bigotry in belief

[Asguard]

I had a tute today in mental health about Aborigional cultures specifically and cultures in general. As part of this we had a senario where a girl whos brother had recently died was seeing him walking around the house and doing things ect. The question was "is she psycotic?"

Now we had a lecture on the ways Aborigionals express grief including actually seeing the decseased as part of the grieving and if they have neglected there duties to that person or the tribe.

Anyway i said no she is not psycotic because this is the cultural way she expresses grief and the rest of my group said yes she is psycotic because she is hallucinating.

Well i brought up imaginary friends that children have and they dismissed that so i through in christan religion. Ie its a delusion to belive that a god who cant be seen or herd is really there.

I got blasted for being insensitive and i turned to the girl and said but your doing the same thing to the girl in the senario, ie your dismissing her cultural beliefs in favor of your own.

Why is it so hard specifically for religious people to understand that just because something is expressed differently (ie as actually seeing rather than "feeling") that its just as valid as there OWN beliefs?

 

[lightgigantic]

I had a tute today in mental health about Aborigional cultures specifically and cultures in general. As part of this we had a senario where a girl whos brother had recently died was seeing him walking around the house and doing things ect. The question was "is she psycotic?"

Now we had a lecture on the ways Aborigionals express grief including actually seeing the decseased as part of the grieving and if they have neglected there duties to that person or the tribe.

Anyway i said no she is not psycotic because this is the cultural way she expresses grief and the rest of my group said yes she is psycotic because she is hallucinating.

Well i brought up imaginary friends that children have and they dismissed that so i through in christan religion. Ie its a delusion to belive that a god who cant be seen or herd is really there.

I got blasted for being insensitive and i turned to the girl and said but your doing the same thing to the girl in the senario, ie your dismissing her cultural beliefs in favor of your own.

Why is it so hard specifically for religious people to understand that just because something is expressed differently (ie as actually seeing rather than "feeling") that its just as valid as there OWN beliefs?

google "henology"

 

[Doreen]

I had a tute today in mental health about Aborigional cultures specifically and cultures in general. As part of this we had a senario where a girl whos brother had recently died was seeing him walking around the house and doing things ect. The question was "is she psycotic?"

Now we had a lecture on the ways Aborigionals express grief including actually seeing the decseased as part of the grieving and if they have neglected there duties to that person or the tribe.

Anyway i said no she is not psycotic because this is the cultural way she expresses grief and the rest of my group said yes she is psycotic because she is hallucinating.

Well i brought up imaginary friends that children have and they dismissed that so i through in christan religion. Ie its a delusion to belive that a god who cant be seen or herd is really there.

I got blasted for being insensitive and i turned to the girl and said but your doing the same thing to the girl in the senario, ie your dismissing her cultural beliefs in favor of your own.

Why is it so hard specifically for religious people to understand that just because something is expressed differently (ie as actually seeing rather than "feeling") that its just as valid as there OWN beliefs?

You think a group of atheists would have been less likely to see the aboriginal's sighting as hallucination and delusional?

 

[Asguard]

actually yes, athiests are constantly exposed to the outside of religious culture even if its there own culture. For instance people saying they still "feel" the presents of a dead loved one. If they are compleatly scientific about this they will either put it down as a halucination\delusion OR they will put it down to the way as a culture we come to terms with grief.

Therefore the second leaves them more open to understanding there own cultures peculialities and questioning them and this leads to an understanding of others.

Rember this is not a class of run of the mill adverage people, all these people have at least 2 years training in science, med specifically and at least a passing awearness of mental health\illness, how its defined and how normal psycological processes differ from mental illness

 

[Bells]

I had a tute today in mental health about Aborigional cultures specifically and cultures in general. As part of this we had a senario where a girl whos brother had recently died was seeing him walking around the house and doing things ect. The question was "is she psycotic?"

Now we had a lecture on the ways Aborigionals express grief including actually seeing the decseased as part of the grieving and if they have neglected there duties to that person or the tribe.

Anyway i said no she is not psycotic because this is the cultural way she expresses grief and the rest of my group said yes she is psycotic because she is hallucinating.

