Baryonic Number Conservation

The God

Valued Senior Member
Einstein's conversion E = mc^2,
Does it imply that any mass can be converted into Energy ?

If so will the Baryon Number remain conserved ?

In the recent GW detection case huge mass equal to 3 Solar Mass got converted into Gravitational Wave Energy....How the Baryon Number remained conserved here ?
 
Einstein's conversion E = mc^2,
Does it imply that any mass can be converted into Energy ?

If so will the Baryon Number remain conserved ?

In the recent GW detection case huge mass equal to 3 Solar Mass got converted into Gravitational Wave Energy....How the Baryon Number remained conserved here ?
I don't really know.....
Why don't you ask the experts at aLIGO? Isn't that the obvious direction to take?
 
What is the relevance of your links ?
It is far more demadning for you to state what is the relevance once you admit that you really do not know about the point...Take your time, google, get an idea about the subject, and then start your usual copy paste..
 
Einstein's conversion E = mc^2,
Does it imply that any mass can be converted into Energy ?

If so will the Baryon Number remain conserved ?

In the recent GW detection case huge mass equal to 3 Solar Mass got converted into Gravitational Wave Energy....How the Baryon Number remained conserved here ?
This is the sort of thing you mean?: http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0604072v1
And guessing that in your opinion conservation of baryon number takes precedence therefore placing a big question mark over viability of notion of BH?
Was the title a typo i.e. should have been: Baryon Number Conservation?
 
What is the relevance of your links ?
It is far more demadning for you to state what is the relevance once you admit that you really do not know about the point...Take your time, google, get an idea about the subject, and then start your usual copy paste..
It appears you just do not want an answer.
Par for the course. :rolleyes:



ps: The confirmation of GW's and BH's remain as firm as ever the last time I checked.
I don't believe this little fabrication will alter anything. :D
 
This is the sort of thing you mean?: http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0604072v1
And guessing that in your opinion conservation of baryon number takes precedence therefore placing a big question mark over viability of notion of BH?
Was the title a typo i.e. should have been: Baryon Number Conservation?

I saw that paper. It hints at violation.

You have not responded on the first part.

And I change BH-BH spiralling to NS-NS spiralling and ensuing GW. So will in this case Baryon numbers be conserved ?

PS: I am trying to reconcile to something which may appear absurd : Should the conversion of mass into energy end all the conservation related violation aspects closed. Say during merging/spiralling mass got converted into energy, should we bother about B/L/charge conservation ? Like M to E, we should have Q to E as well...and that should (M/Q to E conversion) should end/erase all the information contained......
 
No. The equation is only giving the equivalence between mass and energy.

So, the equation does not imply conversion of any mass into energy. Then what does equivalence mean ? Should we not put a condition/rider on this equation....In general this equation is known as mass energy conversion equation...and if there is no conversion of any mass then whats the significance ? What category of 'm' it is for ?
 
It appears you just do not want an answer.
Par for the course. :rolleyes:



ps: The confirmation of GW's and BH's remain as firm as ever the last time I checked.
I don't believe this little fabrication will alter anything. :D

Please tell me which of your link answers the question...just extract the para and paste it here pl.

Why do you have to repeat this confirmation of GW and BH like a bloody worn out vintage audio tape ? It is cacophony now. You have hit a century with this, on multiple threads...
 
So, the equation does not imply conversion of any mass into energy.
Correct, the equation only tells you the relationship between mass and energy. The equation is useful for calculating the amount of energy that is produced for a mass loss in nuclear reactions though.
Then what does equivalence mean ?
Definition of equivalence.
Should we not put a condition/rider on this equation....
What sort of conditions would that be? The equation seems pretty clear to me.
In general this equation is known as mass energy conversion equation...and if there is no conversion of any mass then whats the significance ?
Not really. In general the equation E=mc^2 is called the Mass-Energy Equivalency Equation. Clearly, it can be used to determine the amount of energy that can be obtained if a mass is converted to energy. If I have an apple in my hand the equation can tell me how much equivalent energy is in that mass - it does not imply that I can somehow convert that apple to pure energy!
What category of 'm' it is for ?
I was not aware that there are categories of mass, what do you mean by 'categories'?
 
...You have not responded on the first part.
Because I thought it trivial. What you are mainly asking about re violations is a quite deep area of SM and beyond SM particle physics - mixed in with extreme gravitation.
And I change BH-BH spiralling to NS-NS spiralling and ensuing GW. So will in this case Baryon numbers be conserved ?
Merger of 2 NS's is assumed to always end with gravitational collapse into a notional BH. So you're no better off using that example than just a notional BH-BH merger scenario. Except perhaps that in NS-NS case we need not speculate on the 'initial' state (can of worms!) of any infalling matter contained within merging BH's.
Look, I'll just put the current GR community picture and let you think on it. Initially we had normal stars with lots and lots of baryons within. Huge net baryon number. Next, there is collapse to either NS or BH state. Followed by inspiral and merger of such a pair. Followed by, it's theorized, eventual Hawking evaporation.

