Aung San Suu Kyi.. The Fall of a Human Rights Icon..

[Bells]

of course... the example was about self determination examples

did you miss that bit?

Which do not apply to the Rohingya.

What part of that do you have difficulty understanding?

true, but they are seeking :
The right of self-determination of the Rohingya people must be given within a Burmese federation.
What bit don't you understand?

If their statement read:

The right of self-determination of the Rohingya.​

Then you might have a tid bit of a point.

However, the sentence, you keep repeating because you think it means they are seeking independence, read in full and in context with the rest of their aims and goals, clearly and explicitly states that a) they are not seeking independence and b) they wish to live as Burmese citizens:

The right of ‘self-determination’ of the Rohingya people within the Burmese federation; preservation of their (Rohingya’s) history and cultural heritage without prejudice to the growth and preservation of other religious and indigenous culture in Arakan; condemnation of religious persecution by the military; repatriation of Rohingya refugees from their places of refuge; human resource development particularly in socio-cultural, economic, educational and technical fields; establishment of a welfare society based on equality, liberty, democracy, human rights and freedom for all peoples; “peaceful co-existence” with Rakhine community (Buddhist of Arakan) and among all other peoples in Arakan as well as in the whole of the country;​

Absolutely nothing in that declares they are seeking independence and it certainly does not support your next ridiculous claim and lie:

nope.. I am saying that Sharia law is intrinsic to Islam (fact) and they are seeking self determination to pursue Sharia law. Self determination for Muslim communities involves the overt (rather than covert) establishment of Sharia law.

Do you have a problem with that?

You are being dishonest and you are lying.

Nowhere, absolutely nowhere do they claim that they wish to pursue Sharia Law, nor do they claim that they wish to establish a caliphate as you have repeated in this thread, nor do they claim that they are seeking self determination to "pursue Sharia Law".

Nowhere does it say that "self determination for Muslim communities involves the overt (rather than covert) establishment of Sharia Law..

In other words, you are lying. Completely and utterly.

And you are attempting to badly infer and claim that the Rohingya are trying to establish an Islamic caliphate in Burma, with absolutely no evidence to back up that claim. Instead, you have decided to completely ignore what they have said and instead, you have attempted to apply your lies and propaganda to them.. For what reasons? Given this discussion is about genocide and ethnic cleansing, perhaps your desire to spout your anti-Rohingya and anti-Muslim propaganda is designed to stifle discussing the complicity of Aung San Suu Kyi and her role as leader of her party and the country in said genocide and ethnic cleansing. For the last few pages now, you have actively sought to derail this thread and you have refused to stop lying and spreading propaganda. Enough is enough.

If this keeps up, I am going to remove all of these off topic posts, put them in a separate thread and lock it and request you be moderated for not only trolling and flaming, but also for stereotyping and bigotry. Have I made myself clear? This ends now.

You have consistently failed to support any of your arguments, instead, your propaganda and lies have just gotten worse and worse, to the point where you are now declaring that they are "seeking self determination to pursue Sharia Law" after declaring they wished to establish an Islamic caliphate. This is wrong, false and lies and the exact kind of propaganda the people who are committing acts of ethnic cleansing and genocide are using as justification for their crimes.

I am not claiming they want independance I am simply explaining their agenda according to ARNO
They want to be self determined ( sharia law) with in a federation...

That is not what their agenda is, according to the ARNO. So stop lying.

Also:

From what I have read the Rohingya have been advocating a separatist position since the British left them all too it. They have never considered themselves to be Burmese but have maintained their own ethnic purity similar to how the Jews also did in Europe prior to founding Israel and managing to throw off the label of being stateless.

Hateful propaganda with no basis in truth. You are lying. They have never advocated for a separatist position and they have consistently considered themselves as Burmese, hence why they want to have their citizenship reinstated. Separatists tend to not care about such things. As for your racial purity bullshit, really, not only are you doing it to the people currently facing genocide and ethnic cleansing, you also apply it to the victims of the Holocaust. So stop lying when you claim you never said they wanted independence. You claimed they are separatists, that they want their own ethnic purity without so much as a link to support your claim, you have claimed that Muslims in Indonesia pose a risk to the Buddhists in Burma, you have claimed that the Rohingya are trying to establish an Islamic caliphate in Myanmar.. Despite repeated explanations of what 'self determination within Burma' means, and provided you with links to back up my argument, you have responded with even more offensive propaganda against victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Are you being paid by the Burmese Government to spread propaganda? Because right now, that is the rancid stench coming off you.

