Bordello and rape

[arauca]

For the sake of completeness, prostitution isn't necessarily about sex either. From the customer's viewpoint it's often about making a human connection, the cliche being, "My wife doesn't understand me." From the prostitute's viewpoint it's just another unpleasant thing that you have to do - like taking out the garbage.


And prostitution is about using money to alter her will.

I would not say the at all . There are a large variety of reason to be prostitute , one of them an easy life. I even not sure if there is a guilty feeling . I my early life I was a weakly customer , same of then even if you talk of changing a life style might get angry with you . So I considered let life flow as it wants. If you are a steady customer they make it enjoyable , they don't rush you and they ask you to stay over night .

 

[billvon]

In all of these scenarios, it is the woman who greatly suffers.
No one joyfully enters into prostitution.

In the same way that no one joyfully goes to work on a Monday, agreed. However, for some it's a reasonable job.

No one joyfully agrees to being used by men.

Agreed. But some women enjoy using men for sex - and don't mind being paid for it either.

It is a decision a woman makes who thinks she has no better and brighter option.

Or by a woman who likes sex and prefers it to another job.

There are lots of jobs out there. Some lucky people have jobs they love. Most people choose a job that pays reasonably well that they don't dislike too much. For a few women, that job choice is prostitution.

Would they be happier if someone gave them a million dollars and they didn't have to work? Probably. But that's true of everyone, not just prostitutes.

I don't like these types of topics because it infers ever so subtly that somehow prostitution, if it were legalized, would somehow benefit society. No; it only benefits men who apparently can't get laid without paying for it.

Yes and no. Legalizing alcohol did not benefit society, but outlawing it hurt society a LOT. (Increase in deaths from alcoholism, increase in crime, increase in violence.) There's a parallel there with prostitution. By removing the crime, the drugs and the STD's society is better off. Not because prostitution is good or beneficial, but because its illegal form is harmful.

Women who go into prostitution have a myriad of issues that only worsen when they permit themselves to being used as sex tools for another person's fantasies or pleasure. Sure they get paid but that only means they don't see the value of themselves beyond a mere commodity to be used. Like I use my toaster or vacuum cleaner.

That's no more accurate than saying that actors are mentally ill people who have no identity of their own and must adopt the roles that are provided for them by movie studios, and are trapped in their life of lies and deception. Sure, there are people like that, but the majority just want to act and get paid.

 

[arauca]

Yep.
In all of these scenarios, it is the woman who greatly suffers.
No one joyfully enters into prostitution. No one joyfully agrees to being used by men.
It is a decision a woman makes who thinks she has no better and brighter option.

I don't like these types of topics because it infers ever so subtly that somehow prostitution, if it were legalized, would somehow benefit society. No; it only benefits men who apparently can't get laid without paying for it.

And understand, it's not that I think we should or need to eradicate society of prostitution, but we need to see it for what it is, and it will never be a value to society. Never. Women who go into prostitution have a myriad of issues that only worsen when they permit themselves to being used as sex tools for another person's fantasies or pleasure. Sure they get paid but that only means they don't see the value of themselves beyond a mere commodity to be used. Like I use my toaster or vacuum cleaner.

Legalizing prostitution doesn't benefit society. It legalizes depravity, that's about it. That's why articles that sorry, but outright lie, that such depravity has an "upside" make me ill.

It gives benefit to society that man have an alternative for his sex drive if his wife is not willing to help him. and man can continue been married and support the family
Otherwise he will get himself involved with an other woman and eventually get divorce.
There a lot of man use their service . For those married man who use their service , the wife apparently the wife have to many head akes , or is to concern about their hair do, or other excuses . Normal women snarls at prostitution I think is because there is an other woman that the husband shears the affection

 

[arauca]

In the same way that no one joyfully goes to work on a Monday, agreed. However, for some it's a reasonable job.

Agreed. But some women enjoy using men for sex - and don't mind being paid for it either.

Or by a woman who likes sex and prefers it to another job.

There are lots of jobs out there. Some lucky people have jobs they love. Most people choose a job that pays reasonably well that they don't dislike too much. For a few women, that job choice is prostitution.

Would they be happier if someone gave them a million dollars and they didn't have to work? Probably. But that's true of everyone, not just prostitutes.



Yes and no. Legalizing alcohol did not benefit society, but outlawing it hurt society a LOT. (Increase in deaths from alcoholism, increase in crime, increase in violence.) There's a parallel there with prostitution. By removing the crime, the drugs and the STD's society is better off. Not because prostitution is good or beneficial, but because its illegal form is harmful.



