Born again Christians, any around?

S

sdotter123

Registered Member
Hi, I've hung out with a lot of baptists through the past year or so, and I've tried very hard to believe in God and learn as much as I can by going to their church and activities. The more and more I've tried to understand, the less I do and the more I start to really just plain disagree. Have any of you ever felt the same way? Also, a lot of times I have felt left out (not that I think any of them meant to make me feel that way) because I am not really one of them.
 
The word "born again" is not even in the bible. Some churches demand members to be "born again". That's flatout unbiblical.
 
sdotter123: Hi, I've hung out with a lot of baptists through the past year or so, and I've tried very hard to believe in God and learn as much as I can by going to their church and activities. The more and more I've tried to understand, the less I do and the more I start to really just plain disagree. Have any of you ever felt the same way? Also, a lot of times I have felt left out (not that I think any of them meant to make me feel that way) because I am not really one of them.
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M*W: You will even find that separation here. The xians on the forum, well one in particular, Jenyar, makes a point to be a separatist, but he is in his own little delusional world. I, too, have found that xians go out of their way to make non-xians feel left out. That's part of their game plan, but only the weak fall for it.
 
As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said "...Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again...." (John 3:3-7).

It is Biblical actually
 
Well, the ones I was talking about don't try to (they actually very much try not to) because they actually want you to join them in their beliefs, because they really really just believe that they are correct and they don't want people to go to hell so they spread THE WORD around as much as they can. I don't know about people on this forum (though I have noticed that a lot of people are just arguing over stupid things like definitions of words). I really just want to hear people beliefs, so maybe I'll make another thread asking what each religion is supposed to believe... ;)
 
Joeman said:
The word "born again" is not even in the bible. Some churches demand members to be "born again". That's flatout unbiblical.
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Born again certainly is in the Bible:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
As usual the Christians appropriated the pagan meaning of being 'born again'

For the early Christians who partook of an hallucinogenic sacrament, it was interpreted as purging of sin and joining in God's kingdom, for th gnostics it was gnosis. direct knowing via sacraments

For earth religious pagans it was CELEBRATORY. not having the indoctrinated idea of being born in sin and haveing to PURGe said 'sin', they took the sacrament in that spirit

What the experience does is expand one's sense of oneself. you can think of your normal sense of yourself as an egoic boundary. when you take an hallucinogen that sense expands and merges with the community of other celebrants and Nature. which was always where the pagans had their rituals

The Christians were/are an urban religion and demonized all of that, Nature and the body and celebratory sensuality and ecstasy

what these modern 'born again' christians are doing is just offering words, and symbols...yet therer are people--it has to be said--who seem satisfied with this. Or think they are. who am i to say. But i still like to explore the origins, and i know which I prefer
 
duendy said:
what these modern 'born again' christians are doing is just offering words, and symbols...yet therer are people--it has to be said--who seem satisfied with this. Or think they are. who am i to say. But i still like to explore the origins, and i know which I prefer
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So what are you saying about the modern born again christians? When you say they are just offering words and symbols, could you give me an example?
 
sdotter123, you can try hanging around members of other denominations or spending more time in personal reflection. Some people remain unconvinced through socialization and discussion with other people and have to spend time alone in introspection about their beliefs.

I'm not "born again" and I'm not Baptist, but I am Christian. There are few Christians on this forum. This really isn't a place for theological discussion.
 
Ozymandias said:
sdotter123, you can try hanging around members of other denominations or spending more time in personal reflection. Some people remain unconvinced through socialization and discussion with other people and have to spend time alone in introspection about their beliefs.
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Hey, thanks for the advice! I like the idea of hanging around other denominations, but as for the latter, I don't know about that one. I have spent many nights alone with my thoughts thinking about this, and it tends to get me nowhere. You see, I WANT to believe in God, but I can't get past my own doubt. The more I think about it, the more I convince myself I'm right.

I'm not "born again" and I'm not Baptist, but I am Christian. There are few Christians on this forum. This really isn't a place for theological discussion.
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Damn, I thought there were a decent ammount here. I still find the discussions here interesting and therefore will still hang around for a while, but thanks for the heads up.
 
