Bah Bah Black Sheep

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What is Indian cultural identity? Does the fact that Olaf van Cleef [of Cartiers] paints Indian deities and uses the Taj Hotel as his second address mean that he is now Indian? Does the fact that we can also watch the Vagina Monologues in Hindi mean that Indian women can also relate to those stories? What is Indian culture?

partially yes it does relate to Indian culture so I would say you still are retaining the Indian identity.

My issue here is that a large percentage of people who have immigrated to other countries do not wish to integrate themselves or others into their culture.

The recent French riots amongst the young Muslim workers is a result of this.
 
What do you think we need borders for?

Please, do not counter my question with a question. See..that's not how it works, S.A.M. First you'll answer why we don't need borders, and how exactly you imagine this to work out. Once you've laid out what exactly you mean by "a world without borders", I'll be looking into it from a more serious aspect, but until then, I can't be sure what you mean by it, and therefore will not get into it any further.
 
And how exactly would this work - a world without borders..? Sounds to me like an other ideology à la communism. More unrealistic sissy bullshit.

A world without borders would require:

Equal rights for all citizens of every country, including
Equal access to education.
Equal access to health provision.
Freedom of religion.

It isn't unrealistic, and it has worked better based on capitalism rather than communism. Russia fell apart. The EC is expanding.
 
partially yes it does relate to Indian culture so I would say you still are retaining the Indian identity.

My issue here is that a large percentage of people who have immigrated to other countries do not wish to integrate themselves or others into their culture.

The recent French riots amongst the young Muslim workers is a result of this.

I don't particularly see a problem with not wanting to be like everyone else, but I come from a country with hundreds of languages and mini cultures dating back to the first immigrants so I guess my perspective is different. I think its fun to live in a community where people have so many religions, festivals, languages, style of clothing, way of thinking.

As long as people are willing to respect the choices of others [and refrain from violence and abuse], I think living in a borderless world would create more equality. Nation states seem to be just one more form of discrimination that is used to exploit and oppress.
 
Borderlessness isn't so dangerous as our handlers would like us to believe; nor so boring, nor evitable. The visible borders I've seen are ugly anachronisms. I'm glad to see most becoming imaginary, and strange memories.
 
As long as people are willing to respect the choices of others [and refrain from violence and abuse], I think living in a borderless world would create more equality.

Were the first part the case, you'd already have perfect equality and zero borders.

Unfortunately it's not, and never will be.
 
Were the first part the case, you'd already have perfect equality and zero borders.

Unfortunately it's not, and never will be.

Isn't it the other way around? Haven't we always been at war for borders we don't really care about for power brokers that gain from them? Does it particularly matter to you where one border ends and another begins?
 
Isn't it the other way around?

? It was your sentence.

Haven't we always been at war for borders we don't really care about for power brokers that gain from them?

Doesn't sound like history to me, no. People - not just rulers - tend to care quite a bit about where the borders are, and often stand to gain from them being situated in certain places. A power broker, by definition, is in the business of delivering power (and so, "gain") to others, after all.

Does it particularly matter to you where one border ends and another begins?

I think you mean to say "country" and not "border" there. But, yeah, as a practical matter it has a big impact on my life. I happen to live quite close to an international border, and things are very different on the other side of it. It would make a very salient difference in my life if that border were to move by, say, 50 miles (in either direction).
 
So, Captain Kremmen is talking about some socialistic ideology, while S.A.M., who interestingly never answered my question directly, no, rather preferred to counter it with a question, is talking about removing country borders.

Both ideas...are completely decadent, as both completely ignore human nature. And since neither of the two were capable of properly explaining how that would work out I'll stick with what I said initially - more unrealistic sissy bullshit.
 
Human nature amazingly enough is not static. We are quite capable of moving beyond our animal instincts and using our imagination and our intelligence.

?
I think you mean to say "country" and not "border" there. But, yeah, as a practical matter it has a big impact on my life. I happen to live quite close to an international border, and things are very different on the other side of it. It would make a very salient difference in my life if that border were to move by, say, 50 miles (in either direction).

Does it bother you, this difference? Or do you feel it is normal?
 
more unrealistic sissy bullshit.

And that is where you wise O-great Anoby shall tell us of your proposal of dealing with this issue raised in this thread, the so called nationalism movement: its causes and its results. What have you to offer to the table? Speak or I shall eat your tongue if you kindly allow so.
 
Whats national identity? You're an American. Are you Cherokee? Pequot? Mohican?
 
And that is where you wise O-great Anoby shall tell us of your proposal of dealing with this issue raised in this thread, the so called nationalism movement: its causes and its results. What have you to offer to the table? Speak or I shall eat your tongue if you kindly allow so.