Well i brought up imaginary friends that children have and they dismissed that so i through in christan religion. Ie its a delusion to belive that a god who cant be seen or herd is really there.

I got blasted for being insensitive and i turned to the girl and said but your doing the same thing to the girl in the senario, ie your dismissing her cultural beliefs in favor of your own.

Why is it so hard specifically for religious people to understand that just because something is expressed differently (ie as actually seeing rather than "feeling") that its just as valid as there OWN beliefs?

My mother has told me on a few occasions that she saw her mother walking through the house several weeks after her mother had passed away. Funnily enough, her brothers and sisters also saw her on the same day, as apparently, did several workmen who were repairing the bathroom. The workmen did not know my grandmother and did not know that she had recently passed away. My mother often commented that she felt a sense of peace and felt safe after that episode. At the time, my mother was tutoring several of students in the living room of her family home (my mother was a school teacher and offered after class tutoring in english and mathematics) and it is my understanding that the children also saw her walk in the front door, past the archway that led into the living room and through the house and out the back door. I was told of this when my aunt once joked about how the servant had run screaming from the kitchen in terror after seeing her too.

Were they all hallucinating? Were they all instantly psychotic on the same day at around the same time? I doubt it. I think to my mother and her brothers and sisters, it was comforting to them. My mother knows it was most probably a hallucination, but I suspect some part of her draws comfort from her belief that to her, her mother was there and will always be there. I would never, ever, take that comfort or belief from her by questioning her mental state at the time, or that of my aunts and uncles.

I can't explain how they all saw her on the same day at around the same time. There was mention that my grandmother was seen at other times as well, but I never questioned further.. It is their experience and not something I could ever pry into or question them about. Nor can I explain how it could be that I dreamt about my paternal grandmother standing by my bed caressing my face and was woken up by the phone ringing, which turned out to be my father's sister in tears saying that she had passed away minutes before. I put it down to the fact that I was very close to her and knew she was close to passing away and had cried myself to sleep and had a dream about her doing something she used to do all the time when I was little (gently run her fingers around my face).

Is it cultural? I don't think so. I suspect a lot of people see their loved ones or think they see them. My aunt did a year after my uncle passed away and she had returned to live in the house they shared (she was so distraught at his death that she could not set foot in the house until about a year later). She too said at the time that it didn't scare her, but was comforting to her.

I think if someone has such an experience, it is best to not bring up imaginary friends or discuss delusions regarding beliefs in any deities, or, heaven forbid, mention the word 'psychotic'. Respect the person's grief and allow them to grieve as they see fit. If they see their loved one's after death, great to be honest.. because it can help bring them comfort after a tragic loss.

 

[Bishadi]

google "henology"

and that idea is (per wiki)

Henology (prefix hen, from Greek, for "one" or "unity") is the philosophical account or discourse on "the One" which appears most notably in the philosophy of Plotinus.[1] Reiner Schürmann describes it as a "metaphysics of radical transcendence" which extends beyond being and intellection.[2] It can be contrasted with ontology, as ontology is "an account of being" whereas henology is an "account of unity."

i guess that is why when this 'i' renders a concept, it ooosually comes with 'being' applicable to both existence and experience.

the idea to involve self with experience and learned knowledge adds a layer of geometry or physical awareness of self involved with the experience.

both responsibility and conscious awareness can develop when an individual becomes aware of the 'i' and 'existence' combine

note the thread title.................. self can create a bigotry, when the 'self' is removed from being 'responsible' to the divide.

mankind creates its own bigotry

 

[Lori_7]

My mother has told me on a few occasions that she saw her mother walking through the house several weeks after her mother had passed away. Funnily enough, her brothers and sisters also saw her on the same day, as apparently, did several workmen who were repairing the bathroom. The workmen did not know my grandmother and did not know that she had recently passed away. My mother often commented that she felt a sense of peace and felt safe after that episode. At the time, my mother was tutoring several of students in the living room of her family home (my mother was a school teacher and offered after class tutoring in english and mathematics) and it is my understanding that the children also saw her walk in the front door, past the archway that led into the living room and through the house and out the back door. I was told of this when my aunt once joked about how the servant had run screaming from the kitchen in terror after seeing her too.

