Bizarre origin of Satan according to genesis

J

Joeman

Eviiiiiiiil Clown
Registered Senior Member
In the beginning, according to the bible, God created a bunch of helpers even though he doesn't need any help. One of the helpers, Lucifer, a.k.a. Satan, the prince of darkness, turned out to be very very bad and waged war against God. God defeated this Satan and imprisoned him in a pit. We have no clue how anyone can win because they are transcendent beings and can't get killed or injuried.

Instead of imprisoning this Satan forever so that he can't make any trouble, God let him come out and disguise as a snake. He walked up to Eve, made her eat an apple, and cause damnation of all mankind.

He then compelled God, out of necessity, to shrink Himself and exhibit Himself on the cross in the shape of a man, and get beaten, spit on, stoned, pierced ... (All because Eve ate an apple.)

Was Satan really defeated? After the war against God, God continue to let him hang around. Not only that, Satan has gotten a hell lot bigger. Before Satan was just a little angel. Now Satan is OMNIPRESENT! He is everywhere and is caused all kinds of miseries.

Why hasn't Christianity become the number one religions in every country yet? According to most Christians, that's because of the cultural and geographical isolation. Since Christians say all other religions besides Christianity are Satanic, Satan somehow is not bounded by this cultural, language, and geographical problem. Satan has become bigger than God!

The truth is Christianity could not have survived without inventing Satan. They need to use Satan to demonize their theological opponents. They need Satan to explain the unexplainable, such as why do miracles, dreams, and visions can occur to followers of other religions. Because of the importance of Satan, they may as well adopt Satan as the forth part of the quadrinity!
 
What Satan represents is a vital and necessary part of any theology that aspires to all creation. What Christians have done to those ideas represented in Satan is a demonstration in the futility of selfishness.
 
Joeman: In the beginning, according to the bible, God created a bunch of helpers even though he doesn't need any help. One of the helpers, Lucifer, a.k.a. Satan, the prince of darkness, turned out to be very very bad and waged war against God. God defeated this Satan and imprisoned him in a pit. We have no clue how anyone can win because they are transcendent beings and can't get killed or injuried.

Instead of imprisoning this Satan forever so that he can't make any trouble, God let him come out and disguise as a snake. He walked up to Eve, made her eat an apple, and cause damnation of all mankind.

He then compelled God, out of necessity, to shrink Himself and exhibit Himself on the cross in the shape of a man, and get beaten, spit on, stoned, pierced ... (All because Eve ate an apple.)

Was Satan really defeated? After the war against God, God continue to let him hang around. Not only that, Satan has gotten a hell lot bigger. Before Satan was just a little angel. Now Satan is OMNIPRESENT! He is everywhere and is caused all kinds of miseries.

Why hasn't Christianity become the number one religions in every country yet? According to most Christians, that's because of the cultural and geographical isolation. Since Christians say all other religions besides Christianity are Satanic, Satan somehow is not bounded by this cultural, language, and geographical problem. Satan has become bigger than God!

The truth is Christianity could not have survived without inventing Satan. They need to use Satan to demonize their theological opponents. They need Satan to explain the unexplainable, such as why do miracles, dreams, and visions can occur to followers of other religions. Because of the importance of Satan, they may as well adopt Satan as the forth part of the quadrinity!
*************
M*W: Lucifer, Satan, and the Devil, are all names for the constellation Serapens, a group of stars. When Lucifer "rebelled against God," there was a massive meteor shower that looked to early humans like a rebellion in the heavens. Still, there were no gods except what early humans could imagine. When "Lucifer rebelled against God in the heavens," the ancient humans saw falling stars and meteors and called it "a war in the heavens." It's time to grow up, people.
 
Do you think the constellation was called Lucifar, Satan, and Devil were used to name the constellation before the people had any idea of what a God was? Then, if not, was the constellation named prior to or after the invention of Christianity? If after, how do you know it was this specific constellation?
 
Well If He Was Fabricated To Give Christianity Longevity, Then This Fictional Character Has Done His Job Of Deception, By Making People
Believe That He Doesnt Exist And That Hes Fabricated From The Mouths And Pens Of Men.......when Shall We Wake From The Slumber...sleep No More People
 
God let him come out and disguise as a snake. He walked up to Eve, made her eat an apple, and cause damnation of all mankind.
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While the idea of Satan and the Serpent being one and the same is inextricably tied together in the popular culture, I don't think that that is what is implied at all. It wasn't Satan at all. But just what it said. A serpent. And because he was such an asshole he was cursed to go down on his belly for all time.

Why would God punish all serpents for the actions of Satan?
Err. Well. I guess God's done worse, but regardless...


