Bashing republican\democrats thread

Source: Washington Post
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45792-2004Sep23.html
Title: "Twisting the Truth"
Date: September 24, 2004

Oh, yes. Parts of the press are finally awake and refusing the steady diet of nothing coming from the Bush administration:

There is one good thing about President Bush's new advertisement showing John Kerry windsurfing: Kerry does enjoy windsurfing.

That alone puts the ad on a higher plane of truthfulness than many of the statements the president regularly makes on the campaign trail. A press corps that relentlessly nitpicked Al Gore in 2000 in search of "little lies" and exaggerations has given Bush wide latitude to make things up. I guess the incumbent benefits from the soft bigotry of low expectations . . . .


Washington Post

The opinion piece is a relief to me, as I've been wondering for a while if anyone else had noticed. Dionne puts Bush's "Hollywood" crack at the top of his "personal hit list"; in addition to that messy distortion, Dionne also notes a more vital twist of reality that I find even more repugnant than the Hollywood line:

"Incredibly," Bush said of his opponent, "he now believes our national security would be stronger with Saddam Hussein in power, not in prison." Then Bush quoted Kerry. "Today he said, and I quote, 'We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure.' He's saying he prefers the stability of a dictatorship to the hope and security of democracy."

Now, to have a Democratic nominee preferring dictatorship to democracy would be big news indeed. But here is a full rendition of the passage from Kerry's speech that Bush partially quoted: "Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not, that was not in and of itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction that we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure."

Read the full Kerry quote again. Does that sound like someone who "prefers the stability of a dictatorship to the hope and security of democracy"? After all, in that same speech Kerry said he "would have tightened the noose and continued to pressure and isolate Saddam Hussein."


Washington Post

On a recent Daily Show appearance, Bill Clinton noted that Democrats win when people think. A sharp line, well-placed, and reflective of an underlying truth about the intellectual demands of liberalism.

While liberalism is the more intellectually-challenging route, the amount of intellect required here is not particularly great. All Dionne is asking anyone to do is to check the detail, to essentially find out what the whole conversation is before flying off the handle about a misunderstanding based on a snippet.

And the GOP? They're inviting us all to fly off the handle. Rational consideration of apparent reality is the last thing the GOP wants, and it appears that these last weeks of the election might not see the incumbent coddled by a press willing to aid and abet prevarication.
______________________

• Dionne, E.J. "Twisting the Truth". Washington Post. September 24, 2003; page A25. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45792-2004Sep23.html
 
Source: Yahoo!
Link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040925/ap_on_el_pr/bush&cid=694&ncid=716
Title: "Bush Twists Kerry's Words on Iraq"
Date: September 25, 2004

Liberal media conspiracy? Hardly. In fact, the AP writer went to lengths to be more than fair to Bush while seemingly picking up the rhythm and tone of Dionne's opinion piece and running with the headline:

President Bush opened several new scathing lines of attack against Democrat John Kerry, charges that twisted his rival's words on Iraq and made Kerry seem supportive of deposed dictator Saddam Hussein.

It was not unlike the spin that Kerry and his forces sometimes place on Bush's words.


Yahoo! (AP)

And the article is not without its matching examples:

(Bush) stated flatly that Kerry had said earlier in the week "he would prefer the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein to the situation in Iraq today." The line drew gasps of surprise from Bush's audience in a Racine, Wis., park. "I just strongly disagree," the president said.

But Kerry never said that. In a speech at New York University on Monday, he called Saddam "a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell." He added, "The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure."


Yahoo! (AP)

So it seems that the folks in the press calling out the administration on its unprecedented degree of bullsh@t are not merely on the opinion pages. But before the Nitwit Division over at the GOP starts howling about media bias, let me reiterate that the article is critical of Kerry, as well. In addition to claiming that Bush spin "was not unlike" Kerry spin, the article shows how Kerry is exactly like Bush to exactly the same degree:

That's not to say Kerry hasn't been playing fast and loose with Bush's words.

Just Friday, the Kerry campaign sent an e-mail to supporters entitled "He said what?" citing Bush's remark that he had seen "a poll that said the right track/wrong track in Iraq was better than here in America."

