could a black hole send you back in time? it wouldn't do much goo, seemings how you would be thrown into a big star if so, but?
black holes
- Thread starter fusion4577
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sure...u just go to figure out how not to get disintegrates into atoms while in it.
@fusion4577
No, a black hole can't send you back in time
And it also seems that wormholes don't work either according to a few recent papers I've read.
However, it could be possible oscillate (back and forth ) between wormhole mouths (if they could be kept open long enough).
No, a black hole can't send you back in time
And it also seems that wormholes don't work either according to a few recent papers I've read.
However, it could be possible oscillate (back and forth ) between wormhole mouths (if they could be kept open long enough).
That really depends most of all on what you are made out of!!!
Sleepy Flesh just won"t do...
And we are already in a black hole moving backwards through time...even as we move forward. But I think your talking more about close approximatey, physically entering. Back to the first statement...that really depends most of all on what you are made out of!!!
Regards,
Jozen
Sleepy Flesh just won"t do...
And we are already in a black hole moving backwards through time...even as we move forward. But I think your talking more about close approximatey, physically entering. Back to the first statement...that really depends most of all on what you are made out of!!!
Regards,
Jozen
How so?
Yeah...I missed that when I first read his response. I'm pretty sure that it's not true.
Draq was on more along the correct lines. A black hole will ''mangle'' anything that enters it... but it will be squeezed back into existence at another time in the universes history or future: And since black holes existed very early on (named primordial black holes), there not like man-made time machines which are made to stay within self-consistant rules. They are natures natural time-machines.
But then... how does one pass into one and come out again without being mangled? The only was is to travel faster-than-light... and that's even impossible for matter that are bradyons, like ourselves... even though we are made up mostly of luxen energy.
Yes, most people realised that a blackhole will ''mangle'' everything.
Title: Quantum Theory Looks at Time Travel
Authors: Daniel M. Greenberger, Karl Svozil
We introduce a quantum mechanical model of time travel which includes two figurative beam splitters in order to induce feedback to earlier times. This leads to a unique solution to the paradox where one could kill one's grandfather in that once the future has unfolded, it cannot change the past, and so the past becomes deterministic.
On the other hand, looking forwards towards the future is completely probabilistic. This resolves the classical paradox in a philosophically satisfying manner.
Read More (PDF)
“Can we bring yesterday, Back around” - the Sugerbabes
No, a black hole can't send you back in time
Title: Quantum Theory Looks at Time Travel
Authors: Daniel M. Greenberger, Karl Svozil
We introduce a quantum mechanical model of time travel which includes two figurative beam splitters in order to induce feedback to earlier times. This leads to a unique solution to the paradox where one could kill one's grandfather in that once the future has unfolded, it cannot change the past, and so the past becomes deterministic.
On the other hand, looking forwards towards the future is completely probabilistic. This resolves the classical paradox in a philosophically satisfying manner.
Read More (PDF)
“Can we bring yesterday, Back around” - the Sugerbabes
No, a black hole can't send you back in time
Which bit? The first was about BH Hawking radiation , the second part was about the `Quantum Theory Looks at Time Travel` paper. You could go into the past. But by going into the past it destroys the future. Events can be treated as probability waves, so time travelling will set up destructive and constructive waves that only generally allow one time line to exist.
The paper uses a simple feedback mechanism which only generally allows one time line to exist. ie no backwards time travel - The details are in the PDF link
The paper uses a simple feedback mechanism which only generally allows one time line to exist. ie no backwards time travel - The details are in the PDF link
B
You altered your post. It made no sense before and now after a quick edit, like a neat nip and tuc, your making me out to look silly.
I understood very well the PDF link... but your original 12th post made no sense, just saying that something would leak.
Now that you have made things clearer, i shall continue...
There CAN NOT be one timeline... especially on quantum levels. So the idea of only one line is obsurd... i.e. Time-Like Curves and pathological events of relativity. To go into the past, won't be to destroy the future, as much as moving into the future of an open-universe, would be just to move into another present time, of a past time... If you get my obtuse statement.
In other words, if the universe expands forever, then there is no upper-limit to the future, and any time you move into it, will just be a prior/past time itself.
You altered your post. It made no sense before and now after a quick edit, like a neat nip and tuc, your making me out to look silly.
I understood very well the PDF link... but your original 12th post made no sense, just saying that something would leak.
Now that you have made things clearer, i shall continue...
There CAN NOT be one timeline... especially on quantum levels. So the idea of only one line is obsurd... i.e. Time-Like Curves and pathological events of relativity. To go into the past, won't be to destroy the future, as much as moving into the future of an open-universe, would be just to move into another present time, of a past time... If you get my obtuse statement.
In other words, if the universe expands forever, then there is no upper-limit to the future, and any time you move into it, will just be a prior/past time itself.
Yes, i was answering your previous post. Then i realised you had posted again.
i will need to quote you in future to avoid that.
I think you misunderstood what i was saying. i agree there is no upper-limit to the future.
The paper is regarding events as wave functions that collapse or form.