That's no more accurate than saying that actors are mentally ill people who have no identity of their own and must adopt the roles that are provided for them by movie studios, and are trapped in their life of lies and deception. Sure, there are people like that, but the majority just want to act and get paid.

My friend finally you backed me up, with you elaborate soft spoken communication. Thank you.

 

[wegs]

Yes, I always come away warm and fuzzy, when someone justifies depravity and degradation of women, with examples that have nothing to do with the core issue.

 

[arauca]

Yes, I always come away warm and fuzzy, when someone justifies depravity and degradation of women, with examples that have nothing to do with the core issue.

Have you ever had a chat with a prostitute ? In my early life I wanted to pull one out of that life , She said that is very nice of you bu you can not afford me.
I don't see it in no way degrading , some of them are very lovely lady .

 

[wegs]

Have you ever had a chat with a prostitute ? In my early life I wanted to pull one out of that life , She said that is very nice of you bu you can not afford me.
I don't see it in no way degrading , some of them are very lovely lady .

No one wants to be used or seen as a commodity, arauca. No one. No matter how someone justifies or disguises the fact that he/she is being used (for money, etc...) it doesn't take away the fact that deep down, that person knows he/she is being used. Human beings have an incredible ability, however, to acclimate to just about any environment. Acclimation doesn't mean acceptance, however. It just means that the person has somehow accepted that being used by others, is his/her only way to make it in life.

And men who pay prostitutes for sex are acting out of their depravity, but can probably come up with a whole host of reasons, to justify why they use women. Like your example above...it will save a marriage? That is your justification? If a wife at home won't have sex with her husband, instead of the husband getting to the reasons behind that, he can just go 'use' a prostitute? As we can see, the justifications have no limits. You are right in your example above, though. Men do use prostitutes so they can still 'keep' their marriage going, and still get a lil somethin' on the side. Having one's cake and eating it, too. And I guess it's ok for that same man to lie to his wife, because I highly doubt he's telling his wife he's banging prostitutes. But, hey...according to you, this is a good thing.

Human beings are not meant to be used, is my point.

Legalizing prostitution basically tells society that it's ok (legal) to use women for sex, in the form of a business transaction.

And I dare to wonder why sexism is on the rise, and not the decline.

To answer your question arauca, I have only met one prostitute; she was part of a support group I was helping with, a few years ago. She shared that she was abused by her father, and ran away when she was a teenager to escape his abuse. She had no skills, so she became a prostitute. She also became addicted to drugs shortly after she started working as a prostitute. Not all prostitutes have a story such as hers, I realize this. But, most women who see nothing wrong with allowing their bodies to be used for sex in the form of a business transaction, don't see themselves as deserving better.

 

[arauca]

No one wants to be used or seen as a commodity, arauca. No one. No matter how someone justifies or disguises the fact that he/she is being used (for money, etc...) it doesn't take away the fact that deep down, that person knows he/she is being used. Human beings have an incredible ability, however, to acclimate to just about any environment. Acclimation doesn't mean acceptance, however. It just means that the person has somehow accepted that being used by others, is his/her only way to make it in life.

And men who pay prostitutes for sex are just as depraved but can probably come up with a whole host of reasons, to justify why they use women. Like your example above...it will save a marriage? That is your justification? If a wife at home won't have sex with her husband, instead of the husband getting to the reasons behind that, he can just go 'use' a prostitute? As we can see, the justifications have no limits. You are right in your example above, though. Men do use prostitutes so they can still 'keep' their marriage going, and still get a lil somethin' on the side. Having one's cake and eating it, too. And I guess it's ok for that same man to lie to his wife, because I highly doubt he's telling his wife he's banging prostitutes. But, hey...according to you, this is a good thing.

Human beings are not meant to be used, is my point.

Legalizing prostitution basically tells society that it's ok (legal) to use women for sex, in the form of a business transaction.

And I dare to wonder why sexism is on the rise, and not the decline.

Sexism that is a woman problem, get married be compatible. let me give you a married answer and prostitution if the wife cook and I love he cooking I don't want to go to restaurant .

The other thing crossed mu mind Is there much different in one night stand , It cost the guy a expensive dinner and a present ,( bot cost money) or go to a professional that know how to treat a man ?

