Big bang clarification?

[PhysBang]

Space isn't nothing. It's a thing. A gravitational field is a place where space is stressed/pressurized in an inhomogeneous fashion. It's like this gin-clear ghostly elastic "stuff" that isn't stuff, because stuff is made of waves in it. And because it has this pressure to it, it expands. It doesn't expand into anything, it just expands.

This is a nice fantasy. It is too bad that you have absolutely nothing to support this claim. It is too bad that you are simply insulting the many scientists that take the time to work out their numbers in cosmology to see if their theory fits the available data.

It is too bad that you substitute your religious worship in place of reasoning.

Science doesn't say that, but I do.

And that, in a nutshell, is your entire method. You reject what science says in favor of your own authority.

The big bang occurred some 13.8 billion years ago, when space is said to be pointlike or small. IMHO it cannot be infinite, and there's no evidence of any curvature. So setting the expansion aside, if you could travel to a place in space far far away, you might find that there is indeed some kind of edge to space. For example you shine a light and it undergoes total internal reflection. If you jump at it you find yourself coming back the other way. Or maybe you get totally annihilated. But you cannot get beyond the edge of space, because there is no beyond it.

Here Farsight accepts the scientific claim that the universe is about 13.8 billion years old, but he ignores all the theoretical framework that allows one to determine that age. One cannot make that determination for the age without accepting the use of general relativity as contemporary cosmologists use it, the same people that Farsight says are not using general relativity properly. This calculation relies on the presence of a great deal of dark matter, something that Farsight rejects.

Tell us, Farsight, how does one properly determine the age of the universe? How did you come to accept that that number as the proper age of the universe? Did you verify any calculations?

 

[theorist-constant12345]

What?

Space would close in around you, we would perceive living in a box, you have agreed with me stick with it Dy I know you are smart I need you.
Just consider and think about that we ONLY observe matter and never observe the space the matter is in and surrounded by,

Space is shapeless and by the pattern of the expanded matter humanity tries to define a shape to space which is shapeless.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Space would close in around you, we would perceive living in a box

Why do you persist in making shit up?

you have agreed with me

Nope.

Just consider and think about that we ONLY observe matter and never observe the space the matter is in and surrounded by,

What?
You can't see the gaps?

Space is shapeless and by the pattern of the expanded matter humanity tries to define a shape to space

Nope.
What do you mean by "expanded matter"?

 

[theorist-constant12345]

Why do you persist in making shit up?


Nope.


What?
You can't see the gaps?


Nope.
What do you mean by "expanded matter"?

I know why I confuse you now, stick with it I will get you to understand me.

expanded matter, you are picturing this as a singular object growing bigger?

No, I mean it is expanding away from us in a space we can not observe, yes you can see the gaps, but no you do not observe space beyond the expanded matter because all matter in that space is to small by perspective vanishing point to see it.

 

[Dywyddyr]

No, I mean it is expanding away from us in a space

I.e. the universe is expanding.
It's NOT "expanded matter".

we can not observe, yes you can see the gaps, but no you do not observe space

In other words we see the space.

beyond the expanded matter

It's NOT "expanded matter".

because all matter in that space is to small by perspective vanishing point to see it.

You don't know what "vanishing point" means, do you?

 

[theorist-constant12345]

I.e. the universe is expanding.
It's NOT "expanded matter".


In other words we see the space.


It's NOT "expanded matter".


You don't know what "vanishing point" means, do you?

I know what a vanishing point is, it is when an object becomes so small to visual perspective, it vanishes, we can draw a V shape to represent this.

And i.e the VISUAL universe is expanding. Space is ''transparent'' and infinite

Consider visual Dy I am sure you will understand. Consider vanishing points in a volume of space.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

this Dy

 

[Dywyddyr]

I know what a vanishing point is, it is when an object becomes so small to visual perspective, it vanishes

Wrong.
You really are clueless, aren't you?

And your diagram, like all of those that you've inflicted on us, is a piece of meaningless shit.

And i.e the VISUAL universe is expanding.

Uh, yeah.
What's your point here?
Haven't you previously denied that the universe is expanding?
"we do not witness the Universe expanding".
Make your mind up.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

Wrong.
You really are clueless, aren't you?

