Birds Caught in the Act of Becoming a New Species

cosmictraveler

Be kind to yourself always.
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A study of South American songbirds completed by the Department of Biology at Queen's University and the Argentine Museum of Natural History, has discovered these birds differ dramatically in colour and song yet show very little genetic differences, indicating they are on the road to becoming a new species.

"One of Darwin's accomplishments was to show that species could change, that they were not the unaltered, immutable products of creation," says Leonardo Campagna, a Ph.-D biology student at the Argentine Museum of Natural History in Buenos Aires, who studied at Queen's as part of his thesis. "However it is only now, some 150 years after the publication of his most important work, On the Origin of Species, that we have the tools to begin to truly understand all of the stages that might lead to speciation which is the process by which an ancestral species divides into two or more new species."

For decades scientists have struggled to understand all of the varied forces that give rise to distinct species. Mr. Campagna and his research team studied a group of nine species of South American seedeaters (finches) to understand when and how they evolved.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111208121408.htm
 
That's very interresting, but, how long will it take to make them another specie? some thousands of years maybe?
Don't you think that the cities do affect the evolution and the mutations of animals esspecially birds, even when humans feed the animals? After all, everyone loves the easy way and the short way, even animals do.

P.S: I'm theist (I beleive in God), and I do beleive in the evolution theory, it doesnt oppose in anyway with the creation idea for a theist, so I don't know why do you always have to seperate those two ideas, evolution and creation, like if evolution =/= creation. (Just expressing an opinion, so this is out of topic, no need to discuss it here :D )
 
Very commendable shadow.

Another example that no one ever cites is Icelandic arctic charr morphs.
 
That's very interresting, but, how long will it take to make them another specie? some thousands of years maybe?
Don't you think that the cities do affect the evolution and the mutations of animals esspecially birds, even when humans feed the animals? After all, everyone loves the easy way and the short way, even animals do.
And, as such, anthropic influences become evolutionary pressures - those birds that have features that humans regard as endearing become selectively bred for, because the birds that are able to endear themselves to humans are (potentially) more successful - at least in an urban environment.
 
Mr. Campagna and his research team studied a group of nine species of South American seedeaters (finches) to understand when and how they evolved.

Southern Finches supporting Darwin again, eh? They're evolving alright: into a left "wing" liberal "splinter" group! :p

So once they have diverged to the point that presumably their behavior will not allow breeding with their earlier line, even though genetically it's feasible, they are now vulnerable to mutation like never before.

This would be drastically different than the crossbreeding of, say, breeds of dogs who look completely different (although bark and song seem incomparable) and will not differentiate, as they are equal-opportunity (if not opportunistic) with respect to mating.

Also supported by this is the idea that the common ancestor who first developed song was setting the stage for a novel way to encourage speciation. Even the audible spectrum became a niche.
 
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And, as such, anthropic influences become evolutionary pressures - those birds that have features that humans regard as endearing become selectively bred for, because the birds that are able to endear themselves to humans are (potentially) more successful - at least in an urban environment.

Cats however, on the other hand, can live both in wild, and with humans, so they can live in both urban and natural environements, so they adapted for both environements, a house cat, can still hunt, well, mostly.
 
A study of South American songbirds completed by the Department of Biology at Queen's University and the Argentine Museum of Natural History, has discovered these birds differ dramatically in colour and song yet show very little genetic differences, indicating they are on the road to becoming a new species.
It seems like they're jumping to a conclusion by inferring that once a population becomes established with a different appearance, it's on its inexorable way to becoming a new species. It has to become a subspecies first, and not all populations do that. Their environment could revert to its previous condition long before any significant mutation or genetic drift occurs. Besides, the logic of that assertion escapes me. The essence of speciation is genetic differentiation. To say that population with very little genetic difference is "on the way to becoming a new species" does not make sense. Skin color is a very ephemeral trait in humans and to change color requires very little genetic manipulation in our species. Perhaps these birds are the same way.
That's very interesting, but, how long will it take to make them another specie? some thousands of years maybe?
(BTW, the word "species" is both singular and plural.) The only vertebrate about which I can answer that question is the polar bear. It began to split off from the black bear one hundred thousand years ago. A new ice age gave a survival advantage to a bear that was snow-colored, could swim long distances, and whose size and thick layer of fat insulated him from the freezing water. I'm not sure at what point biologists declared that this animal was a new species and not a subspecies of large white aquatic black bear, since they can still interbreed as most species within a single genus can. Probably when the polar bear became so dependent on its environment that it would never have considered crossing the no-man's land (no-bear's land?) separating their two territories, just as a black bear would never consider it because he'd stick out like a neon sign and never catch any food.

