their peers in other countries.
2. Our idea of "advanced" is clearly below international standards.
3. There appears to be a consistent weakness in our teaching performance in physical sciences that becomes magnified over the years. ..”
At the Ph.D. and above level the US may have more students at higher achievement level than most other countries, but a disproportional percentage of their students are orientals. Furthermore, most Chinese students in the US´s best school (Ivy league, Stanford, MIT, etc.) had them as their third or fouth choice and only came as they could not get into their preferred schools. More details on this here:
{post 645}Excerpts from “Why the Golden Dragon Will Rise Again” by Tony Sagami 24/7/12
Full text at: http://www.uncommonwisdomdaily.com/why-the-golden-dragon-will-rise-again-14628?FIELD9=3...
Maybe that {"all work no play student attitude" just discussed, but not quoted here} is one of the reasons that China produces more engineers than any other country in the world. China produced 600,000 graduates with engineering degrees last year. The U.S.? Only 70,000. It is that emphasis on academic achievement — as well as the relentless Asian work ethic — that is the unappreciated backbone of China’s economic rise. The Economist magazine and the International Monetary Fund have forecast that China will overtake the U.S. as the largest economy in the world within the next decade.

Peking University was founded as Imperial University of Peking in 1898, was the first national university in China, and has been a leading institution of higher education in China since its establishment {and} is widely regarded as the most-difficult college in the world to gain admission. Harder than Stanford. Harder than Harvard. Harder than Oxford. Or any of other prestigious universities that you can think of. U.S. colleges like Stanford and Harvard are the backup plan (third or fourth or even fifth choice) for China’s top high school graduates. ..."

Workaholic as you are now in Peking, do you find the above accurate or have anything to add? ...
{post 650}Hi BillyT, Yes, I find most of that article to be correct. As I am involved in the recruitment of engineers in the Asian region. I find the top Chinese engineers to be more than adequate for RD work. What they mostly lack is the years of experience seen in Silicon Valley, etc. In my experience the quantity of potential recruits also tops that of the US.{bold added by Billy T} Also, the Chinese engineers in general are more willing to put in long overtime hours to get the job done. Of course this is all from my own narrow personal experience. ...
It takes me more effort to refute your claims as I give supporting documentation - don´t just make assertions as you often do. I just don´t have time to do this for everything false in your posts. For example, your false three word assertion only ("That´s not true") forced this long post showing that it is true.
 
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Thanks to PM from Workaholic, I learned of this article, called: "China´s rise, America´s fall" which includes these two paragraphs:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/chinas-rise-americas-fall/ said:
"... A combination of slowing population growth and rapidly accelerating economic output has obvious implications for national prosperity. During the three decades to 2010, China achieved perhaps the most rapid sustained rate of economic development in the history of the human species, with its real economy growing almost 40-fold between 1978 and 2010. In 1978, America’s economy was 15 times larger, but according to most international estimates, China is now set to surpass America’s total economic output within just another few years.

Furthermore, the vast majority of China’s newly created economic wealth has flowed to ordinary Chinese workers, who have moved from oxen and bicycles to the verge of automobiles in just a single generation. While median American incomes have been stagnant for almost forty years, those in China have nearly doubled every decade, with the real wages of workers outside the farm-sector rising about 150 percent over the last ten years alone. The Chinese of 1980 were desperately poor compared to Pakistanis, Nigerians, or Kenyans; but today, they are several times wealthier, representing more than a tenfold shift in relative income. ..."
I have also noted in several prior posts that in last decade alone, China has made the greatest and fastest urbanization in human history - now slightly more than half of all Chinese live in urban areas. Doing that for much smaller migration in the USA took more than half a century. Allowing the peasants to lease their inefficient tiny family farms to giant agri-corporations was completely against Communist doctrine, but done as more efficient food production was essential with China´s limited fertile land. Part of why rural incomes are up so dramatically is that the former "pig farmers" * now have salaries from jobs in the city PLUS their farm lease rents.