 

[Asguard]

I love the authority people are making these judgements, firstly the compleate ignorance that males are prostitutes too but secondly the absolute assumption that no one enjoys there work

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/why-im-happy-to-be-a-sex-worker-20130913-2toi6.html

1. All sex workers are women.

This is a good myth to begin with, because the conservative view of sex work as something exploitative is predicated on the idea that all of its victims are women. In fact, there are many men who also choose to participate in the broad spectrum of work that makes up the sex industry. But because men are generally assumed to be less vulnerable to sexual exploitation than women, we tend to view their participation as something different and more autonomous. (What man wouldn't want to get paid to have sex, amirite?! etc.)

The collective cultural view of the sex industry is still one in which women are thought to make up the subjugated parties and men the johns who benefit from them. But what happens when men are the ones pulling a pay check from providing sexual services? And what does it mean if women are the ones paying for it? Would a woman buying the services of a female sex worker be less likely, in our view, to exploit her? Would a man purchasing time with a male sex worker be able to treat him the way we imagine female sex workers are treated? Undermined, degraded, exploited? Or would all of these transactions occur in much the same way as each other – occasionally enjoyable, often as expected and sometimes requiring action unfavourable to those workers involved.

In short, kind of like a normal work day.

2. There's no such thing as real choice in sex work, because no one would ever choose to sell their body for money.

It can be tricky to understand what constitutes the notion of inviolable choice. To some people, sex workers are women to be pitied, either pawns of the patriarchy with no agency of their own or poor women who've had to resort to "degrading" themselves to make a living.

The reality is a little more nuanced than that. A sex worker (and let's assume in this instance that it's a woman) may indeed be poor and untrained enough for socially sanctioned careers to ensure that her available options keep her hovering around the poverty line. On the other hand, she might have a middle-class background, a tertiary education and no apparent "need" to choose an option that so many sanctimoniously assume to be the last resort. While sex work for both these women may just be a way to earn a more than decent income, improving the stability of both their finances and her family (if they have one), it might also be something they enjoy as much as any other kind of job if not more. Validating (and shaming) sex workers based on your interpretation of their circumstances undermines the very same autonomy and choice the sex industry is often accused of denying women.

Much like any career field, the sex industry is staffed by women (and men) of all different backgrounds. Some come from privilege, and have had all the benefits of education that are supposed to "keep" women out of a career path seen as both shabby and tawdry. Do we need to "save" them as well? Or are they entitled to their choice because we assume their privilege allows them to make it more freely than the women we speak for, but not to?

http://www.dailylife.com.au/health-and-fitness/debunking-the-myths-of-sex-work-20130429-2iodn.html

 

[wegs]

There's no judgements. That's not at all my point. I'm well aware that there are male prostitutes. The point I'm making is, no one enjoys being used. And to legalize prostitution simply illustrates that society views people as disposable, just like a toaster or a box of Kleenex. I don't care what "evidence" anyone uses to support such a notion that people don't mind being used (for any reason), it's simply not true.

It's not about morality which is subjective to me, it's not even about anyone's views on sex. To me, legalizing prostitution opens up a Pandora's box of more to follow, as it relates to human beings losing their intrinsic value and being reduced to little more the sum total of their body parts' "worth" to society.

IOW, legalizing prostitution will cause more harm than good, in the long run and the damage it will do will become evident in other arenas, directly or indirectly.

Nothing stays in a vacuum.

It's a human problem. And, it's merely my own opinion.

 

[Asguard]

Love judgement without evidence. I mean what would those who actually do it know, someone with no experience of course knows better. And as for your second point prove it, you should be able to point to examples of rains of frogs and Hell raining down in Victoria if your "theory" had any substance.

 

[wegs]

Love judgement without evidence. I mean what would those who actually do it know, someone with no experience of course knows better. And as for your second point prove it, you should be able to point to examples of rains of frogs and Hell raining down in Victoria if your "theory" had any substance.

For what it is worth...I'm no longer a religious person; to me, this is a human problem. And I don't need to supply evidence. Should you live long enough to see the damage that legalizing prostitution will eventually cause for all of society, that will be your evidence.

 

[arauca]

There's no judgements. That's not at all my point. I'm well aware that there are male prostitutes. The point I'm making is, no one enjoys being used. And to legalize prostitution simply illustrates that society views people as disposable, just like a toaster or a box of Kleenex. I don't care what "evidence" anyone uses to support such a notion that people don't mind being used (for any reason), it's simply not true.

It's not about morality which is subjective to me, it's not even about anyone's views on sex. To me, legalizing prostitution opens up a Pandora's box of more to follow, as it relates to human beings losing their intrinsic value and being reduced to little more the sum total of their body parts' "worth" to society.

IOW, legalizing prostitution will cause more harm than good, in the long run and the damage it will do will become evident in other arenas, directly or indirectly.