In any case, regardless of when the polar bear's speciation is considered complete, it continued to change and adapt further to its new ecological niche. The last major change was in its teeth, which happened a mere ten thousand years ago. Humans had already developed the various technologies necessary to thrive in an arctic environment so perhaps they noticed that the bears were looking a little fiercer.
Don't you think that the cities do affect the evolution and the mutations of animals esspecially birds, even when humans feed the animals? After all, everyone loves the easy way and the short way, even animals do.
Civilization in general affects the development of species. When the Christian occupiers overran North America there were two distinct species of grosbeak: the black-headed, who lived west of the giant forest along the shore of the Mississippi River, and the rose-breasted, who lived on the other side. Neither bird is an accomplished forest dweller so the forest separated their ranges. But the Americans slowly chopped down the forest and turned it into farmland, and if there's one thing both species of grosbeak love it's fruit. They converged on the farms that the settlers had so thoughtfully built for their convenience, and after dining together for a few generations some of the more adventurous individuals decided to experiment with inter-species dating. The hybrid black-headed rose-breasted grosbeaks throve and intermingled with both flocks. Today hybrid grosbeaks have made it all the way across the Rocky Mountains and are seen at feeders in California.
P.S: I'm theist (I beleive in God), and I do beleive in the evolution theory, it doesnt oppose in anyway with the creation idea for a theist, so I don't know why do you always have to seperate those two ideas, evolution and creation, like if evolution =/= creation. (Just expressing an opinion, so this is out of topic, no need to discuss it here.
Since you asked... it is not we who do that, it is the other guys. Many (perhaps most) of them don't understand that evolution only refers to the development of new organisms from old ones; they think it includes the process by which the first organism arose. That's the hypothesis of abiogenesis, and that is what stands in opposition to the hypothesis of divine creation.
This would be drastically different than the crossbreeding of, say, breeds of dogs who look completely different (although bark and song seem incomparable) and will not differentiate, as they are equal-opportunity (if not opportunistic) with respect to mating.
Wolves began evolving into dogs a mere twelve thousand years ago so their gene pool has not had enough time to splinter, although they are now counted as a specific subspecies of wolf due to the accelerated adaptation caused by human-selected breeding.

As to bark vs. song, some animals have highly developed vocal organs and some don't. Many species of birds have very versatile musculature that allows them to make long intricate songs. The human vocal organs are also spectacularly well developed, allowing us to invent the technology of language. Those of the dog are simply not.
Cats however, on the other hand, can live both in wild, and with humans, so they can live in both urban and natural environements, so they adapted for both environements, a house cat, can still hunt, well, mostly.
Cats have only been domesticated about half as long as dogs so their DNA has not had as much time to diverge. The domestic cat is the North African subspecies of wildcat, Felis silvestris lybica. When Egyptian agriculture required the invention of granaries, the rodents quickly helped themselves to the bounty of food, and the wildcats followed them. The humans were happy to have them--just as several thousand years earlier they had been happy to let the lazier members of the local wolf clan move into their village, eat the stinking garbage and play with their children (and remember which was which ;)).

Cats have really had no time to evolve. They're still genetically almost completely indistinguishable from their wild cousins--even a Siamese or a Manx.
 
A study of South American songbirds completed by the Department of Biology at Queen's University and the Argentine Museum of Natural History, has discovered these birds differ dramatically in colour and song yet show very little genetic differences, indicating they are on the road to becoming a new species.

Good thing it's in South America; you can get arrested for that in Texas.
 