"Born of water" if referring to baptism by emersion. Christ was saying that unless a man is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Many Christian churches teach that baptism is not required for salvation. Jesus Christ himself was baptized to “fulfill all righteousness”. Those Christians who say baptism is not necessary are putting themselves above Christ.
 
AntonK said:
As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said "...Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again...." (John 3:3-7).
It is Biblical actually
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That translation is wrong. My bible (NRSV) says

"Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above." Nicodemus said to him, "How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into mother's womb and be born? Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, You must be born from above."

1 Peter 1:23

You must be born from above, no of perishable but of imperishable seed, throught the living and enduring word of God.

Born from above based on this translation cannot mean anything other than water baptism. NRSV is considered the most accurate translation of all, because they have scholars from all denominations; therefore, they don't have a theological axe to grind.

Whenever someone asks me if I am a born again Christian, I ask the person back if he/she is a born from above Christian.
 
sdotter123 said:
So what are you saying about the modern born again christians? When you say they are just offering words and symbols, could you give me an example?
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Well words and symbols are just that. i go to the priest. and say i want to know 'God'.`what ACTUALLy can he show me. he can read or point out passages of text. and he can point to the pictures on stained glass windows--symbols, and the Cross with Jesus dying on it of course, and the symbols conjred in the head from reading words. All that.

This is VERy recent relatively speaking. In ancient times you would recieve a sacramant that you'd eat or drink which was halluinogenic and you would have direct spiritual experience. Your sense of yourself would feel extraordinarily expanded. so this wasn't just empty words and symbols but living ecstasy

being born again in this context has more than one meaning. it involves becoming the god--possession, as in Dionysian religion, whereby you merge with tthe community (communion) and Nature--as all the pagan rituals were held in Nature. AND with integration--after the ecstasy subsides, your sense of yourself may feel greatly affected. I.e 'born again'

now the earthy pagan rituals were celebratory. abandoning to ecstasy. whereas the more ascetic pagan rituals--which i term patriarchal divided Nature from spirit, and so their goal was to return to the spiritual realm, thus escaping Nature. THAt idea influenced Christianity, though both the patriarchal pagan symbolism and Christianity both appropriate the earlier earth religious mythis symbolism...such as Goddess and her son/lover, which they translated to 'God' and 'his' son'...'Christ'

so. it really is up to you. what do you want. do you want to be an explorer like me. or get suked into some cult with its Fruitless dogma. whcih really guilts you, and has you lookin over your shoulder for their 'Devil'.....which soon you'll be seeing in everyone and anything that doesn't conform to that dogma?
 
duendy said:
so. it really is up to you. what do you want. do you want to be an explorer like me. or get suked into some cult with its Fruitless dogma. whcih really guilts you, and has you lookin over your shoulder for their 'Devil'.....which soon you'll be seeing in everyone and anything that doesn't conform to that dogma?
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Believe me, I know people who are like that (to an extent). I am an explorer, maybe forever, maybe until I find some answers.
 
I understand "born of water" to mean, born of the flesh, i.e, her water is breaking. What the term born again/from above/of the spirit points at is then self explanatory. Also the following phrase about what is of the flesh and what is of the spirit makes sense. Exactly what that means when we talk about a person's life and experience is much less clear.

SDOTTER, it is difficult to fit in to a church, difficult to fit into a nationality, and difficult to fit into a community for many people. Sometimes I listen to christian teachings and get offended because they are being so simplistic or adding a bunch of extraneous BS and i want to scream, other times I connect with christians on a more personal level and it feels like family. Sometimes I open a bible and it is a very confusing experience, and sometimes I study it and everything makes sense somehow. Don't expect to understand everything all at once. I have been a christian for twenty years ( I even count the years when I turned away) and it is still difficult to understand it. As a matter of fact, it was a lot easier to understand years ago, when I just accepted other people's explanations. Maybe you don't want to accept other people's explanations. Good.

If you continue your search for God, the truth, meaning, etc., you will probably find it. Don't be confused by people here who think there is only one type of faith, or one way to be a "christian" (the atheists generally have this mindset). The only reasonable faith to have is your faith, eventually anyone with a high awareness and honesty level will come to that, whether they start out with someone else's faith or no faith.
 
sdotter123,

Having a personal relationship with God, and being part of an organization of men, are not the same thing...not at all...not even a little bit. Being born again is something very personal, and is an experience, as opposed to a denomination or indoctrination.

