Bill Gates: treating software like drugs too hook consumers

DJSupreme23

neocortex activated
Registered Senior Member
Regarding "Palladium":

http://www.gnutella.com/news/7058

Bill Gates was talking to business school students at the University of Washington and was quoted in the the July 20, 1998, Fortune Magazine as saying:

"Although about three million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

Drug dealer tactics.
 
Business tactics.

Do you think he got so successful by holding up a giant sign that said "I'm an idiot, please screw me over"?
 
Yes, of course. And I'm sure the multiple lawsuits from several different countries are because of a large-scale conspiracy, and nothing to do with the fact that even in the US, there are ethical restraints on business tactics.
 
Right on all counts

I think the drug analogy holds.

The counterpoint is stained by two prejudices:

(1) Drug dealers are bad
(2) Business leaders are good

These prejudices are unfounded. The black market is raw capitalism at its unfortunate best, a simple issue of supply and demand.

The same "addiction" tactics are openly used by Coca Cola, Phillip Morris, and others. And their drugs are very addictive.

Software as a drug? Maybe entertainment software. But until Microsoft makes computing affordable, they can't win on this strategy.

Where one might steal grandma's pearls to pay for crack, one simply steals the software. While I'm under the impression that Chinese piracy is more organized than American P2P piracy, all that means is that once Microsoft establishes a legitimate market against organized pirates, they'll have to put up with a billion Chinese on Gnutella. And there's an old saying that a billion Chinese can't be wrong. (I have no idea where this odd phrase comes from.)

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Re: Right on all counts

Originally posted by tiassa
I think the drug analogy holds.

This may come as a big surprise, but I sort of disagree. :eek:

Originally posted by tiassa
The counterpoint is stained by two prejudices:

(1) Drug dealers are bad
(2) Business leaders are good

But the point is basically stained by similar prejudices; that drug dealers are bad because they attempt to get their customers addicted, and therefore a company that attempts to foster reliance on its products is equally bad.

Originally posted by tiassa
These prejudices are unfounded. The black market is raw capitalism at its unfortunate best, a simple issue of supply and demand.

I agree.

Originally posted by tiassa
The same "addiction" tactics are openly used by Coca Cola, Phillip Morris, and others. And their drugs are very addictive.

There is a big difference between the biological addiction to cigarettes and drugs and the reliance of customers on the products of one particular company which is usually based on economics.

I can use myself as an example:

I am currently 26 years old and have had about half a dozen computers since I was a junior high school student. All have been PCs with Microsoft operating systems. The first three or four were purchased for me by my parents, who insisted on PCs over Apple or other non-Windows operating systems simply for compatibility issues for doing schoolwork. By the time I got into college and started buying my own computers I had so many thousands of dollars wrapped up in software (mostly games) that it would have been a huge waste of money for me to buy a computer that uses any operating system other than Windows. The same would have happened had I started with nothing but Apple computers and then decided to switch to Windows-based PCs. It was purely an economic consideration, and I see nothing immoral about companies fostering such situations.

Originally posted by tiassa
And there's an old saying that a billion Chinese can't be wrong. (I have no idea where this odd phrase comes from.)

Kiefer Sutherland said it in The Lost Boys, but I don't know if that's where it originated.
 
But the point is basically stained by similar prejudices; that drug dealers are bad because they attempt to get their customers addicted, and therefore a company that attempts to foster reliance on its products is equally bad.
Galt, there is a difference between reliance on a product because it does a task so well as to be indispensable, and reliance on a product because of unethical business practises, propaganda and built-in obselesence.

I can use myself as an example:
As can I.
I am currently 26 years old and have had about two dozen computers since I was a secondary school student, between personal ownership and professional responsibility. Some have been PCs with Microsoft operating systems. Some have been non-PC platforms (anyone else remember the ICL OPD or the Apple 2?). Some have been non-standard (a hand-built 68000 system with hand-written assembly, a 6502-based system with hand-built custom software and a hand-written RTOS, and a PC104 system). With the exception of the Win98 box I'm using now (it's not mine), all the machines I use now are running Debian Linux. Because, in my professional and personal opinions, it's the best available OS for the job.
I became sick of an OS that was unable to handle running continously, which couldn't multitask under heavy load, that was continously crashing, which couldn't be accessed remotely, and which cost far too much while providing a tiny fraction of the functionality and stability of the software available on the other systems I was used to.
So I switched to a free version of unix called linux and never looked back, and I've never since met a problem I couldn't solve on linux. Which is something I could never say about Microsoft.

By the time I got into college and started buying my own computers I had so many thousands of dollars wrapped up in software (mostly games) that it would have been a huge waste of money for me to buy a computer that uses any operating system other than Windows.
I'll grant that windows is currently far better for running games - but frankly, if you're going to be running games on a PC, you're better off not doing any work on it, because of the induced instability in the platform.