A study of South American songbirds completed by the Department of Biology at Queen's University and the Argentine Museum of Natural History, has discovered these birds differ dramatically in colour and song yet show very little genetic differences, indicating they are on the road to becoming a new species.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111208121408.htm
Full article:

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2011/11/25/rspb.2011.2170.full.pdf+html
 
Must Read: "Beak of the Finch"

Evolution doesn't take thousands of years, it comes and goes and mucks about. Beak sizes fluctuate year after year, even a storm changes the evolution of the finch in a dramatic way. The notion that we are bound to historic gaps in evolution are solely because the gap in fossil evidence for animals like Dinosaurs. But now that we sufficient data we can can see rapid evolution day by day.
 
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Humans have been breeding animals for years, playing the role of selector. Although this is not natural selection, it has always demonstrated, from ancient time, that through this human selection process, animal change was possible.

For example, there are all types of dogs in terms of size, coloration, and shape. There are also dogs breeds who have particular skills such as scent dogs, hunting dogs, bird dogs, watch dogs, herding dogs, fighter dogs, etc., But these are not considered separate species, inspire of wider differences than those birds. Why are these not considered separate species of dogs? Is cataloging a subjective thing?

In my humble opinion, the ancient people did not catalog animals based on tiny differences like modern science, but would treat species like we do with dogs. They would call them all dogs no matter color, size, temperament, skills, etc., This general method of cataloging of animals, as opposed to cataloging based on subtle differentiation or even geographic distinctions, resulted in far fewer categories, making change between the broad based cataloging, rare.

Although we can breed dogs and get all shapes, sizes and colors, and behaviors, we never get a cat or buffalo. We call everything we get a dog, period. Today, different color toe nails on a wild animal would be a new species based on the more detailed method of cataloging. The ancient would still call that a cat. Based on the ancient cataloging method, have we even witnesses an entirely new critter come from another species, all ready to start it own lineage? I sure it has happened during evolution but I am not sure if human witness records of live animals will show this. The ancient catalog was assumed to have been created because of that.
 
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.Since you asked... it is not we who do that, it is the other guys. Many (perhaps most) of them don't understand that evolution only refers to the development of new organisms from old ones; they think it includes the process by which the first organism arose. That's the hypothesis of abiogenesis, and that is what stands in opposition to the hypothesis of divine creation.
I think that it doesnt oppose to creation in any way, because God created the laws of the universe, and with those laws, God created everything, God told us to search and try to see how life began and etc... so we can try to find out how life started and etc... (and we can always add the word God :D )



Cats have really had no time to evolve. They're still genetically almost completely indistinguishable from their wild cousins--even a Siamese or a Manx.

Then we can say that that is in their nature, to adapt and get close to other creatures that makes no threat to them and helps them to survive, like parasites somehow.




& ty, your post was informative.
 
For example, there are all types of dogs in terms of size, coloration, and shape. There are also dogs breeds who have particular skills such as scent dogs, hunting dogs, bird dogs, watch dogs, herding dogs, fighter dogs, etc., But these are not considered separate species, inspire of wider differences than those birds. Why are these not considered separate species of dogs? Is cataloging a subjective thing?
There is no clear, simple, universally accepted definition of a "species." But in general you won't get into too much trouble if you call a species:
"A population of organisms sharing a gene pool, which under normal circumstances do not interbreed with members of other populations, even if they have the opportunity, the physical ability and the genetic compatibility."​
Thus:
  • Lions and tigers are separate species. Hybrids (called ligers or tigons depending on which parent was the male) have been produced in captivity, but never in a natural environment.
  • Wolves and coyotes are separate species. Lately they have been cross-breeding in Canada, but this is because there are so few wolves that they can't always find a mate, and probably also because some coyotes doubtless reason that if their offspring are larger than those of their pack-mates they might have a survival advantage.
  • Wolves and dogs are a single species. While a wolf might regard a small dog as food, they often mate with dogs of their own size.
In fact, wolves and dogs are different enough to be called subspecies. Dogs have smaller brains to accommodate the lower-protein diet of a scavenger, they have teeth that are more suited to an omnivorous diet than to ripping apart a wildebeest, and they are much more gregarious, even with "pack-mates" of other species. This is because of the changes in dog DNA since we have taken control of their breeding.