The e-mail from campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill accused the president of having "no plan to get us out of Iraq" and thinking "the future of Iraq is brighter than the future of America."

Bush has a plan for Iraq — Kerry just disagrees that it is working. And the president wasn't comparing Iraq's future to that of the United States, only accurately reflecting one recent survey in Iraq and the latest trends in America that asked participants for their assessment of the direction their countries are going.


Yahoo! (AP)

See? There's no reason to go complaining about a liberal media. The AP sees little difference 'twixt the old standard ("make yourself look better and your opponent look worse than either of you really are") and the new ("invent things to claim your opponent said in order to get easy applause").

It's just like an argument in the 527 debate: The press accepted the assertion and reported that criticizing the budget, the deficit, or the many vital mistakes the Bush administration has made (e.g. MoveOn) is as morally reprehensible as inventing a story out of thin air and staking the reputation of the entire past, present, and future United States Armed Services on what is definitively a lie (e.g. SBVT). We even had a couple days in which the candidates sought to argue about how to make the groups shut up, despite the fact that the 527 "loophole" exists because it must. The argument went, "Yes, this Swift ad is bad, just as bad as MoveOn, and is further proof that the 527's need to be shut up." No. Criticizing policy and misinformation is not "just as bad" as flat-out lying and insulting the entire U.S. military in order to do it.

And in the article at hand, I must disagree: to say that Bush has no plan is arguable, or at least not insupportable. To say that Kerry said something he didn't say in hopes that the people at home are too freaking stupid and lazy to know the difference is not arguable in the least, and is insupportable.

A number of questions present themselves:

• Does anyone--in this case either the AP or the GOP--really believe that making a sharp observation of a political maneuver, that criticizing policy, is the same thing as outright lying? "Politics" as it is played in any manner resembling "dignified", is much like sales: tell people the things about the product you think they want, downplay the things they don't want. However, the way it's being played is rather like the guys at Nike saying, "If you wear our shoes you can fly; if you wear Adidas, terrorists will bomb your house." So does anyone actually believe that the two versions of "politics" are the same?
• Does the GOP really think the people are stupid?
• Is the AP really that stupid, or does the AP think the American people are paying close enough attention to tell the difference?
It's encouraging to see the news writers finally actually describing what is taking place inasmuch as Bush no longer gets the easy ride he's had, but what is this reduction of behavior to preset and stratified roles? Republicans lie, Democrats fumble around trying to find a way to be both honest and appealing at the same time, and the people ... what? Take comfort in the illusion of confidence? Disdain the appearance of careful consideration?

It would be encouraging to think that the comparison--how Kerry has been playing fast and loose with Bush's words--is tongue-in-cheek, but among the charges against liberalism is a smoldering contempt alleged of liberals toward the common folk they intend to protect, advance, &c, and one or the other has to give: either there is no liberal media conspiracy or else the liberal media so trusts the American public as to crack jokes at a time like this.

In the meantime, the Bush camp has gotten so clumsy and obvious that a reporter covering the campaigns might be remiss to not at least mention the situation. Yet in the classic politically-correct style so often charged (by conservatives) of the media, some token words have been thrown at the Kerry campaign just to reassure insecure Republicans that no, the press is not out to eat their children.

I mean, I could point out that the President has said the administration is working hard to find new ways to hurt the American people--(a confession?)--but we all know what he meant. A classic Bushism to be sure, and one I'll chuckle over with my daughter in a few years. But one would have to be an absolute idiot to try and sell the idea that Bush actually admitted what we all know to be true. Seriously, he's pulled it off far enough to make the office in the first place, it's more likely that he just wasn't paying attention to what he was saying.

And if the Kerry campaign came out swinging tomorrow with a four-point blaster--

(1) Bush "service" in Nat'l Guard
(2) Bush false war pretenses
(3) Bushism about hurting the American people
(4) Tagline: "Why does George Bush hate America?"
--they would still have a greater claim to accuracy and therefore legitimacy than the Bush campaign. Certes, it would upset some people; after all, there is a point at which it is undignified to be honest with Americans. We tell children there's a heaven; we tell adults what they want to hear about instead of what they need to hear about.

What is going on in the separate campaigns is not the same thing. But you know, that damned liberal media bias can't manage to criticize a Republican without blowing an issue out of proportion in order to criticize Democrats at the same time.