What's more interesting to me than all of that, however, is why the current version of Windows needs a P4 running at a few GHz to work well, even if all you're doing is preparing a document in word - while I'm happily writing my thesis on a Toshiba Tecra 740CDT - which has an original Pentium 166 on it. I can't even load any version of windows on that laptop, let alone do any work on it under windows!
In other words, why can't I do that in windows? Because of built-in obselesence.

I see nothing immoral about companies fostering such situations.
Nor do I, if they do so by providing a better mousetrap, so to speak - but they don't. Microsoft has had a large number of lawsuits filed against it for unethical business practises. It's used propaganda and what's come to be known as FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) tactics, "Astroturf" campaigns, and it's even gotten the US state department to support it's business over other US businesses abroad.

Like I said, if their products were good enough, that'd be one thing. But they're not.
 
Personally, Micro$oft has lost my vote of confidence, I'm an MCSE but now only just for the bling-bling, as soon as time permits I'm changing qualifications to something more pallatable like Linux or MAc OS X qualifications, UNIX whatever.... anything but M$ I 've watched their development over the years & I don;t like it- it stinks of something I'd rather not be around - like you would distance yourself from a smell same with me I'm enough. MCSEs have been used continually to pay for exams as they are 'retired' quickly, to convince corporations on their deployment over & over
again even when reality would be to use a free Linux server but corps stick to their advisors who say M$, M$....agh the futility of any other suggestions in this din speak volumes for the failure for even free , powerful software to fail (generally speaking & all things being equal of course)
Anyway to the point - M$ & DRM could spell a lot of trouble for average everyday users 'cause not all of us have corporate expenditure at our disposal & cant keep up with this 1 routine circus act anymore - it will cost heaps in the future I reckon that cost you pay is used seemingly to develop only new ways to make sure you pay again next time round there are hardly any ground-breaking features from version to version that warrant a 'pay-for-upgrade' most of the time its eye-candy & "short-cuts"

Come on, clearly M$ has taken this too far, for myself I'm off the bandwagon soon- enough! Already i use less & less of M$ related software from OS to developer & general stuff the net is bursting at the seams with alternatives
M$ can almost be likened to the "one ring to rule them...& in the darkness bind them"

not really - but there!!!
:p
 
I have to ask: IF it was YOU that developed the OS-in-question would YOU want the "billion Chinese" stealing your work?

Think about it. They love the product enough to steal it. It undercuts a nation's economy. This hurtys people in the modern world. While the Chinese steal "food" from our mouths should we say it's OK?
 
Originally posted by Eman Resu
IF it was YOU that developed the OS-in-question would YOU want the "billion Chinese" stealing your work?
Wrong problem! I'm proud to do it! I've got Win95/98/2000/NT/XP/2003 and none is paid but the Win95 that was provided with my first computer. Why? Because it costs a lot to upgrade something that doesn't work as you could expect... About the Chinese that would stole that OS : who cares about it? I mean Bill is rich enough (n°1) and Micro$oft doesn't earn so much money from its OS (it's a little part of their incomes) so...
One more thing : why do you think that Micro$oft would let them use their OS without paying for it? Because Micro$oft will earn money with the others incomes (society, government...). That's software addiction! Use Windows at home or at work and then, you will need to use it everywhere as it will be the only thing you know.
 
The dominance of any particular OS in a knowledge driven industry could stall the growth of knowledge, as it is we have myriads of clever people programming to microsoft APIs, they have no idea what the core code is like, if all these people were in the open-source movement they could be re-directing their time & knowledge where it will make a diference. As it is the only person dictating the pace in the OS industry is MS, we are all waiting on microsoft to tell us what we're ready or not ready to use....tut tut
 
Fraggle - "Don't panic"

Actually, I thought the whole "Start" button was a marketing gimmick that came from the conundrum of how to copy a GUI without copying a GUI. I mean, nobody pretends the old MacOS was an original-looking GUI ... I saw virtually the same one on an Atari 1040ST.

And I forget exactly what it is that Microsoft did or said before 1995, but at the time, they couldn't just put their logo for the "Start" button because that would be tipping their hand to Apple just a little too much. Remember: Congratulations Microsoft, on Windows '95. Love, Macintosh '85.

What crushes me is that I have a friend who works at Microsoft. He was so stoked about Win2K or whatever and never said word one about Xtra Porky. And then it was .NET, and nary a word about Xtra Porky. And then in March a few years ago, Apple starts giving out betas of OSX. By summer, Windows XP arrives in the stores, and as far as I can tell from anyone who ever developed anything for it (company people where I worked, and so forth) it was an aesthetic makeover first and an operating system second. I've only used two XP computers, and I can't stand it.