Now. As to Satan in the bible. He's not in very much is he? People often think that he is the Serpent, but I don't think so. I know that he was in Job and also in the New Testament tempting Jesus. But where else?

Anyone up on their Satan research? It's been too long for me. Bored with it all, frankly.


Medicine Woman,

Interesting notion, but what's your proof?
Are you sure that the constellation is the same constellation that the ancient Hebrews saw? You do know that constellations are cultural, right?


Sleep no more,

Don't Capitalize Every Word Of Your Post. It's Hella Annoying And You Will Be Faced With An Eternity In The Pit Of Hellfire And Damnation If You Continue.

I really don't get why people do that. It's makes a simple post complicated. How much time is spent reaching for the shift key that could instead be used actually thinking of things to say?
 
Ozymandias said:
The stories are figurative. Move on, joeman.
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Yup. You are right. So is the part about Jesus being Son of God. In actuality, he was killed for being a public nuisanse. That's all.
 
No, you are wrong about that. Sorry. The Old Testament and New Testament are entirely different.
 
The Old Testament comes from oral tradition, they are just stories that have been passed down (stories with moral themes). Unless, of course, you really think that Moses took his staff and used it to not only part the Sea of Reeds but also call down plagues on Egypt ...

The New Testament also has metaphors -- the parables that Jesus uses, for instance, aren't to be taken literally. That does not mean that the New Testament as a whole is undermined -- it was written from an entirely different basis by different authors in a different time and cultural context.

What is your point?
 
The funny thing about the new testament is that it was written so long after the times that it spoke about.

Why?

Because the prophecy spoken by Jesus was that the Kingdom of God would come in the lifetimes of those then living. In other words, there was no need to write them down because there weren't going to be any future generations to hand them down to.

But, time passed and people got older and older and older and eventually figured that they better write them down before the 'knowledge' was lost.

In other words, the new testament is a bunch of folk tales too. Granted, they weren't distorted over so many generations the way the old testament was, but they were distorted. You can see the distortions easily in the discrepancies of the various books.

So. The new testament is different than the old testament? The why don't the stories match?

Unless, of course, you really think that Moses took his staff and used it to not only part the Sea of Reeds but also call down plagues on Egypt ...
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Why not? It's as likely as Jesus rising from the dead, isn't it?


And as to the intent of the authors. I find it likely that most of the old testament was actually written after the return from exile in Babylon. It was done for a purpose. The purpose of moralizing the remaining Hebrews behind an 'ancient' tradition.

There are also other times written of in the bible when the book of the law is 'found' in the temple. I forget which king. It started with a J and he was young.

Anyway.
It's all smoke and mirrors.
 
Thank you, Joeman. I couldn't remember the specifics and was having a hard time searching for them. I was searching for "those now living" and kept coming up with Mormon and Jehovah's Witness sites. Not what I was looking for.

Christianity was a doomsday cult that somehow managed to survive when doomsday never arrived. At least the comet guys had enough courtesy to commit suicide to ride their comet to heaven. What did the christians do to bring about their kingdom of god? Hmm?

Where is the conflict in these passages with what has happened?
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Oh. Come on.
Why am I in this subforum?
What did I forget??

Kingdom of God ring any bells?
 
Ha-Satan translates as 'the prosecutor'. This goes along with the idea of god being the ultimate judge. Satan has a very important role to fill.
 
Ozymandias said:
Where is the conflict in these passages with what has happened?
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Matthew 24:

This generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

All these things within the context = complete package, which includes

1. end of the world
2. gathering of the saint
3. judgement day
4. the glorious second coming

All before "this generation" pass away. This generation can only mean the generation which Jesus is speaking to (the generation of his disciples) or else Jesus is trying to fool a lot of people.

The next verse says "But as to that day and the exact time no one knows--not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

That means the exact milisecond is unknown, but the upper limit is already given, which is "this generation"
 
Sorry.

I had guessed that you had talked with someone about the translation, as that's what I always turn to when I find biblical discrepancies. The original aramaic word that translates to "generation" here does not indicate a generation in the length that you mean it -- a lifetime. I don't speak aramaic, but I think that the word is svatho. It means a generation in two senses -- 1. a familial sense, in a family tree sense and 2. a "people"/"populace" sense.

Going on the first interpretation: unless every single descendant of every person who had heard him speak throughout his lifetime had died, there is no reason to see any conflict with the passages you cited and what has happened.

My pastor also says that it can be translated to mean a populace, as in the "svatho" of Israel. (I haven't heard this explanation as often, though.) In this sense, there is still no conflict with the passages you cited and what has happened. The people of Israel have not been wiped off of the face of the earth.
 
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