Nothing stays in a vacuum.

It's a human problem. And, it's merely my own opinion.

Let me ask this question : young man from 16-- to say 27 years old they are in the high sexual drive what should they do . Sould they get married at 17 . 18 years old seduce the girlfriend rape some relative girl, or go to a brothel ?

 

[arauca]

For what it is worth...I'm no longer a religious person; to me, this is a human problem. And I don't need to supply evidence. Should you live long enough to see the damage that legalizing prostitution will eventually cause for all of society, that will be your evidence.

I know you are not talking to me , but I grew up in South America, believe the USA morality is much more in decay then there the divorce rates arenot as high as here , I don.t know how it is in "The good down under " ( Australia )

 

[wegs]

Let me ask this question : young man from 16-- to say 27 years old they are in the high sexual drive what should they do . Sould they get married at 17 . 18 years old seduce the girlfriend rape some relative girl, or go to a brothel ?

Is that the only set of options to choose from? Lol
He could date someone, and develop a healthy sexual relationship with that person.
Raping someone arauca is never an option. Rape isn't about sex, as much as it is about power and control over another person. Sex is the bridge to that end.

Sexuality and how people choose to express it is definitely a subjective matter of opinion.

But, implying that legalizing prostitution will somehow lessen the crime of rape, indicates that proponents of such a notion don't truly understand what motivates a person to rape.

 

[wegs]

I know you are not talking to me , but I grew up in South America, believe the USA morality is much more in decay then there the divorce rates arenot as high as here , I don.t know how it is in "The good down under " ( Australia )

Please tell me you're not advocating prostitution as a measure to save marriages.

 

[arauca]

Please tell me you're not advocating prostitution as a measure to save marriages.

I don't advocate anything by I don't oppose either. I was married for 22 years , but as I got involved wit a friend then the hell broke loose , and I had to split , otherwise I was married and living my dual life for 20 years

 

[wegs]

I don't advocate anything by I don't oppose either. I was married for 22 years , but as I got involved wit a friend then the hell broke loose , and I had to split , otherwise I was married and living my dual life for 20 years

I get where you're coming from, arauca. I'm just showing another POV, is all. I just don't believe everything is "for sale." (that's neither here nor there for this discussion, i suppose)

I'm not judging someone's choice in the matter, I'm speaking more to the point of how legalizing prostitution will not lessen the crime of rape, all things being equal, and it won't benefit society, in the long run.

 

[arauca]

I get where you're coming from, arauca. I'm just showing another POV, is all. I just don't believe everything is "for sale." (that's neither here nor there for this discussion, i suppose)

I'm not judging someone's choice in the matter, I'm speaking more to the point of how legalizing prostitution will not lessen the crime of rape, all things being equal, and it won't benefit society, in the long run.

I am not philosophizing I am sur presenting some of one mans fact and reasoning . My point is there are billion of man and each is a history and man and women are not perfect each of us want to satisfy our physiological needs, that is why we get married to help each other , when help is not there after a period we choose alternative . The same is with youth before marriage have taken place at lower age then now , I believe was to satisfy the physiological needs. We human have not changed the needs are there . I believe in this society if the women lib continue growing and get away from responsibility of marriage deteriorate prostitution will grow and so will be the immorality. So my point is let women become wife otherwise brothels will be a need.

 

[James R]

arauca,

I know we come from different hemisphere . Let say you are office manager , and you have some desire for a chick in your office , and there is a case for promotion of the girl on whom you have the desire . so you approach her in a nice way , by telling her if she puts up you give her promotion if not she will not be promoted .
I hope it is clear.

As billvon said, that would be sexual harassment. Basically, you would be threatening the girl, saying that if she didn't have sex with you she would be risking her career progression. It's a form of bullying.

I would not say the at all . There are a large variety of reason to be prostitute , one of them an easy life.

It's certainly not an easy life for many. It's difficult to generalise.

It gives benefit to society that man have an alternative for his sex drive if his wife is not willing to help him...

Should the wife know about that her husband is visiting prostitutes, do you think? Does she have a right to know? Is it important that she should consent to it?

Let me ask this question : young man from 16-- to say 27 years old they are in the high sexual drive what should they do . Sould they get married at 17 . 18 years old seduce the girlfriend rape some relative girl, or go to a brothel ?

Masterbation is always an option.

Getting married just because you want to have sex is a very bad reason for marrying, for all kinds of reasons.

Rape, of course, is completely out of the question. It is immoral and it is a crime.

As for the other options, there's no major problem with them, as long as whichever girl is involved gives informed consent.