How many time do you want me to repeat myself...

Or do you want to tell me what I am writing instead of reading what I write?

I'll deal with your all your false accusations later... ( there is an awful lot of them)

Oh no, you are done.

You have been trolling this thread for pages now and your propaganda and stereotyping has gotten even worse, to the point of parroting the propaganda that is being used to incite ethnic cleansing and genocide in Myanmar.

The caliphate is the natural outcome of establishing Sharia law ( self determination)
is that beyond you?.. do you want me to explain it in another way perhaps...?

Nowhere.. They are not stating they want to establish Sharia law anywhere. That is your invention because you are too gormless to understand what "self determination" in the context of their aims and goals means, despite this being posted to you repeatedly. So it comes down to this...

You are either downright stupid and a moron, or you are a malicious bastard who is deliberately choosing to spread and repeat the propaganda that is being used to incite ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Rohingya right now. Because that is what this comes down to. There is no other excuse for your behaviour and your hateful and offensive stereotyping in this thread, not to mention condoning genocide and ethnic cleansing, for example:

and then what would happen if they attempted to do so...
They would be breaking the law... yes.. like the Rohingya man did in Springvale recently. He broke the law. He is now in prison.

How ever if over 1 million Muslims decided to establish Sharia law in Australia what would happen then?

Revolution perhaps?
Military action perhaps?

well... apply the understanding to the situation in one of the poorest countries in the world, a fledgling democracy that seeks to establish the rule of law...One law. Certainly not Sharia law and certainly not 2 laws.

and bingo you have an insight to tell your grandchildren...

You are a sick sick man who really should seek help. Considering that you have spent pages spouting rhetoric and propaganda based on complete and utter lies, the exact same type of propaganda that is being used to incite ethnic cleansing and genocide against the very people you have spent pages maligning and lying about, we are done. I have already requested this thread be reviewed. Go and carry water for people who commit genocide and ethnic cleansing elsewhere. You aren't doing it in this thread any further. And if you do, I will moderate you. Your hateful and offensive and bigoted rhetoric has gone on for long enough. Your attempts to derail this thread ends here and now. You're done.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I'll give it a few days to let you cool down and allow time for your review to take place.
Other readers feed back is actually quite positive.
Including my Muslim flat mate...
but I will leave you with this one comment...
It does not matter what I believe. It matters only what the military and militia in Myanmar believe.
Edit: And yes they also have internet access..

 

[Quantum Quack]

An article by the ABC that may provide insight:

Myanmar: How the military still controls the country, not Aung San Suu Kyi
today: 24-09-2017
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-24/how-military-controls-myanmar-not-aung-san-suu-kyi/8978042

 

[Bells]

Stages of grief for the death of a myth...

That stark disconnect between the symbol for Western values we thought Suu Kyi to be, and the reality of her rule in Myanmar is still something that baffles our understanding in Western media. The response to this contrast, especially as the Rohingya crisis continues to develop, seems to be going through the four stages of grief. Many of us are still at the stage of denial. Many articles have been published to explain how Suu Kyi does not actually have the power to stop the military abuses against the Rohingya in Rakhine state even if she wanted to, and that her hands are tied.

It is true that the military retains significant powers despite there being an elected civilian government in the country. And it is equally true that matters of international relations and internal security fall within the responsibility of the military. The military does have de jure authority over how it responds to the attacks of the insurgent group Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA) in Rakhine state.

But it is untrue and disingenuous to suggest that Suu Kyi has no power to change the course of events. She has most of the people of her country behind her, and she can take them just about anywhere. And both her and the military know that is a powerful consideration. She may not be able to, and should not dispute the need for the security forces to respond to the violent threat of ARSA. But she can and should dispute how that response involves the burning down of entire villages, the rape of women, the killings of children, the mining of paths leading across the border into Bangladesh, and the pushing half of the Rohingya population in Myanmar out of the country in the space of just one month.

However, many people who have known Suu Kyi for some time and have worked with her have come to believe that her decision to provide cover for the army goes much deeper than being a balancing act between a universalist humanitarian and pragmatic politician. She in fact, like many of the elite in Myanmar, shares many of the beliefs of the military leaders and actually supports their action.