The last two processes are for sure baryon number violating. Especially the last - since the vast majority of radiated energy would be in the form of long wavelength photons, which of course have zero baryon number. The mass-energy given off in merger event GW's is also clearly non-baryonic.
PS: I am trying to reconcile to something which may appear absurd : Should the conversion of mass into energy end all the conservation related violation aspects closed.
Whata whata? Say that again - clearly.
Say during merging/spiralling mass got converted into energy, should we bother about B/L/charge conservation ? Like M to E, we should have Q to E as well...and that should (M/Q to E conversion) should end/erase all the information contained......
Goes back to my initial comment here. You cannot mix and match like that. Disparate conservation laws are just that - disparate. Prevailing GR lore has it that net charge, sans any netralizing from exterior inflows, is strictly conserved during gravitational collapse or merger. I think that charge invariance (not conservation of charge which is a different animal) is very suspect as easily demonstrated with a simple thought experiment - but I don't with to go there this thread.
 
Please tell me which of your link answers the question...just extract the para and paste it here pl.
You are able to do that yourself as distasteful as that answer may appear to be to your agenda.
Why do you have to repeat this confirmation of GW and BH like a bloody worn out vintage audio tape ? It is cacophony now. You have hit a century with this, on multiple threads...

:D Because it is probably the greatest discovery so far this century and further confirms GR to an even higher degree of precision and reality: And of course because we have idiots that believe differently despite the overwhelming evidence.
 
Because I thought it trivial. What you are mainly asking about re violations is a quite deep area of SM and beyond SM particle physics - mixed in with extreme gravitation.

Merger of 2 NS's is assumed to always end with gravitational collapse into a notional BH. So you're no better off using that example than just a notional BH-BH merger scenario. Except perhaps that in NS-NS case we need not speculate on the 'initial' state (can of worms!) of any infalling matter contained within merging BH's.
Look, I'll just put the current GR community picture and let you think on it. Initially we had normal stars with lots and lots of baryons within. Huge net baryon number. Next, there is collapse to either NS or BH state. Followed by inspiral and merger of such a pair. Followed by, it's theorized, eventual Hawking evaporation.

The last two processes are for sure baryon number violating. Especially the last - since the vast majority of radiated energy would be in the form of long wavelength photons, which of course have zero baryon number. The mass-energy given off in merger event GW's is also clearly non-baryonic.

Whata whata? Say that again - clearly.

Goes back to my initial comment here. You cannot mix and match like that. Disparate conservation laws are just that - disparate. Prevailing GR lore has it that net charge, sans any netralizing from exterior inflows, is strictly conserved during gravitational collapse or merger. I think that charge invariance (not conservation of charge which is a different animal) is very suspect as easily demonstrated with a simple thought experiment - but I don't with to go there this thread.

This question was prompted by Hansda's persistence on the issue of 3 solar mass loss in the recent BH-BH merger.

The question is very simple:

1. Fission has Baryon Number conservation.
2. Fusion too.

These are two known processes around E = mc^2, the third is this Gravitational Wave....It is not necessary that GW is only from BH-BH kind combination, even Earth-Sun system has Gravitational Radiation loss (however small), so will there be B number conservation for say non BH type GW...(why Non BH ? Simply because with BH around, the physics become somewhat convenient).
 
You are able to do that yourself as distasteful as that answer may appear to be to your agenda.


:D Because it is probably the greatest discovery so far this century and further confirms GR to an even higher degree of precision and reality: And of course because we have idiots that believe differently despite the overwhelming evidence.

No, it is not distasteful...You asked a poster whether he has confidence in you or not, you put yourslef at altar.

idiots ? Who ? In my opinion an idiot is a person who lacks critical thinking. And critical thinking lets one analyse what is proposed. a person who accepts everything coming on his way can also be termed as a naive person (or an idiot).

See how nicely and loudly schneibster has killed your beloved BB and 10^-43 seconds....and you embraced him, rather you surrendered to him. This is called naivety, lack of critical reasoning, idiocy. Atleast you should have asked him tough questions, like Origin is doing.
 
No, it is not distasteful...You asked a poster whether he has confidence in you or not, you put yourslef at altar.
Actually any scientific answer is distasteful as far as you are concerned.
And I did not ask any poster if he has confidence in me....more of your porky pies to hide your rather obvious inadequacies. :)
Particularly that confirming BH's and further precision for GR. :)
idiots ? Who ? In my opinion an idiot is a person who lacks critical thinking. And critical thinking lets one analyse what is proposed. a person who accepts everything coming on his way can also be termed as a naive person (or an idiot).

Or that stands there from a position of ignorance, and continually asserts that mainstream cosmology has it all wrong, and that experiments like GP-B and aLIGO are fraudulent. :rolleyes:
See how nicely and loudly schneibster has killed your beloved BB and 10^-43 seconds....and you embraced him, rather you surrendered to him. This is called naivety, lack of critical reasoning, idiocy. Atleast you should have asked him tough questions, like Origin is doing.
:D
Perhaps your delusions are worse then normal. [I'm sure they are!] He has not "killed off" any BB and/or any 10-43 seconds post BB.
origin certainly asked some good questions and received the proper answers.
Still scraping the bottom of the barrel and resorting to fairy tales is your thing. :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps your delusions are worse then normal. [I'm sure they are!] He has not "killed off" any BB and/or any 10-43 seconds post BB.
origin certainly asked some good questions and received the proper answers.
Still scraping the bottom of the barrel and resorting to fairy tales is your thing. :rolleyes:

..so what have you decided, who came first chicken or egg, I mean BB or inflation ?
 
- it does not imply that I can somehow convert that apple to pure energy!

apple = mass

3 solar mass got converted into energy in this BH BH merger, that implies that mass can be converted into energy through gravity ?
 
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