Why does George Bush want to eat your children?
____________________

• Loven, Jennifer. "Bush Twists Kerry's Words on Iraq". Associated Press / Yahoo!. September 25, 2004. See Yahoo! (AP)
 
Last edited:
Revisiting the Record
Flipping, flopping, or evolving? Bush sends mixed signals

The idea of a flip implies two sides. The idea of a flop seems rather reckless and dead-weight. In the world of politics, pragmatism and ideological evolution are described by conservatives as "waffling" or "flip-flopping". Politics, however, is much like art insofar as the politician attempts to depict a specific perspective; both are also multivalent.

For the other side of the flip-flop issue itself is that the Bush administration, while charging all manner of uncertainty about its Democratic challenger, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, is that Bush himself changes his positions; evolution or flip-flop?

Mark Sandalow writes for the San Francisco Chronicle:

"Mixed signals are the wrong signals," Bush said last week during a campaign stop in Bangor, Maine. "I will continue to lead with clarity, and when I say something, I'll mean what I say."

Yet, heading into the first presidential debate Thursday, which will focus on foreign affairs, there is much in the public record to suggest that Bush's words on Iraq have evolved -- or, in the parlance his campaign often uses to describe Kerry, flip-flopped.

An examination of more than 150 of Bush's speeches, radio addresses and responses to reporters' questions reveal a steady progression of language, mostly to reflect changing circumstances such as the failure to discover weapons of mass destruction, the lack of ties between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network and the growing violence of Iraqi insurgents.


San Francisco Chronicle

Sandalow goes on to charge that,

A careful reading of Bush's statements on Iraq reveals many instances of consistency, just as The Chronicle's examination of Kerry's words found consistency in the Democratic challenger's statements. Over and over, Bush stated that the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001, changed the way Americans -- including the commander in chief -- viewed the threat of terrorism and lowered the threshold of risk Americans were willing to accept.

San Francisco Chronicle

A close examination of the issue is alleged to show Bush squirming on the hook: last week Senator Kerry charged Bush with offering 23 different rationales for the Iraq War, and while I don't know how that stands up to Poppy Bush's daily rotation during the first Gulf War, I should note that Kerry, even according to Sandalow, is incorrect:

The count comes from a study conducted by an honors thesis written by a University of Illinois student, which actually attributed 19 rationales -- none mutually exclusive -- to Bush and four others to members of his administration.

Most of the rationales were on the table from the beginning. What changed was the emphasis.


San Francisco Chronicle

And this sort of thing would be less problematic for Bush if he had not said such things as he did, that our mission was clear--disarmament--and that meant regime change, and our mission would not change. And now the war is depicted as having been about manufacturing capabilities and the installation of democracy.

While the last--installation of democracy--is debatable insofar as history shows the idea of democracy in Iraq novel to our U.S. government, it would appear that Bush's description of the mission has indeed changed, and we are expected to believe it was always that way.

Sandalow is focused on Bush and Iraq, and whether it is editorial necessity (e.g. column space) or the writer's choice, more classic flip-flops (e.g. nation-building) are passed over in favor of more immediate and glaring shifts in Bush's rhetoric:

The president also said last month on NBC's "Today Show" that "I don't think you can win" the war on terrorism, explaining instead that the nation could greatly minimize the likelihood of terrorist attacks. The comment came after months of asserting the United States was winning, and would ultimately triumph, in its war on terror. The statement appeared to be little more than an inelegant way of adding nuance to his explanation, and the president quickly retreated from the words the following day.

San Francisco Chronicle

Comment:

Think of what the flip-flop issue seems to beg of people: pragmatism, evolution, and growth are vilified. How many of us have flip-flopped in our lives because of a new understanding of vital issues? I actually had to point out to a friend that she was treating her lesbian mother--in argumentative theory--like ethnic minorities and also women have been treated: Why can't they be happy with what they have? Why do they need to be "so equal"?

By the time we got down to quality of life, she seemed to get it, but grudgingly. So if she comes around to advocate equal protection under the law for all citizens of the United States, one thing I won't do is complain about her "flip-flop".