Mark Farmaner, Director of UK Burma Campaign and a pioneer of the Free Aung San Suu Kyi Campaign met with her a number of times in Myanmar. He came to the conclusion quite quickly that “she doesn’t see Burma as a multi-ethnic multi-religious country but a Burma-Buddhist country with ethnic minorities.” In fact, in one discussion with her she complained how the non-Rohingya Muslims of Burma needed to integrate. When mark informed his Muslim Burmese friend of the conversation, he was all too familiar with such Buddhist supremacist language: “We are fully integrated in every way in every level of society and have been part of Burma for as long as the Buddhists. The only thing we haven’t done is change our religion, and the Buddhists never accept that.” Farmaner also does not believe her decision to provide cover for the army is a political calculation:

“She is not willing to speak out on any of the issues even the Kachin of the Shan, let alone the Rohingya. I don’t accept that she has made a political calculation on not speaking out for the Rohingya. Her friends are briefing western diplomats and foreign press that if she steps out of line the military are waiting to take back control. This is a myth. This entire system has been created by the military. It is working perfectly for them. Sanctions have been lifted, people are on their side and they are very popular. There is no way they will take back control. They can even engaged in ethnic cleansing and getting away with it.”

Former Australian MP and now academic specialising in Myanmar, Ronan Lee, was probably the first westerner to meet with Aung San Suu Kyi after her release from house arrest in 2010. He also had grave reservations on Aung San Suu Kyi after he probed a little deeper:

“We didn’t get ASSK so wrong. I published papers in 2014 saying that she had serious issues with the Rohingya. We chose to ignore them because we hoped she would live up to the Nobel Prize she received. I examined her demeanor, her speeches and her writings. I read the booklet where she said ‘We are proud Burmese and not kalaa’ (Kalaa is a derogatory term for darker skin people, like the Rohingya). In my mind she is a Burmese nationalist.”

People who know her personally and have worked with her on these kinds of issues in the past, were neither surprised nor heartbroken by Suu Kyi’s response to the Rohingya crisis. They were saddened to see that she has not tried to live up to her international image.

[...]

Aung San Suu Kyi has not, over the past month, become a different person. She is the same person she has always been. She remains to pro-democracy leader and visionary she was when she received the Nobel Peace Prize. All that has changed is that now, we finally get to find out that her vision for democracy for her country never included the Rohingya. She may not have chosen to cleanse the Rohingya from the country herself, but she doesn’t terribly mind if that were to come to pass. She never would have minded.
[Source]​

Let us know when you leave the stage of denial.

 

[Quantum Quack]

so what exactly are you accusing ASSK of?

 

[Bells]

so what exactly are you accusing ASSK of?

Still in the denial phase, I see..

You can go back and read the OP: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/aung-san-suu-kyi-the-fall-of-a-human-rights-icon.159909/

For an answer to that question.

This isn't a new issue in regards to her. For example, the article quoted and linked in my previous post was from two days ago.

But here is one from April of this year:

In February, a report by the United Nations documented how the Burmese army’s attacks on the Rohingya were “widespread as well as systematic” thus “indicating the very likely commission of crimes against humanity.” More than half of the 101 Rohingya women interviewed by UN investigators across the border in Bangladesh said they had suffered rape or other forms of sexual violence at the hands of security forces. “They beat and killed my husband with a knife,” one survivor recalled. “Five of them took off my clothes and raped me. My eight-month old son was crying of hunger when they were in my house because he wanted to breastfeed, so to silence him they killed him too with a knife.”

And the response of Aung San Suu Kyi? This once-proud campaigner against wartime rape and human rights abuses by the Burmese military has opted to borrow from the Donald Trump playbook of denial and deflection. Her office accused Rohingya women of fabricating stories of sexual violence and put the words “fake rape” — in the form of a banner headline, no less — on its official website. A spokesperson for the Foreign Ministry — also controlled directly by Aung San Suu Kyi — dismissed“made-up stories, blown out of proportion.” In February, the State Counselor herself reportedly told the Archbishop of Yangon, Charles Bo, that the international community is exaggerating the Rohingya issue.

This is Trumpism 101: Deny. Discredit. Smear.

[...]

The standard Western media narrative is to accuse The Lady, as she is known by her admirers, of silence and of a grotesque failure to speak out against these human rights abuses. In an editorial last May, the New York Times denounced Suu Kyi’s “cowardly stance on the Rohingya.”

