Bhagavad Gita 9 11

[Bishadi]

this just cracked me up

http://www.iskcon.org/books/bg/bg.php?ch=9

Text 11

avajananti mam mudha
manusim tanum asritam
param bhavam ajananto
mama bhuta-mahesvaram

Synonyms
avajananti--deride; mam--Me; mudhah--foolish men; manusim--in a human form; tanum--a body; asritam--assuming; param--transcendental; bhavam--nature; ajanantah--not knowing; mama--My; bhuta--of everything that be; maha-isvaram--the supreme proprietor.


Translation

Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.

but then to see 12-15 and what i come up with

is beyond weird

 

[Jan Ardena]

this just cracked me up

http://www.iskcon.org/books/bg/bg.php?ch=9



but then to see 12-15 and what i come up with

is beyond weird

Why?

jan.

 

[Bishadi]

Why?

jan.

read for yourself

Text 12

moghasa mogha-karmano
mogha-jnana vicetasah
raksasim asurim caiva
prakrtim mohinim sritah

Synonyms
mogha-asah--baffled in their hopes; mogha-karmanah--baffled in fruitive activities; mogha-jnanah--baffled in knowledge; vicetasah--bewildered; raksasim--demonic; asurim--atheistic; ca--and; eva--certainly; prakrtim--nature; mohinim--bewildering; sritah--taking shelter of.


Translation

Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated.

The religious minds are lost and will be 'defeated'!



Text 13

mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim asritah
bhajanty ananya-manaso
jnatva bhutadim avyayam

Synonyms
maha-atmanah--the great souls; tu--but; mam--unto Me; partha--O son of Prtha; daivim--divine; prakrtim--nature; asritah--having taken shelter of; bhajanti--render service; ananya-manasah--without deviation of the mind; jnatva--knowing; bhuta--of creation; adim--the origin; avyayam--inexhaustible.


Translation

O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible.



then 14 is homage (me suggest, no homage to any man, but to existence in total (the boss).... to be responsible to your every action, then homage is true) .......... My opinion....


Text 15

jnana-yajnena capy an ye
yajanto mam upasate
ekatvena prthaktvena
bahudha visvato-mukham

Synonyms
jnana-yajnena--by cultivation of knowledge; ca--also; api--certainly; anye--others; yajantah--sacrificing; mam--Me; upasate--worship; ekatvena--in oneness; prthaktvena--in duality; bahudha--in diversity; visvatah-mukham--and in the universal form.


Translation


Others, who engage in sacrifice by the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, as diverse in many, and in the universal form.



and if that is not just the best 'truth' any could ever ask for!
(# 15 shares my "screaming" ..... within a coherant message)


to me, that is how to see reality when truth is present; notice "what you can partake in!"


now for that to be "911" to Gita, then noticing the chain coupled with reality just opened my eyes.......... once again


#12 is neat in that the the people are the judges. ( i say the four horseman are the 4 colors of mankind. The unveiling is to them; 3 from each is 12; the 13th is the foot washer)

then what is #13 of the chain above.....

the whole twist of the chain, reality and what is observed is just another within that line of coincidences i bump into all day long!

 

[Oli]

Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated. [/b]

The religious minds are lost and will be 'defeated'!

Which bit of the specifically stated "atheistic views" did you miss.
It doesn't say anything like "religious minds will be defeated" it states quite clearly the opposite.

 

[swarm]

read for yourself

Look just put the "translation."

We don't nee 15 pages of gobble-dee-gook.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Bishadi,

Text 12

Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated. [/b]

The religious minds are lost and will be 'defeated'!

For the benefit of those who do not know in particular where Bish is
quoting from, here is a link. http://www.asitis.com/9/

Religion varies from individual to individual, and to say what you said
shows a real lack of understanding, not only of the passage in question,
but of what religion is.
The term "demonic" in this case means against God, or to be more universal,
against reality. "Atheistic", in this case means ideologies, which at their core,
are purely self-serving, extending to family, offspring, community,
country, and so on.
In the due course of time, all this self-service will be defeated, not least by the onslaught of death.