And your diagram, like all of those that you've inflicted on us, is a piece of meaningless shit.


Uh, yeah.
What's your point here?
Haven't you previously denied that the universe is expanding?
"we do not witness the Universe expanding".
Make your mind up.

You misunderstand, space is the infinite Universe, visual matter in that space is the visible Universe, the visible Universe is expanding into the infinite Universe.

 

[Dywyddyr]

You misunderstand

No, you're talking bollocks AND contradicting yourself.

space is the infinite Universe, visual matter in that space is the visible Universe, the visible Universe is expanding into the infinite Universe.

You yourself stated that the visible universe is expanding.
Do you ANY reason to think that the rest (i.e. the parts outside of visual range) are NOT expanding? Or any explanation of why it wouldn't?
If they are then the universe is expanding.
It's that simple.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

No, you're talking bollocks AND contradicting yourself.


You yourself stated that the visible universe is expanding.
Do you ANY reason to think that the rest (i.e. the parts outside of visual range) are NOT expanding? Or any explanation of why it wouldn't?
If they are then the universe is expanding.
It's that simple.

Yes the parts outside of our visual range will also be in expansion following Newtons laws of motion.
The point I am making is the misconception in my opinion of entangling space and matter into being a ''Universe'',


Space and visual matter are two very different things and should not be defined in entanglement.


A visual Universe represents all matter, space is not visual and should be considered a separate thing to defining Universal clarification.

Matter is observed in space and sight observes through that space by the matter interaction with Em radiation.

We do not observe anything in a space unless an object passes our line of sight such has a bird or comet.

Spacial volume can only be defined by using points of matter in space, visual points that define shape to a shapeless space that is not observed.

In short I think we see right past the furthest away observation point, but the perspective view and vanishing points only allow us to see a blank blackness.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Yes the parts outside of our visual range will also be in expansion following Newtons laws of motion.

So, contrary to your earlier declaration, the universe IS expanding.

The point I am making is the misconception in my opinion of entangling space and matter into being a ''Universe'

That's your opinion.
It's wrong.

A visual Universe represents all matter, space is not visual and should be considered a separate thing to defining Universal clarification.

Wrong again.
You already agreed that we can see the gaps.

In short I think we see right past the furthest away observation point, but the perspective view and vanishing points only allow us to see a blank blackness.

Please go away and LEARN what "perspective" and "vanishing point" really mean.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

So, contrary to your earlier declaration, the universe IS expanding.


That's your opinion.
It's wrong.


Wrong again.
You already agreed that we can see the gaps.


Please go away and LEARN what "perspective" and "vanishing point" really mean.

Yes I agreed you can see the gaps, gaps being empty of matter that reflects and interacts with light.

The gaps are empty, empty does not expand, the distance can expand of an object to an observer, an object travelling away into the empty space .

The object is expanding away from us increasing the distance of space between us and the object, the object is travelling through space and does not expand with space.

I await the clarification of what I am asking, I know very well what perspective view is and vanishing points.

 

[Dywyddyr]

The gaps are empty, empty does not expand

Um, wrong.
Observation shows that you're wrong.

The object is expanding away from us increasing the distance of space between us and the object, the object is travelling through space and does not expand with space.

The object doesn't expand, space does.

I await the clarification of what I am asking

You didn't ask anything, you made a number of incorrect claims.

I know very well what perspective view is and vanishing points.

I don't believe you, given that you persistently misused those terms through this - and other - threads.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

Um, wrong.
Observation shows that you're wrong.


The object doesn't expand, space does.


You didn't ask anything, you made a number of incorrect claims.


I don't believe you, given that you persistently misused those terms through this - and other - threads.

Ok Dy this is what you are saying the equivalent of and science is practically saying.

That when a rocket is sent into space and is expanding away from us that space is expanding with it.
Then when my rocket reaches the furthest away point of matter we can observe, where space is expanded to, that basically we can open the door because we are inside the Truman show but there is really nothing outside of the door because space has not expanded there yet,

Do you not realise how flimpsy that sounds to normal people?

