Bah Bah Black Sheep

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No thats why I am ignoring any personal opinions you may have.

You must be judged by your group.

Moreover you are a white Englsh person so I can hold you responsible for 200 years of British occupation in India/

Hmm this is good.:D
 
Do you feel that there are no such thing as group dynamics? Commonly held social constructs?
 
Agreed, I demand compensation for your group atrocities. You ...nazi!!! :mad:
 
Oh, some people have, and some indeed deserve such compensation. Perhaps when churches may be freely built in the Middle East, minarets will have more favour with the Swiss.

In time, even pigs may fly.
 
Indeed, the whole world should use Saudi Arabia as the model for social behaviour. We'll even build the next Caliphate there so that everyone can focus on it before deciding on what they should follow. Thats like having sharia without any outside intervention.
 
Well, it's hardly just the ol' Saudis, you understand. But it would be a start.
 
No I think the Saudis make good leaders. They could be the model for the EU to follow. All Muslims will be encouraged by being compared to the Saudis.
 
Not at all. It will become progressive to preserve your identity by suppressing the civil rights of minorities. I think the Muslim nations protesting the Swiss move are unimaginative and short sighted. They should welcome this recognition of their policies as just.
 
I think it will be the route that will be taken. Once "preserving the identity" pwns civil rights, everyone in the Middle East will be "understood" to have done the right thing all along. Bully for the minorities, but they can always emigrate to Antarctica.

Its not difficult either, you already make these arguments in a separate context

Race-based. religion-based colour-based identity is the new black
 
The problem that S.A.M. doesn't seem to understand is, that in Switzerland since a few years radical Muslims have shown their face, and the support for radical groups such as the Grey Wolves, Al Kaida even amongst the 'moderate' Muslims has surfaced, too. Just like, sadly, that quite a large portion of the Muslim population in Europe has shown contempt for Western values, and put the Shariah over our laws.

And numbers of bold requests from Muslims have increased. In a school in Aargau, they had to paste something over the little lucky pigs in a Maths book for Primary school because protests and massive complaints came from the Muslim parents. The school has even stopped serving pork as a matter of course. Even Christmas celebrations in schools have been put into question because Muslim kids are not allowed to partake in celebrations of non-believers. Whether to teach gym class or not. They even requested that Switzerland should legally recognise Islam, and give it all its privileges that it would receive in an Islamic country. Then requests about how the Swiss system of justice should be adjusted to Islam in what concerns the matrimonial law, and criminal law, basically we should integrate Shariah laws, and allow Shariah courts. Then they request for their own cemeteries, which would be okay if it weren't based on the fact that they want this because they said that our cemeteries are polluted with non-believers, and are just generally impure in their eyes. A lot of important Muslim figures in Switzerland are convinced that not they should adapt to our society, but that our society should adapt to Islam. In 2007, in Geneva, suddenly the part of the staff of the Muslim community that has been advocating for a liberal Islam have been dismissed, and were replaced with dubios personas who were directly flown in from Saudi Arabia. The 'Neue Zuercher Zeitung' reported that according to insiders an internal culture-war amongst the moderate Muslims, and the fundamentalists was taking place. The Swiss have nothing against Moslems. We're not scared of Islam, or the liberal, and moderate Muslims. What we're worried about is that such a development like in Geneva is developing further and further. With the results of the votes, our folk has clearly put a halt to it in a symbolical way.

And it turns out, that those who are truly moderate do not really care about the Minaret ban, they say that to practice their religion there's no need for a Minaret. I believe in these Muslims. And it wouldn't surprise me if some of them voted for the initiative.

Also, the fact that you're drawing comparisons between racism/pogroms and a minaret ban just shows how moderate of a Muslim you are. I didn't know that to worship Allah one has to have a minaret. The Swiss Muslims lived for tens of years without minarets and never had any problems. The sudden tons of minaret requests and dismissal of the truly moderate muslim leaders are just a sign of how many radicalised Muslims are showing their presence in Switzerland. Good thing that we finally showed them where the acceptable limit is.
 
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PsychoTropicPuppy said:
The problem that S.A.M. doesn't seem to understand is, that in Switzerland since a few years radical Muslims have shown their face, and the support for radical groups such as the Grey Wolves, Al Kaida even amongst the 'moderate' Muslims has surfaced, too. Just like, sadly, that quite a large portion of the Muslim population in Europe has shown contempt for Western values, and put the Shariah over our laws. .
Click to expand...

The 7% of Muslims in all the EU are responsible less than 1% of all crime. This is what it means to weigh your prejudice against the facts.
 
S.A.M. said:
Most of them are "radicalised" by the racism they face. There will probably be some recruitment of Swiss Muslims by the radicals now. Its how these things work.

The problem with Muslims is we are not shy with our opinions, so it makes us more visible.
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Well if the response to a lack of minarets in Switzerland is radicalization and terror attacks they will only make things worse for the muslims who work there as they will all be asked to leave. What kind of a religion is this that forces itself on the majority who obviously do not want anymore bloody minarets on their land? What kind of religious people turn to violence over a cartoon or minarets?