Yet hers is not merely a crime of omission, a refusal to denounce or condemn. Hers are much worse crimes of commission. She took a deliberate decision to try and discredit the Rohingya victims of rape. She went out of her way to accuse human rights groups and foreign journalists of exaggerations and fabrications. She demanded that the U.S. government stop using the name “Rohingya” — thereby perpetuating the pernicious myth that the Muslims of Rakhine are “Bengali” interlopers (rather than a Burmese community with a centuries-long presence inside Myanmar.) She also appointed a former army general to investigate the recent attacks on the Rohingya and he produced a report in January that, not surprisingly, whitewashed the well-documented crimes of his former colleagues in the Burmese military.

Silence, therefore, is the least of her sins. Silence also suggests a studied neutrality. Yet there is nothing neutral about Aung San Suu Kyi’s stance. She has picked her side and it is the side of Buddhist nationalism and crude Islamophobia.

In 2013, after an interview with the BBC’s Mishal Husain, Aung San Suu Kyi complained, “No one told me I was going to be interviewed by a Muslim.” In 2015, ahead of historic parliamentary elections, the NLD leader purged her party of all Muslim candidates, resulting in the country’s first legislature without any Muslim representation whatsoever. Like a Burmese Steve Bannon, she paranoiacally speaks of “global Muslim power” being “very great” — only 4 percent of the Burmese population, incidentally, is Muslim — while conspiratorially dismissing reports of Buddhist-orchestrated massacres in Rakhine as “Muslims killing Muslims.”

This is a form of genocide denial, delivered in a soft tone and posh voice by a telegenic Nobel Peace Prize winner. Genocide, though, sounds like an exaggeration, doesn’t it? Pro-Rohingya propaganda, perhaps? Yet independent study after independent study has come to the same stark and depressing conclusion: genocide is being carried out against the Rohingya. For example, an October 2015 legal analysis by the Allard K. Lowenstein International Human Rights Clinic at Yale Law School, found “strong evidence… that genocidal acts have been committed against Rohingya” and “that such acts have been committed with the intent to destroy the Rohingya, in whole or in part.”

Another report published in the same month, by the International State Crime Initiative at Queen Mary University of London, concluded that “the Rohingya face the final stages of genocide” and noted how “state-sponsored stigmatisation, discrimination, violence and segregation … make precarious the very existence of the Rohingya.”

Aung San Suu Kyi, argues Maung Zarni, a Burmese scholar and founder of the Free Burma Coalition, holds “genocidal views towards the Rohingya” because “she denies Rohingya identity and history.” Genocide, he tells me, “begins with an attack on identity and history. The victims never existed and … will never exist.”

The State Counselor, from this perspective, is not simply standing by as genocide occurs; she is legitimizing, encouraging and enabling it. When a legendary champion of human rights is in charge of a government that undertakes military operations against “terrorists,” smearing and discrediting the victims of gang rape and loudly denying the burning down of villages and forced expulsion of families, it makes it much harder for the international community to highlight those crimes, let alone intervene to halt them. In recent years, in fact, Western governments have been rolling back political and economic sanctions on Myanmar, citing the country’s “progress“on democracy and pointing to the election victory of Aung San Suu Kyi and her NLD.

Politicians and pundits in the West, observes Zarni, long ago adopted Aung San Suu Kyi as “their liberal darling — petite, attractive, Oxford-educated ‘Oriental’ woman with the most prestigious pedigree, married to a white man, an Oxford don, connected with the British Establishment.” Belatedly, the West’s journalists, diplomats and human rights groups “are waking up to the ugly realities that she is neither principled nor liberal,” he adds.​

It's time to wake up.

Nothing has changed. Same shit, different day. Her latest public statement is a fraud. She lied. She is absolutely complicit.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Let us say that everything you have written is correct and indeed she is guilty of all the "crimes" you are accusing her of.
What are the chances of her facing justice for her crimes when the more obvious genocide in Yemen being perpetrated by the Saudi and sponsored by the USA is continuing unabated?

 

[origin]

The initial response of Aung San Suu Kyi to the ethnic cleansing was silence, which was very disturbing. I was horrified when she finally did breaker silence and essentially supported the military. Racism is a cancer that can effect anyone. How fucking sad!