Were they all hallucinating? Were they all instantly psychotic on the same day at around the same time? I doubt it. I think to my mother and her brothers and sisters, it was comforting to them. My mother knows it was most probably a hallucination, but I suspect some part of her draws comfort from her belief that to her, her mother was there and will always be there. I would never, ever, take that comfort or belief from her by questioning her mental state at the time, or that of my aunts and uncles.

I can't explain how they all saw her on the same day at around the same time. There was mention that my grandmother was seen at other times as well, but I never questioned further.. It is their experience and not something I could ever pry into or question them about. Nor can I explain how it could be that I dreamt about my paternal grandmother standing by my bed caressing my face and was woken up by the phone ringing, which turned out to be my father's sister in tears saying that she had passed away minutes before. I put it down to the fact that I was very close to her and knew she was close to passing away and had cried myself to sleep and had a dream about her doing something she used to do all the time when I was little (gently run her fingers around my face).

Is it cultural? I don't think so. I suspect a lot of people see their loved ones or think they see them. My aunt did a year after my uncle passed away and she had returned to live in the house they shared (she was so distraught at his death that she could not set foot in the house until about a year later). She too said at the time that it didn't scare her, but was comforting to her.

I think if someone has such an experience, it is best to not bring up imaginary friends or discuss delusions regarding beliefs in any deities, or, heaven forbid, mention the word 'psychotic'. Respect the person's grief and allow them to grieve as they see fit. If they see their loved one's after death, great to be honest.. because it can help bring them comfort after a tragic loss.

i love hearing about phenomena like what you've described here. thanks for sharing.

 

[spidergoat]

I am used to seeing my cat everywhere. Sometimes she actually isn't there but I think I see her, and it turns out to be nothing, or a black shirt on the floor, or a bug instead of her scratching. I think something similar happens when we lose a loved one who we are used to percieving around us. It takes time to re-train the brain to not expect that stimuli. I think this is responsible for the ghost phenomenon. So the girl in this case was probably not psychotic.

 

[Bells]

i love hearing about phenomena like what you've described here. thanks for sharing.

I don't classify it as a phenomena. I see it as a reaction to grief. I have to agree with what Spider stated.

I think something similar happens when we lose a loved one who we are used to percieving around us. It takes time to re-train the brain to not expect that stimuli.

 

[Leo Volont]

I had a tute today in mental health about Aborigional cultures specifically and cultures in general. As part of this we had a senario where a girl whos brother had recently died was seeing him walking around the house and doing things ect. The question was "is she psycotic?"

Now we had a lecture on the ways Aborigionals express grief including actually seeing the decseased as part of the grieving and if they have neglected there duties to that person or the tribe.

Anyway i said no she is not psycotic because this is the cultural way she expresses grief and the rest of my group said yes she is psycotic because she is hallucinating.

Well i brought up imaginary friends that children have and they dismissed that so i through in christan religion. Ie its a delusion to belive that a god who cant be seen or herd is really there.

I got blasted for being insensitive and i turned to the girl and said but your doing the same thing to the girl in the senario, ie your dismissing her cultural beliefs in favor of your own.

Why is it so hard specifically for religious people to understand that just because something is expressed differently (ie as actually seeing rather than "feeling") that its just as valid as there OWN beliefs?

Actually, it is VERY common to see recently dead people. Many cultures notice this phenomena. What Language does not have a word for "ghost".

yes, modern Science has decided to classify this as "psychotic". I guess it is, if that is what you want to call it. But 'psychotic' is a recent word, and this has been happening a long time before that word existed.

My ex-wife had seen her father, after he had died. His ghost had come back to check on the heater... the furnace. Was my ex-wife psychotic? Well, not typically. We usually think of psychotic episodes as being part of a chronic condition. But what of people who only see one ghost once?

Anyway, your problem is not with Religion being biased, but with Science being ... well, so dogmatic and bound up within such a narrow framework of acceptable beliefs.

 

[Leo Volont]

I am used to seeing my cat everywhere. Sometimes she actually isn't there but I think I see her, and it turns out to be nothing, or a black shirt on the floor, or a bug instead of her scratching. I think something similar happens when we lose a loved one who we are used to percieving around us. It takes time to re-train the brain to not expect that stimuli. I think this is responsible for the ghost phenomenon. So the girl in this case was probably not psychotic.