Its crazy.
 
PsychoTropicPuppy said:
The problem that S.A.M. doesn't seem to understand is, that in Switzerland since a few years radical Muslims have shown their face, and the support for radical groups such as the Grey Wolves, Al Kaida even amongst the 'moderate' Muslims has surfaced, too. Just like, sadly, that quite a large portion of the Muslim population in Europe has shown contempt for Western values, and put the Shariah over our laws.

And numbers of bold requests from Muslims have increased. In a school in Aargau, they had to paste something over the little lucky pigs in a Maths book for Primary school because protests and massive complaints came from the Muslim parents. The school has even stopped serving pork as a matter of course. Even Christmas celebrations in schools have been put into question because Muslim kids are not allowed to partake in celebrations of non-believers. Whether to teach gym class or not. They even requested that Switzerland should legally recognise Islam, and give it all its privileges that it would receive in an Islamic country. Then requests about how the Swiss system of justice should be adjusted to Islam in what concerns the matrimonial law, and criminal law, basically we should integrate Shariah laws, and allow Shariah courts. Then they request for their own cemeteries, which would be okay if it weren't based on the fact that they want this because they said that our cemeteries are polluted with non-believers, and are just generally impure in their eyes. A lot of important Muslim figures in Switzerland are convinced that not they should adapt to our society, but that our society should adapt to Islam. In 2007, in Geneva, suddenly the part of the staff of the Muslim community that has been advocating for a liberal Islam have been dismissed, and were replaced with dubios personas who were directly flown in from Saudi Arabia. The 'Neue Zuercher Zeitung' reported that according to insiders an internal culture-war amongst the moderate Muslims, and the fundamentalists was taking place. The Swiss have nothing against Moslems. We're not scared of Islam, or the liberal, and moderate Muslims. What we're worried about is that such a development like in Geneva is developing further and further. With the results of the votes, our folk has clearly put a halt to it in a symbolical way.
Click to expand...

High maintenance aren't they! Denmark has had similar problems in their schools as the Swiss. Danes now wish they had curbed the number of muslim immigrants, the only group who refuses to integrate into the host society. They don't yield, they just expect the host society to bend over and get it from behind.
 
I don't think there is any danger of radicalisation in the EU [I believe in 2008 Islamist attacks were zero?], I think Switzerland will lose credibility as a neutral arbiter for any issues where Muslims are concerned [like Palestine] and will be seen as a state with rising Islamophobia. Comments by the people's party that they will drop out of international treaties rather than follow them, will only cement this impression. The damage will be to the Swiss brand and will affect Swiss credibility. Essentially they have singled out only Muslims for architectural display of religion, which is obvious religious discrimination. There will be appeals in the ECJ and EUHCR and discussions all over Europe and in the UN at the end of it, it will do nothing to change one single issue with Muslims in the country except to make it more and more obvious that they are not welcome there.
 
S.A.M. said:
Since we are talking about history, the history of whites is proof that they will always use their power to undermine the rights of others. So we should never expect anything but a steady stream of pogroms from the Europeans. Its been what, 60 years since the last one? Someone should map the frequency of pogroms by year/decade/century. Maybe its time for their next one. The way things are going in European politics certainly seems to indicate that.

I can see how this generalising works. I'm sure seeing all whites as potential racists and mass murderers will keep me safe
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Well if this is true then why do these immigrants continue to flood European borders? They should go to a country of 'nice brown' non-racist people. The Swiss are seeing what is happening in other parts of Europe and choosing to go down a different road. Islamophobia seems to be worldwide at the moment, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, Russia, China. Why would that be?
 
Hope is eternal? Always seems like they are getting over it, maybe.
 
S.A.M. said:
I don't think there is any danger of radicalisation in the EU [I believe in 2008 Islamist attacks were zero?], I think Switzerland will lose credibility as a neutral arbiter for any issues where Muslims are concerned [like Palestine] and will be seen as a state with rising Islamophobia. Comments by the people's party that they will drop out of international treaties rather than follow them, will only cement this impression. The damage will be to the Swiss brand and will affect Swiss credibility. Essentially they have singled out only Muslims for architectural display of religion, which is obvious religious discrimination. There will be appeals in the ECJ and EUHCR and discussions all over Europe and in the UN at the end of it, it will do nothing to change one single issue with Muslims in the country except to make it more and more obvious that they are not welcome there.
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I disagree. I think the only people who will care about this in a month are other muslim nations. The Swiss are not so important when it comes to issues like Israel and Palestine, not as much as the British and US. They have not discriminated against muslims they just don't want any minarets. They are not singling them out for beatings, standing at the back of lines, they are not being turned out of apartments and jobs. They are free to pray if they like. The Swiss are not EU members and the decision was made by referendum, the law only represents the democratic wishes of the people. Are you suggesting that the Swiss defer to the minority and suppress the wishes of the majority?
 
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