Putting a shape to space by using matter , I see that as dot to dot.

There is no saucepan's in space.

 

[Kittamaru]

Ok Dy this is what you are saying the equivalent of and science is practically saying.

That when a rocket is sent into space and is expanding away from us that space is expanding with it.
Then when my rocket reaches the furthest away point of matter we can observe, where space is expanded to, that basically we can open the door because we are inside the Truman show but there is really nothing outside of the door because space has not expanded there yet,

Do you not realise how flimpsy that sounds to normal people?

Putting a shape to space by using matter , I see that as dot to dot.

There is no saucepan's in space.

Yes, TC, we get it - you don't understand anything about astronomy and astrophysics... you dont' have to keep showing it off. I swear, it almost seems like you are PROUD of how little you actually know about this stuff...

http://www.livescience.com/32260-how-do-scientists-know-the-universe-is-expanding.html

A few years after Albert Einstein had developed his famous (and by now very well tested!) theory of General Relativity (GR) in 1915 he applied it to the entire universe and found something remarkable. The theory predicts that the whole universe is either expanding or contracting . There really isn't any other alternative. To have the universe staying static is like a pencil balanced on its point... possible, but very, very unlikely and not liable to last for very long.

In 1929 the astronomer Edwin Hubble measured the velocities of a large selection of galaxies. He expected that about equal numbers would be moving toward and away from us. After all, the Earth isn't a particularly special place in the universe.

Instead, he discovered that almost all galaxies are moving away from us!

Since the time of Hubble we have observed millions of galaxies with better equipment and verified his results. With the exception of a small handful of galaxies close to us, every galaxy is moving away from us.

And in fact, the farther away a galaxy is the faster it is moving away from us. This fits in very well with Einstein's predictions. The galaxies seem to be receding from us because the entire universe is getting larger. The space in between the galaxies is stretching! And the farther away a galaxy is the more space there is to stretch so the faster the galaxy appears to move away from us.

Over the past half-century astronomers have observed many other facts about the universe that all point to the fact that the universe is expanding. While a very inventive person might be able to explain away one or at most two of these discoveries, the expansion of the universe is the only theory that can explain all of them at once. And with each passing year the evidence piles up higher!

Simply put - observation has proven that the universe is expanding.

 

[Dr_Toad]

After all this, why is this thread not in the cesspool?

 

[Kristoffer]

tc talking about normal people as if he was in that group. Hilarious.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

Yes, TC, we get it - you don't understand anything about astronomy and astrophysics... you dont' have to keep showing it off. I swear, it almost seems like you are PROUD of how little you actually know about this stuff...

http://www.livescience.com/32260-how-do-scientists-know-the-universe-is-expanding.html



Simply put - observation has proven that the universe is expanding.

Please define your use of Universe?

''instead, he discovered that almost all galaxies are moving away from us!

Since the time of Hubble we have observed millions of galaxies with better equipment and verified his results. With the exception of a small handful of galaxies close to us, every galaxy is moving away from us.''

There is no evidence that space is moving away from us, all observation is of matter moving away through space.

 

[Kittamaru]

Please define your use of Universe?

''instead, he discovered that almost all galaxies are moving away from us!

Since the time of Hubble we have observed millions of galaxies with better equipment and verified his results. With the exception of a small handful of galaxies close to us, every galaxy is moving away from us.''

There is no evidence that space is moving away from us, all observation is of matter moving away through space.

u·ni·verse
ˈyo͞onəˌvərs/Submit
noun
all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.
synonyms: cosmos, macrocosm, totality; More
a particular sphere of activity, interest, or experience.
plural noun: universes
"the front parlor was the hub of her universe"
synonyms: world, sphere, domain, preserve, milieu, province
"the universe of computer hardware"
another term for universal set.
noun: universe of discourse; plural noun: universes of discourse

Is that "defined" enough for you?

Indeed - after all, we cannot "see" the edge of the universe. However, if everything in the universe appears to be moving away from a central point of some sort... it stands to reason that whatever it is containing "everything" must be expanding - either that, or stuff that reaches the edge just... what, falls off? Ceases to exist? Is abducted by aliens? What's the alternative?