I didn't whine about the nationalism movement. I have no problem with nationalism. There always will be a weaker nation that will be exploited. It's impossible that we'll ever reach equality to such a point where no discrimination would ever occur again. Why? People are, well, people. And no, S.A.M., as a whole, people can't ignore their instincts. This isn't an issue about intellect, and imagination. The issue is something we can't change with just a clap on our shoulder. Inequality already starts at birth. Some are born weaker, and some stronger. Some are born smart, and some are not so bright. And that's where the whole problem already starts. That's why Captain Kremmen's socialistic policy wouldn't work out. Yours, on the other hand, is maybe possible, but I fear that we'd end up in yet an other Medieval Ages as the whole system on which people relied for centuries would eventually collapse if the country borders would suddenly stop existing, -- wait, bullshit, it would become yet again an other decadent idea just like Kremmen's. See, till today people are fighting over land. It starts in a little village where two neighbours start to argue whom those 2 cm between the two private properties belongs to. No, this has nothing to do with intelligence, or imagination. It's solely about the ego...the egoism. Egoism is part of human nature, it's an instinct, and that instinct is not something people can just brush off of their shoulders just like that. It's there, and will stay there.

Then there's that. People love to argue. Arguments in families, between friends, etc. are very common. And that's where it already starts. No two people are the same. Even if they share the same skin colour, same hair colour, physical stature, sex, etc. And even then, they argue with each others. Either way, most people have the tendency to stick to their own fellows, to stick together with those with whom they have the most in common, and that's why, for example, in a Multiculti city you'll notice that people of the same culture are prone to stick together instead of mixing together with the others. Yes, to some point they will mix together with others, but that requires a good portion of time, but even then, on a larger scale they'll still prefer to stick together with the fellows of the same culture as them. And yes, I'm aware that there are exceptions..., but they're just exceptions, a minority.

Both ideas would only work out if people would be equal to such a level where they'd share the same intellect, thoughts, physiology, emotions, etc.
So basically, yet an other utopian ideology which would only work under perfect conditions. Sorry to break it to you, but the conditions aren't ideal, and never will be. Dream on.
 
Thank God people don't all think like you. We'd still be living in caves.
 
Actually, thank God, not all people think like you.

See, that's not how this world works. That's not how humanity works, and that's why communism, and socialism can't be applied to any societies. There is no such thing such as equal status. A simple concept: dumb = intelligent <---- bullshit. Little things like that make it impossible for everyone to be on equal footing.
Do you know what happens to people who live under a communistic regime? No, I'm not speaking of the treatment of those who are against this baby-ideology, I am speaking about what happens to people in general on intellectual grounds. It destroys their will to improve their lives. Their will to strive for something better, becoming better, etc. Because they don't have to fight for it any more. Because whether one is dumb or intelligent doesn't matter any more, because everybody gets the same rights, and privileges in schools, and universities. So, even a dumbfuck can get a Masters degree in architecture. For what? Just to be up-to-par with equal rights amongst people. Just to uphold a delusional ideology of "Everybody is equal". They'll be stuck at a certain level, and will never try to exceed it, and eventually their society will collapse. Those who are intelligent, are not allowed to improve their knowledge and intellect even further, because that would be unfair for those who are not so smart, etc. It would lead to inequality.
While the criteria for "Survival of the fittest" have changed throughout time, it still exists in all of us. Today it isn't about being physically the strongest any more. Today it's about being intellectually stronger, and being more ambitious than others. It shifted, but it's always about the same - being the best in something. Winning, or losing. The stronger will always exploit the weaker.

Your "no border in the world" idea is purely decadent. And, yes, thank God, not all people think like you. The fact that we're not equal makes us want to become better, etc. But hey, live on in your oh so better, perfect world where everybody thinks like you.

See S.A.M., I find it really shameless of you to say that I think like that when all I said is what people think as a whole. Yes, they're more primitive than you think. Get along with that idea.
 
... most people have the tendency to stick to their own fellows, to stick together with those with whom they have the most in common, and that's why, for example, in a Multiculti city you'll notice that people of the same culture are prone to stick together instead of mixing together with the others. Yes, to some point they will mix together with others, but that requires a good portion of time, but even then, on a larger scale they'll still prefer to stick together with the fellows of the same culture as them. And yes, I'm aware that there are exceptions..., but they're just exceptions, a minority.
True, but we don't have borders in a city.
People manage to live peacefully with each other without controls on where they go.

btw calling people decadent or sissies is not good argument, it's childish.
 
I agree that no one system is a perfect one. But we no longer live in small tribes and invade our neighbors. We can think beyond our immediate surroundings, enjoy other languages, food, people, not be surprised by interracial marriages and see for ourselves that all people share common desires.

There is much more to gain by accomodating each other and too much to lose making weapons of mass destruction. So again, I'll say, we need fewer people like you, to make the difference.
 
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