Doesn't Microsoft get it? For all the crap Apple takes about the way things look, they make insanely good gear. If you make good software, people won't care what it looks like. I remember when something as puffy-looking as XP was derided as the work of bitter Linux developers. What does that say about OSX?

At least Apple makes computers. Steve Jobs knows that the day is coming when software isn't worth any more than its weight in electricity. I read an article the other day where Adobe was citing Apple's new applications as their reason to not release for Mac in the future. Hey, you know what? A year and a half late at seven-hundred dollars a pop isn't going to sell squat to people who don't need a full photo suite and just want to email pictures to grandma. How much do we pay for our Macs? Keep the software coming, Steve. Safari may or may not have been planned all along, but neither Opera nor OmniWeb nor iCab (the latter two being Mac exclusive, I think) nor Internet Explorer ever ran according to the Native Event Model. (Note: I have no idea what that actually is, but I get the gist of what noncompliance brings, and that was not Apple's response to the page-rendering flap early in the sunflower iMac release, but a comment from a guy working on Opera.) But I mean, really ... "How many copies of the program can I sell?" versus "What do our users want? Wait ... what do they say they need?"

Who's going to bring you the better product?

However, I'm just rambling, so ... yeah. At any rate, the title is more an esoteric explanation than any form of admonition. It's my pseudo-Zen mind-garden of the week.

Or ... something.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Microsoft didn't become the largest and most widely accepted company overnight and obviously they are doing something right. Not just that, they have the money to have the best business men and people running the company. I know people that hate microsoft, but they are the same ones that would use win 98 forever if Microsoft pulled out of the industry. If Microsoft pulled out of the industry, some other company would make an identical program to windows anyway, they would probably call it mirrors or doors. The Doors would be fine, but then they would get sued for infringement by The Doors manager.
 
It won't sell here of course, because there's too much of an investment in PCs and Windows-based systems; it would be too expensive to re-engineer it all on a new platform. (fraggle)

have there been examples of situations when an old tech was abandoned for a new one, albeit at a considerable cost initially? what if the govt provided financial incentives? (like when i installed a low flush toilet):D

america will profit. apple and microsoft wont!
 
Re: Right on all counts

Originally posted by tiassa
But until Microsoft makes computing affordable, they can't win on this strategy.

What kind of deranged fantasy world are you living in that you can not see that this is already the case? Not only have they made it affordable, but easy enough, and useful enough that just about anyone can learn how to use a computer in their free time, and can do some pretty fucking handy stuff and even make money off it if they should be so inclined. Microsoft is one of the biggest reasons that home computers have become just as popular as the family television, and there is hardly a business in operation today who does not utilize them.
 
you got numbers? simple systems for the home or small business might be fairly cost effective to use but what of large industries?

IT accounts for a larger and larger proportion of corporate budgets, as information systems become central to the whole business operation. However, assessing the real return on investment (ROI) of IT resources gets more and more complex every year, and ROI is impossible to assess if we do not fully appreciate the total cost of ownership of our systems. Despite the general perception that hardware and software are cheaper than ever, personnel costs continue to rise at an alarming rate, and numerous other costs (many of them hidden) need to be taken into consideration.

http://www.xephon.com/reports/clr.html
 
But until Microsoft makes computing affordable, they can't win on this strategy.

I disagree. If they get used to Microsoft products and there comes a time where they have to pay for software, they'll choose what they're familiar with. This is a brilliant scheme.

Instead of making Gates (or drug dealers) the bad guy, why not comment on the stupid people FALLING for these schemes? Is Gates really a monster because he, as a smart person, found a way to cash in on the populace's stupidity?

Communism is for people who are to stupid too take care of themselves. Capitalism won't fuck you over if you keep your eyes open.
 
We would have less problems if Microsoft products were compatible with Linux!
Maybe that Windows 2015 will be a unix based system... :D
 
But ... but ....

Microsoft is one of the biggest reasons that home computers have become just as popular as the family television, and there is hardly a business in operation today who does not utilize them.
But Microsoft is also one of the biggest reasons every computer I used in the workplace sucked. Microsoft is one of the biggest reasons for people's low expectations of their computers. Microsoft is the biggest reason I'm an Apple user. I can't believe it took me so long to figure it out.

A Mac is worth the money. What's funny is that my old out-of-date G3/400 ruby-red iMac DV runs OSX rock-solid. I kept reading about all these minor problems people are having, and franknly I haven't had any of those problems. Seriously, once I switched platforms I wondered why I hadn't done it sooner.

Oh yeah, the video games. ;)

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
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