The various dog breeds regard each other as fellows and have no reservations about mating, even to the extent of finding creative ways to overcome a colossal size difference. People are astounded to find their Rottweiler, who they didn't even know was pregnant, whelping a litter of tiny half-Chihuahua pups, who have to be hand-fed because their mouths aren't big enough to hold the nipples. The other extreme is more dire, a Shih-Tzu bitch with a single half-Labrador puppy that must be delivered by Caesarean section, and also has to be hand-fed because she can't produce enough milk for him.
Although we can breed dogs and get all shapes, sizes and colors, and behaviors, we never get a cat or buffalo. We call everything we get a dog, period. Today, different color toe nails on a wild animal would be a new species based on the more detailed method of cataloging.
This is not true. You need to take a few more biology classes to expand your knowledge of genetics.
The ancient would still call that a cat.
The ancients knew virtually no science. They had no microscopes or computers so not only could they not analyze DNA, they didn't even know it existed. Today we classify animals, plants, fungi, algae, bacteria and archaea (the six Kingdoms of living organisms) according to their DNA.
Based on the ancient cataloging method, have we even witnessed an entirely new critter come from another species, all ready to start it own lineage?
There are two forces that drive evolution: mutation, which creates new genes, and environmental change, which alters natural selection to favor new genetic combinations. There was more radiation four billion years ago when the earth was young, so mutations occurred more often, but today the rate is much slower. The same can be said for environmental change, since the planet is more stable that it used to be and about the only major force to alter natural selection is the global warming and cooling cycle, which waxes and wanes a few times in the course of one million years.

I'm not a biologist and the only group of organisms I can claim any scientific knowledge of is animals. For the larger animals that generally breed on an annual cycle, it usually takes several tens of thousands of years for a new species to arise. The only mammal I'm aware of that evolved recently is the polar bear. Its speciation form the black bear began about 100KYA (KYA = "thousands of years ago") and completed somewhere around 10KYA when its teeth reached their current configuration. The only bird I know of in this category is the bald eagle. I don't know when it began to speciate from the white-tailed eagle but this speciation was also complete around 10KYA.
I sure it has happened during evolution but I am not sure if human witness records of live animals will show this. The ancient catalog was assumed to have been created because of that.
The technology of writing was invented during the Bronze Age around 5KYA. Before that there were no records except a few paintings, which were hardly detailed enough to distinguish two closely related species from each other.

Other phyla of animals reproduce more quickly and may go through several generations in a year. Perhaps new species of worms have arisen on our watch, but I've never heard of them being mentioned in the writings of the ancient Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Indians or Chinese. ;) Bacteria of course can reproduce several times in one day so perhaps they spin off new species all the time. But nobody even knew they existed until the microscope was invented.

The bottom line is that species (as well as all the higher taxonomic groups: genera, families, orders, classes, phyla and kingdoms) are classified by their member organisms' DNA and by whether or not they routinely breed with a group with only slightly different DNA--not by the color of their toenails. Pomeranians and St. Bernards are one species; their DNA is almost indentical and they will try valiantly to interbreed if you leave them alone together. Donkeys and zebras are two species; their DNA is considerably different and they will only interbreed with human encouragement--including not having any available mates of their own species around.

Obviously we don't have DNA from organisms more than a few thousand years old, so when paleontologists find a fossil they just have to do the best they can to classify it and decide whether it's a new species. We do a much better job of it with living organisms, or ones that haven't been dead for so long that the DNA in their bones has been replaced by minerals.
 
For example, there are all types of dogs in terms of size, coloration, and shape. There are also dogs breeds who have particular skills such as scent dogs, hunting dogs, bird dogs, watch dogs, herding dogs, fighter dogs, etc., But these are not considered separate species, inspire of wider differences than those birds. Why are these not considered separate species of dogs?

Because they are genetically very similar, and can still interbreed.

In my humble opinion, the ancient people did not catalog animals based on tiny differences like modern science, but would treat species like we do with dogs. They would call them all dogs no matter color, size, temperament, skills, etc.

Yes. They might. They might call donkeys and horses the same species, because they're sorta similar, just different sizes.

But they'd be wrong.

Although we can breed dogs and get all shapes, sizes and colors, and behaviors, we never get a cat or buffalo. We call everything we get a dog, period.

Right - because it's still the same species.

Today, different color toe nails on a wild animal would be a new species based on the more detailed method of cataloging.

Uh - no.
 
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