Text 13


Translation

O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible.

then 14 is homage (me suggest, no homage to any man, but to existence in total (the boss).... to be responsible to your every action, then homage is true) .......... My opinion....

Why quote this magnificent verse, only to draw our attention to
the next one, choosing not to quote?

Text 14

Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.

Your assessment of this verse doesn't appear to have any relevance,
perhaps you could elaborate.

Text 15


Translation

Others, who engage in sacrifice by the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, as diverse in many, and in the universal form.

and if that is not just the best 'truth' any could ever ask for!
(# 15 shares my "screaming" ..... within a coherant message)

I believe your understanding of these texts, is nothing more than
an attempt to justify your own worldview by cherrypicking the bits
that can be moulded.

to me, that is hoow to see reality when truth is present; notice "what you can partake in!"

You mean "..cultivation of knowldegde.."
Does it not say that it is the foolish who do not understand the trancendental
nature of God, and that efforts for cultivation of knowledge devoid of this nature, ultimately comes to nothing?
I'm afraid that the "cultivation of knowledge" stated is not what you
regard as "knowledge", at least not by anything you have expressed to me.

jan.

 

[Bishadi]

Bishadi,


For the benefit of those who do not know in particular where Bish is
quoting from, here is a link. http://www.asitis.com/9/

Religion varies from individual to individual, and to say what you said
shows a real lack of understanding, not only of the passage in question,
but of what religion is.
The term "demonic" in this case means against God, or to be more universal,
against reality.

and any who follow lies beliefs and maintain the ignorance of dogma are the 'anti'... the demonic, the beasts!

t"Atheistic", in this case means ideologies, which at their core,
are purely self-serving, extending to family, offspring, community,
country, and so on.

such is raising a child and whole families under the guise of idiologies (carrying a cross is idol worshipping; teaching the kids Eve committed the first sin and why women are pursecuted is EXACTLY what that is)

In the due course of time, all this self-service will be defeated, not least by the onslaught of death.

kind of cool?

The false preachers will be destroyed and be certain, them of the clergy who have harmed mankind for sooooooooooooooooo long will fare the worst!

Why quote this magnificent verse, only to draw our attention to
the next one, choosing not to quote?

Text 14

Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.

Your assessment of this verse doesn't appear to have any relevance,
perhaps you could elaborate.

"BOWING DOWN BEFORE ME".......................... not gonna happen!

them are mankinds ideals; god don't need homage

you honor existence (God) by being responsible to your every action.

It is why when you lie, you dishonor your mother and father(s); and that is breaking the commands, too.

Knowledge is what progresses; so what you know now is well beyond what your fathers knew. Just as your children will know far more than you (if not YOU FAILED)

what you need to get over, is that the absolute has never existed before and you are now seeing material that has evolved and the problem is not that the knowledge is 'less than'

but that you 'don't wanna' learn!

you are bound to the pretty pictures in your mind (just like any other demonic atheist)

 

[lightgigantic]

Might be worth while to also take a gander at 7.24, 13.13 or the clincher 14.27

... or to cut to the chase, check out the answer to

BG 12.1 Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?

 

[Bishadi]

Might be worth while to also take a gander at 7.24, 13.13 or the clincher 14.27

... or to cut to the chase, check out the answer to

BG 12.1 Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?

those who engage

worshipping is for them who actually believe they are incapable of knowing the truth.................

"we're not worthy".............. (as 2 bow to alice cooper)

 

[lightgigantic]

those who engage

worshipping is for them who actually believe they are incapable of knowing the truth.................

"we're not worthy".............. (as 2 bow to alice cooper)

(insert drum roll ....)

and 12.2 reads

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.

I guess this means you (and possibly alice cooper) have different ideas of perfection than Krishna.

Of course this wouldn't necessarily bug me so much if you didn't try and pass your rendition of the gita as plausible ....

 

[Bishadi]

(insert drum roll ....)

and 12.2 reads

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.

I guess this means you (and possibly alice cooper) have different ideas of perfection than Krishna.

Of course this wouldn't necessarily bug me so much if you didn't try and pass your rendition of the gita as plausible ....

i just posted what i see combined with a bunch of material (rememeber i shared the line of 'coincidences')

for example: read this again

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form (all of existence: as ONE) and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.