“According to our model, if you travel into the past quantum mechanically, you would only see those alternatives consistent with the world you left behind you. In other words, while you are aware of the past, you cannot change it. No matter how unlikely the events are that could have led to your present circumstances, once they have actually occurred, they cannot be changed. Your trip would set up resonances that are consistent with the future that has already unfolded.”
Here are two more papers that rule out wormholes
Title: Semi-classical wormholes and time machines are unstable
Authors: Roman V. Buniy, Stephen D.H. Hsu
(Submitted on 1 Apr 2005 (v1), last revised 8 Jun 2005 (this version, v3))
We show that Lorentzian (traversable) wormholes and time machines with semi-classical spacetimes are unstable due to their violation of the null energy condition (NEC). Semi-classicality of the energy-momentum tensor in a given quantum state (required for semi-classicality of the spacetime) implies localisation of its wavefunction in phase space, leading to evolution according to the classical equations of motion. Previous results related to violation of the NEC then require that the configuration is unstable to small perturbations.
Read more (83kb, PDF)
Title: Null energy conditions in quantum field theory
Authors: Christopher J. Fewster and Thomas A. Roman
For the quantized, massless, minimally coupled real scalar field in four-dimensional Minkowski space, we show (by an explicit construction) that weighted averages of the null-contracted stress-energy tensor along null geodesics are unbounded from below on the class of Hadamard states. Thus there are no quantum inequalities along null geodesics in four-dimensional Minkowski spacetime.
Read more
Title: Semi-classical wormholes and time machines are unstable
Authors: Roman V. Buniy, Stephen D.H. Hsu
(Submitted on 1 Apr 2005 (v1), last revised 8 Jun 2005 (this version, v3))
We show that Lorentzian (traversable) wormholes and time machines with semi-classical spacetimes are unstable due to their violation of the null energy condition (NEC). Semi-classicality of the energy-momentum tensor in a given quantum state (required for semi-classicality of the spacetime) implies localisation of its wavefunction in phase space, leading to evolution according to the classical equations of motion. Previous results related to violation of the NEC then require that the configuration is unstable to small perturbations.
Read more (83kb, PDF)
Title: Null energy conditions in quantum field theory
Authors: Christopher J. Fewster and Thomas A. Roman
For the quantized, massless, minimally coupled real scalar field in four-dimensional Minkowski space, we show (by an explicit construction) that weighted averages of the null-contracted stress-energy tensor along null geodesics are unbounded from below on the class of Hadamard states. Thus there are no quantum inequalities along null geodesics in four-dimensional Minkowski spacetime.
Read more
Right...
I've thought about this with some more thought. The idea is to violate the Null Energy.
I see that we are talking about the collapse of the wave function... but if a relativistic map assures us that the past is a present time alongside our own, then it stands to reason that there are still collapses happening in the past; also in the future. If this be the case, and no violation can disturb this string of reality, then no one can time travel into any time.
But if all the above is just a hypothesis, the past will affect the present, just as much as the future statistically effects the past... therego, you could move into the future, alter some dramatic change, and it would alter the course of the present now. If this be true, then moving into the past is just similar.
The information of the past would need to fit the future, and vice versa. Can science not just accept that a type of non-locality can effect and disturb the present, change it totally so that we wouldn't know? A sudden flux in time... a sudden change in all the statistics that it would make sense, even though it wasn't necesserally mean't to be?
I've thought about this with some more thought. The idea is to violate the Null Energy.
I see that we are talking about the collapse of the wave function... but if a relativistic map assures us that the past is a present time alongside our own, then it stands to reason that there are still collapses happening in the past; also in the future. If this be the case, and no violation can disturb this string of reality, then no one can time travel into any time.
But if all the above is just a hypothesis, the past will affect the present, just as much as the future statistically effects the past... therego, you could move into the future, alter some dramatic change, and it would alter the course of the present now. If this be true, then moving into the past is just similar.
The information of the past would need to fit the future, and vice versa. Can science not just accept that a type of non-locality can effect and disturb the present, change it totally so that we wouldn't know? A sudden flux in time... a sudden change in all the statistics that it would make sense, even though it wasn't necesserally mean't to be?
Back to the original question.
Passing through the event horizon of a black hole wouldn't send you back in time, it would effectively make you disappear relative to the outside universe. Tidal forces would also probably tear you down to the quark level.
It is theoretically possible to use a black hole to travel into the future. Traveling through the black holes gravitational field outside of the event horizon would slow your subjective time down relative to the rest of the universe due to compression of space/time depending on how close you got to the hole itself. There would be no way to travel back to your original time though.
Passing through the event horizon of a black hole wouldn't send you back in time, it would effectively make you disappear relative to the outside universe. Tidal forces would also probably tear you down to the quark level.
It is theoretically possible to use a black hole to travel into the future. Traveling through the black holes gravitational field outside of the event horizon would slow your subjective time down relative to the rest of the universe due to compression of space/time depending on how close you got to the hole itself. There would be no way to travel back to your original time though.