Article also notes that: "... over the last 30 years, real per capita income in China has grown by more than 1,300 percent. " and during the 30 years of the US´s rapid urbanization (1870 to 1900) real, per capita, incomes rose only 100%. Currently real incomes in US have declined 7.2% since 2007. As source quoted in post 645 noted: "China produced 600,000 graduates with engineering degrees last year. The U.S.? Only 70,000." (and they seem at least as well educated as those of the US). The dragon is awaking and the world is shaking as Napoleon predicted it would. With the recent upward revision of 2Q12 US GDP growth, (from 1.5 to 1.7%) China in its current "slump" is growing slightly less than five times faster than the US is.

Article also notes that: "... some high-tech China exports are indeed fully Chinese, notably those of Huawei, which now ranks alongside Sweden’s Ericsson as one of the world’s two leading telecommunications manufacturers, while once powerful North American competitors such Lucent-Alcatel and Nortel have fallen into steep decline or even bankruptcy. And although America originally pioneered the Human Genome Project, the Beijing Genomics Institute (BGI) today probably stands as the world leader in that enormously important emerging scientific field. ..." I´ll also note despite having lost the reference, that Bill Gate´s large health efforts in Africa, gets all their vaccines from China as they are both cheaper and more effective. China also developed the most effective vaccine against "swine flue" in record time - less than one month! The article´s claim that China is leading the world in this important new scientific field has lots of support.

* No insult here as the 700,000 Chinese peasant farmers were raising more pigs than the rest of the world was. - Pork is the favorite meat of the Chinese. With the rapid increase in typical Chinese incomes and associated increase in pork consumption, China will need to have nearly twice as many pigs as the rest of the world does and import much more corn, etc. to feed them. This year 1,340,000,000 Chinese are expected to eat 104,000,000,000 pounds of pork or 77.6 pounds for every man, woman and child. That is 0.21lbs per day so probably will not double for about a decade.

SUMMARY: It is a very long, well documented, fact filled, article all who don´t mind having their "US is the greatest" myth destroyed should read.
 
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Article also notes that: "... some high-tech China exports are indeed fully Chinese, notably those of Huawei,

I can assure you that the "fully Chinese" Huawei in fact employs a great number of Westerners, located in the West, to handle the high-end R&D work. What "fully Chinese" seems to imply here is that they are incorporated in China and the top-level management and manufacturing is Chinese. I can also assure that Huawei is a firmly second-rate company that produces second-rate technology and second-rate products.

Billy T's link said:
while once powerful North American competitors such Lucent-Alcatel and Nortel have fallen into steep decline or even bankruptcy.

And meanwhile, other North American competitors such as Qualcomm, Broadcomm, Apple, etc. are flourishing. This article looks like so much more of the one-sided, half-truth material written to cater to the China obsession in the West. The fact that if you ignore all of the problems in China and ignore all of the successes in the West, that China looks great, is just that.

And this is moreover, exactly what we'd expect from Ron Unz's American Conservative - this is a dedicated paleoconservative politician you are quoting here. He is looking to use China as a bogeyman to make hay for his pre-existing political agenda - and not pursuing objective, unbiased economic analysis. It is unsurprising that this would appeal to you, of course, since you seem to be on the same ideological page as Unz. But the fact remains that this is just so much of him telling you what the both of you want to hear, as a propaganda effort to bolster his own politics. Read his article if you like, but it is dishonest of you to present it as unbiased, factual analysis and not as politicized output. This article is the equivalent of quoting Ron Paul or Newt Gingrich - which you'd presumably know if you'd bothered to google the guy and his mouthpiece publication that you are quoting from.

Billy T's link said:
And although America originally pioneered the Human Genome Project, the Beijing Genomics Institute (BGI) today probably stands as the world leader in that enormously important emerging scientific field.

Not to shit on the BGI, which does lots of good work, but this again misrepresents the actual state of things in genomics.

The article´s claim that China is leading the world in this important new scientific field has lots of support.

Not in the article, it doesn't. That article literally does not say anything about genomics other than the single sentence that you quoted.