What Bush wants us to believe is that the man who thinks he has nothing left to learn is somehow smarter than the man who knows he can't know everything no matter how hard he tries.
____________________

• Sandalow, Marc. "Record shows Bush shifting on Iraq war: President's rationale for the invasion continues to evolve". San Francisco Chronicle, September 29, 2004; page A-1. See http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/29/MNGE590O711.DTL

See Also -

• Sandalow, Marc. "Flip-flopping charge unsupported by facts: Kerry always pushed global cooperation, war as last resort." San Francsico Chronicle, September 23, 2004; page A-1. See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/09/23/MNGQK8TI8O1.DTL
 
Your erectile, philosopically auto-stimulated callouses are showing.

Par for the course Mr. G . . . a long and well thought out post was put up, and your retort is sophomoric personal insult.
 
I cut to the chase because life is too short to willingly wade through bullshit.

Someday you'll tire of BS, too.
 
You're the biggest f*ckwit I've read online Mr. G

No sense of responsibility, security, and you stick up for lies and deceipt and corruption.

Pathetic, really !!!

He's not even worth arguing with people, a perfect example of arrogant America!!
 
Well, the frightening thing is that I think don't doubt he genuinely believes his viewpoint is whats best for America. And genuinely mistakes beings an A-Hole with ''strength''. Fortunately they are the minority in America, but they are motivated, ruthless and self-rightous. They believe the end justify's the means and therefore even cheating and lying to accomplish their goals is justified in their eyes - because they honestly believe their goals are so much better for all of us.

These guys, Mr. G and the folks like him in office, are not ''conservatives'' - they are *radicals*. Even moderate thinkers now are branded as socialist leaning ''liberals'' by these guys propaganda machines.

We need to continue to organize, and think ahead, and act. We need put things in line for a long and positive future by *joining* the world rather than demanding to have our obese asses be alone in the rulers throne.

I wouldn't point the finger at Mr. G and say he is being conciously evil, folks like him (mostly) honestly think their worldview and goals really would be the best for all of us, unfortunately they are wrong.
 
I took this link from an ad banner on this page: http://pagead2.googlesyndication.co...4cjN2cDA&num=1&client=ca-pub-1153167048728792

The question is, Doesn't that look kind of like a container of freedom fries?

(And, on reflection, that is flat-out the craziest url I've ever seen.)
_____________________

A note on the link: Every once in a while, if some ad link at Sciforums intrigues me enough to make a note like this one, I try to use the url from the advertisement because I'm under the impression that Sciforums receives some sort of benefit from these ads. If I am mistaken, such is life; however, if I can compel people to cause this site a benefit by clicking the link instead of sucking up its bandwidth by posting the image, please forgive me if I choose to do it this way.
 
That whole freedom fries thing was so amazingly moronic! They damn things are not from France anyways. And if we want to get rid of all things French . . . should we send the Statue of Liberty back?

Statue of Liberty: History
 
Marsoups,
You're the biggest f*ckwit I've read online Mr. G
Not from where I'm standing. :D
No sense of responsibility, security, and you stick up for lies and deceipt and corruption.

Pathetic, really !!!
What's in an opinion?
He's not even worth arguing with people,...
Your own failure to make your herd demonstrably less smelly than than myself.
...a perfect example of arrogant America!!
I'm not seeing a problem.

And I should find your pedigree compelling exactly why?
 
Gravity,
Well, the frightening thing is that I think don't doubt he genuinely believes his viewpoint is whats best for America.
Fear seems to be your herd's principle motivator. As for 'genuine belief', I prefer to define my viewpoint as: What is best for me, and mine. In that, I'm sure I'm just like you, only different.
And genuinely mistakes beings an A-Hole with ''strength''.
You should be glad that your sphincter muscles aren't as weak as your argument. They're saving you from even more public humiliation.
Fortunately they are the minority in America,...
Am I? Are "we"? Only around here. Must be your herd is largely ignorable, except for the occasional sport.
...but they are motivated,...
You noticed.
...ruthless...
I wonder where Ruth is?
...and self-rightous.
I feel good about myself. How about you? Feeling the need to be accepted in order to subsidize a personal deficit of some sort?
They believe the end justify's the means and therefore even cheating and lying to accomplish their goals is justified in their eyes - because they honestly believe their goals are so much better for all of us.
Now I'm They?