I'm born again, and I'm not a part of any religious organization. I was turned off by organized religion a long time ago and the more I come to understand about God through my experience with Him, the more turned off I get. It's just used so often in the wrong way...to perpetuate so many lies...lies about Him...lies that kill. It's used as a cheap substitute for that personal relationship with Him...the mother of all prostitutes...taking His name in vain...witnessing falsely of Him...making people believe that His love is for sale.

His love is not for sale.

I've recently wondered myself just what it is to be born again. I've described it as a spiritual transformation...but it seems that the transformation may be the consequence of it. It's determined by one's desire...to direct one's focus...to seek the truth...to knock on that door. Then when the truth is shown...when the door is opened...there ensues a change in perception...an epiphany...that redirects your desires and focus even more...more truth is shown...and your perception continues to change. This goes on and on.

It's a spiritual interaction...a spiritual phenomenon...by which the truth is shown. It's a two-way communication between you and God personally...spirit to spirit. But see, it's not only those who are "born again" who are directed and influenced by the Holy Spirit or the spiritual realm...everyone is...constantly and to a great degree...whether you know it or not, or believe it or not. So then is being born again simply the awareness of it? The acknowledgement of it? I know that it is dependent upon knowing God personally...having that personal interaction. It's the ONLY way to truly know...to know the truth. The truth is not something that you may know by heresay, or by study, or by becoming a member of an organization...it can not be received indirectly, but only through personal experience with God Himself through His Holy Spirit.


Love,

Lori
 
sdotter123 said:
Hi, I've hung out with a lot of baptists through the past year or so, and I've tried very hard to believe in God and learn as much as I can by going to their church and activities. The more and more I've tried to understand, the less I do and the more I start to really just plain disagree.
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Im not surprised since theres so many different denominations of xian sects and
everyone claims to know the Holly Truth and be The One Best.
imo all religions/gods are just inventions of primitive mens minds thats why theres so many of them
www.godchecker.com/ ;)
what all those diff beliefs acomplish is just to divide people and make them hate one another.

you want the truth look to science!
www.atheists.org
 
Lori_7 said:
It's a spiritual interaction...a spiritual phenomenon...by which the truth is shown. It's a two-way communication between you and God personally...spirit to spirit.
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interesting...
but
how do you know its your spirit to God spirit and not just that litle voice,your thoughts in your head?
in another words youre just answering your own questions.

origins of beliefs in SPIRITS ;)
 
scorpius said:
interesting...
but
how do you know its your spirit to God spirit and not just that litle voice,your thoughts in your head?
in another words youre just answering your own questions.

origins of beliefs in SPIRITS ;)
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I hav read that article before. he is your typical arrogant athiestic-scientist, who ridicules his ancstors because they were pre-scientific and thus 'thick' in comparison with the likes of him and his scientific colleagues. His attitude wil also include all people NOW who aren't scienfitically educated and/or knowledgeable. i HAT that atitude, i really do. i get the image of chest stuck out, strutting about

i would like to know if he knew the itracies of myth making. its poetic attributes, especially in its pre-patriarchal ohase. probably not case he is stuck in his science books

he also gets it wrong by assuming ALL ancient poeple felt the same. for example where he imagines that they believed in a 'mind' as noun. that is ridiculous. prepariarchal people who had the insight into animism--spirit and matter not being separated--never believed in the Christian conception of noun-minds that are 'souls' abd have separate after-life existtences. for them individual breath was intimately connected to actual wind, and trees, etc. in other words they saw Earth/Nature as enspirited. Alive. NOT 'merely chemicals' as the athiest reduces everything to

Thus their cultures were colourful, and enjoyed rhythym and dancing. wonder when the last time tthe athiest-scientist eally abandoned himself to some dance in Nature.
but he would happlit have you in his clinical laboratory wiring up your brain and playin you like some weird video game...pressing you 'happiness' 'lust' desprression' buttons. for that is where their heads is at. objective conTROL

but exprerience is something else. this world is for EXPERIENCE. isn't that the whole point?
 
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