Also, you are lapsing into bad quoting style again, mixing quotes and comments without strong delineation.

Meanwhile, here is an article by Minxin Pei, a leading expert on Chinese governance and development:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/29/everything_you_think_you_know_about_china_is_wrong

The latest news from Beijing is indicative of Chinese weakness: a persistent slowdown of economic growth, a glut of unsold goods, rising bad bank loans, a bursting real estate bubble, and a vicious power struggle at the top, coupled with unending political scandals. Many factors that have powered China's rise, such as the demographic dividend, disregard for the environment, supercheap labor, and virtually unlimited access to external markets, are either receding or disappearing.

[...]

The disconnect between the brewing troubles in China and the seemingly unshakable perception of Chinese strength persists even though the U.S. media accurately cover China, in particular the country's inner fragilities. One explanation for this disconnect is that elites and ordinary Americans remain poorly informed about China and the nature of its economic challenges in the coming decades. The current economic slowdown in Beijing is neither cyclical nor the result of weak external demand for Chinese goods. China's economic ills are far more deeply rooted: an overbearing state squandering capital and squeezing out the private sector, systemic inefficiency and lack of innovation, a rapacious ruling elite interested solely in self-enrichment and the perpetuation of its privileges, a woefully underdeveloped financial sector, and mounting ecological and demographic pressures. Yet even for those who follow China, the prevailing wisdom is that though China has entered a rough patch, its fundamentals remain strong.

[...]

It is of course premature to completely write off the Communist Party's capacity for adaptation and renewal. China could come roaring back in a few years, and the United States should not ignore this possibility. But the party's demise can't be ruled out, and the current signs of trouble in China have provided invaluable clues to such a highly probable seismic shift.​

Similarly, here is Patrick Chovanec, a leading analyst of Chinese economics (and professor at Tsinghua University's School of Economics and Management, the premier economics institution in China):

http://chovanec.wordpress.com/

1) China’s economy is not just slowing, it is entering a serious correction. The investment bubble that has been driving Chinese growth has popped, and there are no quick “stimulus” fixes left. There is the very real possibility of some form of financial crisis in China before year’s end.

2) China is in the midst of a once-in-a-decade leadership transition that has not been going smoothly. The transition will take place, but it has paralyzed the Chinese leadership’s ability to respond to the country’s growing economic troubles. China’s leaders believe time is on their side; they do not “get” how serious and urgent the situation is, and that what has always “worked” is no longer working.

3) China’s economic problems spell trouble for the U.S. on several fronts.

First, China is flirting with devaluing its currency to boost exports—a move that will put it in direct conflict with Mitt Romney’s commitments on this issue.
Second, China is already dumping excess capacity in steel and other products onto the export market, a tactic that is likely to inflame trade tensions and reinforce imbalances in the global economy.
Third, in a worst case scenario, China may be tempted to provoke a conflict in the South China Sea to redirect popular discontent onto an external enemy.​

My advice is not really partisan in nature. The points I outline are equally relevant for any other candidate, Republican or Democrat, to take into account. Nor are they meant to inflame China-bashing rhetoric. In fact, they reveal that fears of an unstoppable Chinese juggernaut are misplaced or outdated. What we really should be worried about is a China that is stumbling badly and doesn’t know what to do next.​
 
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... I can also assure that Huawei is a firmly second-rate company that produces second-rate technology and second-rate products. ...
Your unsupported opinion is not worth much compared to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei said:
Huawei Technologies was one of six telecom industry companies included in the World's Most Respected 200 Companies list compiled by Forbes magazine in May 2007.[77] In December 2008, BusinessWeek magazine included Huawei in their inaugural list of "The World's Most Influential Companies".[78]

