Big Bang soup; Hot, Cold, or Just Right

[quantum_wave]

Big Bang soup; Hot, Cold, or Just Right

The Big Bang in Quantum Wave Cosmology (QWC) is more of a big event that causes the initial expansion; a big burst in QWC terms. And from the discussion of limits to energy density and the mass/gravity functioning threshold I have proposed a sequence of events that leads to the big burst.

One of those events in the sequence is the negation of particles and radiation into dense state energy. Negation occurs in a big crunch when the energy density of the particles exceeds the density range within which matter can function.

As a result, the matter that was formerly emitting gravity has ceased to exist as matter and has become dense state energy. There is no gravity emitted from dense state energy.

This post focuses on the temperature profile of the expansion scenario. Of course it is hot. Compression of mass due to gravity causes heat much like a gas when compressed heats up (not a perfect analogy). Accretion into the crunch heats particles and plasma to billions of degrees (not a scientific description of the process). Energy levels surrounding the crunch increase as the speed of the inflowing particles/matter/radiation/plasma approach the speed of light (not a scientific description).

Unless this process is interrupted the temperature continues to increase as the accretion proceeds. How hot can something get; this is the place where it happens whatever that temperature is whether or not there is even thought to be a maximum.

But in QWC there is a maximum temperature and it is associated with this process of building a big crunch from the galactic material caught up in the overlap of intersecting arenas. Because in QWC there is a point when the buildup stops, it follows that the engine that is causing the increase in temperature gets turned off gradually until the crunch fails and the burst occurs.

BBT starts 10^-30 (according to Alan Guth in 1996) seconds after the event and talks of a most extreme temperature. It follows the temperature profile of the universe through exponential expansion (Inflation) and through the cooling process. It says that the CMBR temperature that is ~2.7 degrees K everywhere is causally connected to the big bang event or at least to the 10^-30 point in time.

QWC has the big crunch surrounded by a CMBR already before the bang event occurs. If we did a temperature profile of a big bang event in existing space surrounded by background energy at a temperature down in those lowest ranges on the Kelvin scale there would be a different sequence of events and a different temperature profile associated with the different events. That is the case with QWC.

The energy background consisting of electromagnetic radiation resulting from a long history of arena action throughout the greater universe would have a signature temperature. I don’t know what it is but speculation (using the QWC methodology for speculation) suggests a temperature slightly lower than the 2.7 degrees that we observe today within the event horizon.

Whatever that temperature might be, since the dense dark energy of the initial expansion begins to equalize with the background energy from the first instant of expansion, the Inflation scenario would change. How would it change? Would we still be looking at ~14 billion years since the Big Bang? Would we still need superluminal inflation?

 

[AlphaNumeric]

I don’t know what it is but speculation (using the QWC methodology for speculation) suggests a temperature slightly lower than the 2.7 degrees that we observe today within the event horizon.

No, it's obviously slightly higher, 3.1K.

Let's see your justification for your value of slightly less than 2.7K. I mean, you're not just randomly guessing and avoiding admitting that by relabelling 'guessing' as 'the QWC methodology for speculation', you'd not be that silly...... would you? :shrug:

 

[quantum_wave]

No, it's obviously slightly higher, 3.1K.

I know what you are saying. Why am I saying lower instead of the same or even higher like your number of 3.1K. Anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's, right.

Let's see your justification for your value of slightly less than 2.7K. I mean, you're not just randomly guessing and avoiding admitting that by relabelling 'guessing' as 'the QWC methodology for speculation', you'd not be that silly...... would you? :shrug:

The speculation starts from what I see as a consensus that the Big Bang was a hot event, the hottest event for that matter. How hot was the Big Bang?

Could it have been a hundred billion degrees Kelvin? Sure. Whatever it was at its highest, we can say that the entire universe as we think of it at 10^-30 seconds was at or near its tiniest at that point in time; the point in time when expansion began.

BBT is based on the idea that there was no space surrounding the tiny universe; space and time started at that point and inflation and expansion lead to cooling to the present ~2.7 degrees.

QWC is based on the idea that there was surrounding space that contained a background radiation and the tiny entity was a big crunch and the event was the burst of the big crunch that caused the expansion. Expansion leads to cooling to the present ~2.7 degrees.