I think you need to come to terms with reality that some people do indeed have psychotic delusions... that is where the Delusional people seem just as real and corporeal as the Real People. Crazy People really can't tell the Real from the Unreal... until they get a certain degree of practice in... their experience tells them that certain among their acquiantences are Delusions and that it is best to ignore them when in the presence of other people, so that they do not think of one as being 'crazy'.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If you believe in it then you'll see it. Exposure to it, as in listening to accounts, reading books, watching TV, etc will increase your chances of encountering psychic phenomena. You're not sick, just impressionable. Nothing to worry about unless you let it govern your life. IOW's if you know it isn't real and it's just your mind playing tricks then no problem.
Go spend a night in a graveyard. Guaranteed the only ghosts there are live ones.

 

[lightgigantic]

and that idea is (per wiki)

Henology (prefix hen, from Greek, for "one" or "unity") is the philosophical account or discourse on "the One" which appears most notably in the philosophy of Plotinus.[1] Reiner Schürmann describes it as a "metaphysics of radical transcendence" which extends beyond being and intellection.[2] It can be contrasted with ontology, as ontology is "an account of being" whereas henology is an "account of unity."

i guess that is why when this 'i' renders a concept, it ooosually comes with 'being' applicable to both existence and experience.

the idea to involve self with experience and learned knowledge adds a layer of geometry or physical awareness of self involved with the experience.

both responsibility and conscious awareness can develop when an individual becomes aware of the 'i' and 'existence' combine

note the thread title.................. self can create a bigotry, when the 'self' is removed from being 'responsible' to the divide.

mankind creates its own bigotry

needless yo say, there are other henological outlooks than that posed by a radical homogeneous viewpoint .....

 

[Bishadi]

needless yo say, there are other henological outlooks than that posed by a radical homogeneous viewpoint .....

i agree.....

"bigotry in belief" is down right rude as it self inflicts isolation that is in complete contrast to harmony often sold

any religion of quality will reflect homegeniety with mankind/existence.

 

[yasmin]

@ Bells:
I agree, I believe these things really happen to people but most won't even mention due to the cynical attitude of society. It would be intersting to do some serious research about this subject.

 

[lightgigantic]

i agree.....

"bigotry in belief" is down right rude as it self inflicts isolation that is in complete contrast to harmony often sold

any religion of quality will reflect homegeniety with mankind/existence.

hence its best to apply philosophy as a rule of thumb (as opposed to dogmatic liberalism ..... which, ironically, is quite compatible with a radical homogeneous outlook)

 

[Bishadi]

hence its best to apply philosophy as a rule of thumb

which is why i lean on the only philosophy that makes sense;

the PURPOSE OF LIFE!

(as opposed to dogmatic liberalism ..... which, ironically, is quite compatible with a radical homogeneous outlook)

if you like baha'i perhaps

 

[Dywyddyr]

which is why i lean on the only philosophy that makes sense;
the PURPOSE OF LIFE!

And the assumption that there is a "purpose" to life?

 

[swarm]

The question was "is she psycotic?"

If this is the only thing she is "seeing" and it is not "making" her do things or otherwise negatively impacting her life, who cares?

Why is it so hard specifically for religious people to understand that just because something is expressed differently (ie as actually seeing rather than "feeling") that its just as valid as there OWN beliefs?

But their's are the one true and only right delusions.

 

[Doreen]

My ex-wife had seen her father, after he had died. His ghost had come back to check on the heater... the furnace. Was my ex-wife psychotic? Well, not typically. We usually think of psychotic episodes as being part of a chronic condition. But what of people who only see one ghost once?
.

I doubt very much that most psychiatrists would label someone 'psychotic' because they saw ghosts, once or even semi-regularly. If this experience began to interfere with work, parenting, etc., then some would sign on. They tend not to go after Catholics for thinking they are drinking the blood of Christ every Sunday, for example. Nor do they go after true blue neo-cons who regularly say that their trickle down ideas of economics will benefit the poor.