In 2010 Fast Company ranked Huawei the fifth most innovative company in the world.[79] The same year, Huawei received three honors at the Global Telecom Business Innovation Awards including "Green base station innovation", "Wholesale network innovation" and "Consumer voting innovation" awards with Vodafone, BT and TalkTalk, respectively.[80] In 2010 Frost & Sullivan recognized Huawei as the 2010 SDM Equipment Vendor of the Year[81] and in the contact center application market with the 2010 Asia Pacific Growth Strategy Leadership Award.[82] On 29 July 2010, Huawei was recognized by British Telecom with Best in Class 21CN Solution Maturity, Value, Service and Innovation award, for its innovation and contribution in 21CN and Next Generation Access project.[83] Also in 2010 The Economist recognized Huawei with its Corporate Use of Innovation Award.[84] In May 2011 Huawei won two awards at the LTE World Summit 2011 for “Significant Progress for a Commercial Launch of LTE by a Vendor” and “Best LTE Network Elements.” As of May 2011, Huawei has deployed over 100 SingleRAN commercial networks, which are capable of evolving into LTE, and of those that have deployed SingleRAN networks, more than 40 operators have announced the launch or the imminent launch of distinct LTE services.[8] ..."
and hardly consistent with fact that Huawei recently over took Ericssion to become the world´s largest telecommunication company.
But in keeping with my policy I only correct your first error. - don´t want to waste more time on you.

Day later by edit:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9230806/Huawei_previews_new_Emotion_UI_for_smartphones_ships_new_tablets?source=CTWNLE_nlt_pm_2012-08-31 said:
Huawei has also unveiled two new tablets in its MediaPad series. The Huawei MediaPad 10 FHD has a 10.1-inch screen with a resolution of 1920 by 1200 pixels. The device uses a company developed 1.4GHz quad-core processor, and runs Android 4.0.

The tablet features a 8-megapixel rear-facing camera, and 1 .3 megapixel front-facing camera, while using a 6600mAh battery that the company claims will provide more than 10 hours of use. The device comes with three different memory options, at 8GB, 16GB and 32GB. It weighs in at 580 grams, and is 8.8mm thick. Huawei said on Friday its 10-inch tablet will ship to Germany, Sweden, Russia, Belarus, South Korea, Bahrain and Kuwait next month, with other markets to follow. The tablet is already available in China.
 
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Your unsupported opinion is not worth much compared to:

Can't say I care about any of that stuff. I am an expert on the technologies that Huawei produces and have worked closely with them before, seen what is under the hood, run competitive analyses on it, etc. They throw a lot of money around and burn through employees at a staggering rate, but have yet to really build up any impressive technological base. They have a lot of "good enough" technologies that are sufficient for them to sustain a product base, but are not technology leaders by any means.

and hardly consistent with fact that Huawei recently over took Ericssion to become the world´s largest telecommunication company.

All that means is that they have a lot of cash. It doesn't imply that they produce the best technology. Nor does Ericsson, for that matter.

But in keeping with my policy I only correct your first error. - don´t want to waste more time on you.

You did not cite an "error," but a simple difference of opinion, in the first place.

In the second place, your "policy" is nothing more than an obvious tactic to evade substantial engagement, downplay material that you have no good response to, and instead derail the interaction into some tangential quibble that you would prefer to beat your drum on. I regard this behavior as cheap and dishonorable in the first place, and moreover as a highly petty, dishonest method of conceding the points in question. I will furthermore thank you to refrain from your insulting troll tactic of responding simply to say that you are not going to respond and issue hollow dismissals of my output. You are acting like a child in grade school.
 
There is really no point in replying to Quadraphonics with facts that dispute his unsupported personal opinions.
He knows better :rolleyes: about the quality of Huawei products than:

(1) British Telecom who recognized Huawei as Best in Class (for Maturity, Value, Service and Innovation)
(2) LTE World Summit in May 2011, (for Best LTE Network Elements.)
(3) The Economist which recognized Huawei with its Corporate Innovation Award.
(4) Frost & Sullivan which recognized Huawei as SDM Equipment Vendor of Year 2010
(5) Fast Company which ranked Huawei as the fifth most innovative company in the world in 2010.
(6) Forbes magazine as one of six telecom industry companies World's Most Respected 200 Companies.
(7) BusinessWeek magazine included Huawei in their inaugural list of "The World's Most Influential Companies".
(8) Huawei received three honors at the 2010 Global Telecom Business Innovation Awards:
"Green base station innovation",
"Wholesale network innovation" and
"Consumer voting innovation" awards.