IF you consider all of existence (everything) as god, then each of the words mankind 'created' are used to share and increase the knowledge of god.

Words transcend time; that is why knowledge evolves!

TO honor God perfectly, would be to seek understanding HIM and by observing the WORDS from all corners of HIS existence (the knowledge from four colors of mankind).

So i can make sense of it quite easily!

how about you? does the concept really hurt, or does it make absolute sense?

 

[lightgigantic]

i just posted what i see combined with a bunch of material (rememeber i shared the line of 'coincidences')

for example: read this again

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form (all of existence: as ONE) and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.

Given that the gita is making clear distinctions between the personal form and the universal form within the discussion (which in turn krishna explains as having ramifications to how one relates/understands/approaches it), I think you have to explain yourself.

IOW if you say that the personal existence = all of existence and therefore the means and ways of approaching and discussing it are non-different you are introducing an idea separate from the gita.

IF you consider all of existence (everything) as god, then each of the words mankind 'created' are used to share and increase the knowledge of god.

If that was the case, there would be no need for

BG 12.5
For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.

to be made in comparison to

BG12.6
But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Påthä—for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.

Words transcend time; that is why knowledge evolves!

However words exist in relation to an object too

TO honor God perfectly, would be to seek understanding HIM and by observing the WORDS from all corners of HIS existence (the knowledge from four colors of mankind).

to honour god perfectly is too try and understand his words ..... otherwise there would be no essential difference between reading the gita and a telephone directory

So i can make sense of it quite easily!

A person might also be able to derive a sense of narrative from a phone directory too

how about you? does the concept really hurt, or does it make absolute sense?

its not so much that the concept hurts but that it runs contrary to the text you reference

 

[Bishadi]

Given that the gita is making clear distinctions between the personal form and the universal form within the discussion (which in turn krishna explains as having ramifications to how one relates/understands/approaches it), I think you have to explain yourself.

tangible (mass) you can experience as well consciously (the universal; to each also conscious)

that is why 'words' are not so much the items to learn but the meanings to them, that apply universally to all mankind. (ie... the words: Love, light, life, god)

IOW if you say that the personal existence = all of existence and therefore the means and ways of approaching and discussing it are non-different you are introducing an idea separate from the gita.

we are here now, the gita is a collective of works to the time layered by many from many periods as the knowledge (words) evolved; just like the western religions (OT to NT and all the books there of)

personal existence is what we NOW experience; the "total" includes all time, all layers of mankind, knowledge and conscious experiences

BG 12.5
For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.

how long ago was it when 'magnetic fields' were measured? How about gravity?

When was gita written? Was that material including many of the phenomenon we (mankind) now know how to define?

The supreme is all of everything we can even think of experiencing; comprehending HIM is what 'we the people' do with the words mankind creates.

its not so much that the concept hurts but that it runs contrary to the text you reference

you call it contrary but have not issued a case that is apparent.

 

[lightgigantic]

tangible (mass) you can experience as well consciously (the universal; to each also conscious)

that is why 'words' are not so much the items to learn but the meanings to them, that apply universally to all mankind. (ie... the words: Love, light, life, god)

"personal form" and "universal form", however, remain distinct.

we are here now, the gita is a collective of works to the time layered by many from many periods as the knowledge (words) evolved; just like the western religions (OT to NT and all the books there of)

SO its more a case of you believing you have poetic license or something?

personal existence is what we NOW experience; the "total" includes all time, all layers of mankind, knowledge and conscious experiences

The personal experience of the living entity and the personal experience of god remain distinct, however

how long ago was it when 'magnetic fields' were measured? How about gravity?

When was gita written? Was that material including many of the phenomenon we (mankind) now know how to define?

The supreme is all of everything we can even think of experiencing; comprehending HIM is what 'we the people' do with the words mankind creates.

I guess if you are willing to put the knowledge that is presented in the same category as the knowledge that surrounds gravity and magnetic forces, any thing goes .......

:shrug:

you call it contrary but have not issued a case that is apparent.

The case is that you are misrepresenting the teachings of the gita .... once again, I wouldn't have a problem with them if you didn't insist on representing them in the same breath ....