The difference is that in QWC the surrounding space was already thermalized at some temperature. If you burst a hot big bang type event that expands into existing space that already has a background temperature, that hot expanding arena would be continually equalizing its temperature with the background temperature. You won’t get the temperature of the arena as low as the background by the process of equalization until equalization is complete. The arena will always be at a higher temperature than the background as long as there is an expanding arena still in the process of equalization.

From the QWC perspective that process is still going on and so since we are at 2.7 degrees Kelvin now, the background is speculated to be still lower than 2.7 degrees.

 

[AlphaNumeric]

I know what you are saying. Why am I saying lower instead of the same or even higher like your number of 3.1K. Anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's, right.

So you don't have any justification for your number, there's no model which allows you to get a good description of phenomena inline with observation, you literally just made it up.

The difference is that in QWC the surrounding space was already thermalized at some temperature.

So you have some thermodynamical model? Let's see it. What predictive implications do you get from that?

The difference is that in QWC the surrounding space was already thermalized at some temperature. If you burst a hot big bang type event that expands into existing space that already has a background temperature, that hot expanding arena would be continually equalizing its temperature with the background temperature. You won’t get the temperature of the arena as low as the background by the process of equalization until equalization is complete. The arena will always be at a higher temperature than the background as long as there is an expanding arena still in the process of equalization.

So you have some thermodynamical model? Let's see it.

From the QWC perspective that process is still going on and so since we are at 2.7 degrees Kelvin now, the background is speculated to be still lower than 2.7 degrees.

And how in any way can we separate the current model from your work? Why should we put down the FRW quantitative and predictive model of the BB to work with....... your random speculation? Why is it even worth any time considering your random guessing, rather than applying say random guessing on a model we already know is very good?

 

[quantum_wave]

So you don't have any justification for your number, there's no model which allows you to get a good description of phenomena inline with observation, you literally just made it up.

So you have some thermodynamical model? Let's see it. What predictive implications do you get from that?

So you have some thermodynamical model? Let's see it.

And how in any way can we separate the current model from your work? Why should we put down the FRW quantitative and predictive model of the BB to work with....... your random speculation? Why is it even worth any time considering your random guessing, rather than applying say random guessing on a model we already know is very good?

You're right.

I'll just have to go on without you if you are a zealot about your FRW and wave off what ever methodical speculations I discuss about QWC; the cause of the expansion, the preconditions to the big bang, the infinities of QWC, and the very different outcome of the cosmologies.


In my Shape of the Universe Thread I made the statement, “The inertia of mass within any given patch of space is an incomplete picture because the inertia of any object is connected to every other object, sooner or later.”

And one other statement from that thread, “If matter and energy fill all space and space is infinite and has always existed, then matter and energy exist in infinite proportions; there is no shape and so it is boundless in QWC terms.”

I summed it up by saying that in an infinite universe, filled with an infinite amount of matter and energy, where energy cannot be created or destroyed and where entropy is defeated by arenas like our observable universe that expand and intersect and where galaxies converge in the overlap and collapse around new centers of gravity into big crunches, and where big crunches burst into expansion when a limit to energy density is reached, then the result is a shapeless boundless perpetual universe.

Thus in QWC mass is infinite in proportion across infinite space and the inertia of an object with mass is connected to all objects with mass sooner or later.

The “sooner or later” recognizes the following issue:

The question is can an event horizon insulate the mass within the event horizon from the inertial connection of mass beyond the event horizon? In QWC the answer is no. Every arena has a history that begins with its connection to the greater universe. In QWC that concept of an event horizon is demoted to the arena concept. Since there is that connection between a big crunch (which generates a new expanding arena out of the galactic matter from intersecting arenas) and the greater universe outside (i.e. the "parent" arenas), the relationship between what is outside of the arena is never completely broken. So the consensus view of an event horizon of GR which is seen from inside the Big Bang event horizon (because in GR there is no "outside" the expanding universe) fails to translate between GR and QWC because in QWC there is an outside connection and that maintains the inertial connection.

So the FRW expanding universe is only an insignificant arena from the view of QWC. The FRW universe will suffer a different fate than the QWC arena.