Hey, I could be a God!
These guys, Mr. G and the folks like him in office, are not ''conservatives'' - they are *radicals*. Even moderate thinkers now are branded as socialist leaning ''liberals'' by these guys propaganda machines.
Um, I'm a registered Independent. Surprise! I'm in the middle.

But you don't know the "middle"

Your idea of "moderate" is not mine.

You can't define me; you can't compell me to be like you. I'm not anything like you. I don't have to be like you. I have more choices than you can offer.
We need to continue to organize, and think ahead, and act. We need put things in line for a long and positive future by *joining* the world rather than demanding to have our obese asses be alone in the rulers throne.
Ah, you were weaned way too early.

Not my fault, not my problem.
I wouldn't point the finger at Mr. G and say he is being conciously evil, folks like him (mostly) honestly think their worldview and goals really would be the best for all of us, unfortunately they are wrong.
You presume more than your capabilities allow.
 
True . . . but he/we should find your pedigree compelling excatly why?
Originality is not your thing, eh?

Herding is a tough thing to shake.

Now you're regurgitating me. What's up with that failure to express intellectual property?
 
My, my - I raised many seperate issues about the specific behaviors/motivations of NeoCons in America (call yourself "independant" if you like, you are behaving simply as an apologist for the NeoCons). And instead of broaching a SINGLE one of those subjects, you only can stoop to sophomoric personal attacks. And sorry, I'm not insecure enough for any of those drunken swings to land and even bruise me.

Now anyways, mixing some personal attack in with attacking the ideas themselves? Hell, that would be fine - we all do it some, and it can be cathartic - but you ONLY use personal attack. Sad. But, ok - thats cool stud. Conversation often gets steered to the lowest common denominator - and you are *it*! :)

So here we go, down to your level:

Were you sold into slavery to some weird religious cult and continually gang-raped or something as a child? Because you seem extremely angry at the world!

Now, I voice my concerns with passion because I fear for the future of my children. You seem to simply be flat at furious at anybody who doesn't worship you!

And I'll join you in some of your childish ego-motivated spew here. Intellectually, you are outclassed here stud. Everybody else will see it, even if you do not. So sulk in the fumes of your arrogant mental masturbation all you want, I'm smiling and chuckling as I type this . . . but I just know you are gritting your teeth. :cool:
 
Last edited:
Graviteehee,
...(call yourself "independant" if you like,...)
Call yourself intelligent, and special -- if you like. ;)
...you only can stoop to sophomoric personal attacks.
Um,these aren't your own words?
...you are behaving simply as an apologist for the NeoCons...
...you only can stoop to sophomoric personal attacks...
...those drunken swings...
...Sad. But, ok - thats cool stud. Conversation often gets steered to the lowest common denominator - and you are *it*!
...down to your level...
You seem to simply be flat at furious at anybody who doesn't worship you!
...your childish ego-motivated spew...
Intellectually, you are outclassed here stud.
Everybody else will see it, even if you do not.
So sulk in the fumes of your arrogant mental masturbation all you want,
...I'm smiling and chuckling as I type this...
...but I just know you are gritting your teeth.
Your acute sense of triumphalism is of a rather pedestrian quality, according to your own defintion.

For your invested diatribe to be true, you have to assume that this community is the majority share of the observable Universe.

Even you can't logically defend that fallacy.
 
*Yawn* - you just don't see it. Yes, I DID stoop to your language and lack of actual substance, while calling attention to the fact that I was doing so. Additionally - I many times raised specific issues, but you NEVER actually take on an external issue if its a tough one (from me or anyone) - you only resort to personal attacks. So now I join you with glee, laughing and enjoying myself. Knowing that your ego is so involved that you are seriously on the defensive and angry! This gives me great pleasure!

A legend in your own mind aren't you stud? I pity the people who are actually in your life (and suspect they pity themselves for it as well!) You sound as redundant as Prez Shrub (hint: you obviously think using ''pedestrian'' elevates you in some way? Heh heh!)

Good luck stud!
 
Last edited:
This is where I'm supposed to kill myself due to community drone superiority?

I'm not one of your auto-stimulating inflatables.

Sorry.

You're on your own.

Not my fault. Not my problem.
 
Back
Top