As Quadraphonics is:
... an expert on the technologies that Huawei produces and have worked closely with them before, seen what is under the hood, run competitive analyses on it, etc. ...
And can assure me that:
...Huawei is a firmly second-rate company that produces second-rate technology and second-rate products. ...
Can there be any doubt? after Quadraphonics has looked inside: :geek: :roflmao:

But it is strange how a "second rate" company became the world´s largest telecommunications supplier. See the fantastic specs on just released (in China, but soon the world) new tablet, using their own developed 1.4GHz quad-core processor, at end of prior post.
 
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120904024719-merkel-hu-story-top.jpg
The body language revels who has needs and who holds the strong hand.
Figure´s original caption is: German Chancellor Angela Merkel and the Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao travel on a high-speed train from Beijing to Tianjin.

She went there to tour an Airbus plant in Tianjin, but it must have been a little awkward if she knew that the Chinese bought their first moderate speed trains from Germany to get started and then nearly doubled their speed with Chinese technology and world´s most extensive high speed tracks.
 
There is really no point in replying to Quadraphonics

ANd yet, you are all set to do so anyway. Why, if there's no point? Just to vent your spite and contempt with a bunch of repetitive taunting and baiting smileys? Real impressive.

with facts that dispute his unsupported personal opinions.

There might actually be, if you had any. But all you are supplying is opinions:

He knows better :rolleyes: about the quality of Huawei products than:

(1) British Telecom who recognized Huawei as Best in Class (for Maturity, Value, Service and Innovation)
(2) LTE World Summit in May 2011, (for Best LTE Network Elements.)
(3) The Economist which recognized Huawei with its Corporate Innovation Award.
(4) Frost & Sullivan which recognized Huawei as SDM Equipment Vendor of Year 2010
(5) Fast Company which ranked Huawei as the fifth most innovative company in the world in 2010.
(6) Forbes magazine as one of six telecom industry companies World's Most Respected 200 Companies.
(7) BusinessWeek magazine included Huawei in their inaugural list of "The World's Most Influential Companies".
(8) Huawei received three honors at the 2010 Global Telecom Business Innovation Awards:
"Green base station innovation",
"Wholesale network innovation" and
"Consumer voting innovation" awards.

That's correct. You are citing the opinions of a bunch of puff-piece business writers, and not engineers with hands-on experience with Huawei technology or direct experience working with Huawei engineers.

Also, note that almost none of those accolades you cite there say anything about the quality of Huawei's technology or products. It's mostly stuff about "influence" and "respect" and "maturity" and "value." Heck, a bunch of them don't even state that Huawei is particularly great - despite your attempts at bolding the reader to death - but just say stuff like "top 5" or "one of 6" or "on the list."

Anyway, you can find such puffery for just about any reasonably successfully company out there. Such being exactly what the business puff press exists to produce.

But it is strange how a "second rate" company became the world´s largest telecommunications supplier.

Not particularly. They mass-produce cheap products with feature sets that copy-cat the current leaders, and accept a lower margin to undercut them. Just like how pretty much every technology sector eventually becomes commodified and dominated by a lowest common denominator. We're all familiar with lots of famous examples of second-rate technology coming to dominate big sectors: VHS, Windows, etc.

See the fantastic specs on just released (in China, but soon the world) new tablet, using their own developed 1.4GHz quad-core processor, at end of prior post.

That stuff is again second-rate kit, living in the shadow of offerings by the likes of Apple and Samsung (the actual market leaders). It's the same in smartphones, etc.
 
body language revels who has needs and who holds the strong hand.

So you're just going to gossip about things you read into photos in this post? No serious attempt at data or analysis or actual relevance to anything serious?
 
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