 

[Bells]

The initial response of Aung San Suu Kyi to the ethnic cleansing was silence, which was very disturbing. I was horrified when she finally did breaker silence and essentially supported the military. Racism is a cancer that can effect anyone. How fucking sad!

It is, isn't it?

I think what many are grappling with is the fact that this was not really unexpected. The signs had been there for a long time. We just didn't really want to see it.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Just to indicate the seriousness and potentials of the situation I mentioned earlier and was castigated for...
Another article ABC Australia today : 25-09-2017
Rohingya exodus: Myanmar at risk of becoming a magnet for global jihadists

www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/myanmar-at-risk-of-becoming-a-magnet-for-global-jihadists/8979568

 

[Quantum Quack]

To help put it in perspective:
src: http://www.aljazeera.com/video/news...les-rohingya-citizenship-170327141825350.html
dated: 28-03-2017

 

[Quantum Quack]

It is, isn't it?

I think what many are grappling with is the fact that this was not really unexpected. The signs had been there for a long time. We just didn't really want to see it.

Just for the record, after performing some significant research into the issue of Arakan (Rakhine) state independence movement I have formed the opinion that you are terribly mistaken about Aung San Suu Kyi 's motivation in remaining silent and appearing to condone the ongoing abuses of the self titled Rohingya people.

I have come to the conclusion that the only reason the Rohingya are still alive today any where in Myanmar is because of the strength of her support, both internationally and internally, restraining the military and the Buddhist majority from completing the genocide and ethnic cleansing that has been ongoing since the Rohingya started their fight for independence of the Arakan ( Rakhine ) state.

You seek to undermine her international support and I find that reprehensible knowing what I have come to know.

If Aung San Suu Kyi is removed from office or is seen to be overly supporting of Rakhine (Arakan) independence her ability to minimize the ethnic cleansing would be seriously diminished. Millions of Rohingya would most likely die as a consequence.

I am seriously considering doing the work necessary to put together a thread that fully explains this and shall post a link here if and when I get to it..

Summary:

Undermining international support and the majority ethnic popularity of Aung San Suu Kyi and the influence that this allows will almost definitely lead to unbridled genocide in Myanmar and solve nothing except ridding the Maynmar of the Rohingya for ever.

• This is my opinion today and I am fully entitled to it. (Article18 UDHR)
  
• It is directly related to the thread OP
• If this post is deleted or other wise unfairly moderated I shall post a copy elsewhere.

#James R

 

[Bells]

Just to indicate the seriousness and potentials of the situation I mentioned earlier and was castigated for...
Another article ABC Australia today : 25-09-2017
Rohingya exodus: Myanmar at risk of becoming a magnet for global jihadists

www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/myanmar-at-risk-of-becoming-a-magnet-for-global-jihadists/8979568

You declared their goals was to establish an Islamic caliphate.

They are at risk of radicalisation because they are so horrifically persecuted and are the victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Just for the record, after performing some significant research into the issue of Arakan (Rakhine) state independence movement I have formed the opinion that you are terribly mistaken about Aung San Suu Kyi 's motivation in remaining silent and appearing to condone the ongoing abuses of the self titled Rohingya people.

I have come to the conclusion that the only reason the Rohingya are still alive today any where in Myanmar is because of the strength of her support, both internationally and internally, restraining the military and the Buddhist majority from completing the genocide and ethnic cleansing that has been ongoing since the Rohingya started their fight for independence of the Arakan ( Rakhine ) state.

Great!

Then it should be easy to prove it, with supporting links.

You have repeatedly opined that she has no control over the military throughout this thread. But now you claim that her support helps her control said military. Prove it.

Provide links that support your argument. If you cannot, retract your claims. Simple enough?

You seek to undermine her international support and I find that reprehensible knowing what I have come to know.

Criticising her actions is my seeking to undermine her international support?

Thus far, you have parroted her actions, not only in mocking the victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing, you have cast doubt upon what they are enduring, you have made spurious claims, such as their wanting independence and that her actions is keeping the Rohingya alive, despite all evidence to the contrary (lying to cover for the military doing the ethnic cleansing and genocide to allow them to keep doing it, is generally not an act that helps keep the victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing alive), you have spread propaganda against the Rohingya, the very same propaganda that is being used as an excuse to drive them from Myanmar and to destroy them as a people.. And you have failed to support every single one of your claims with actual fact.

If Aung San Suu Kyi is removed from office or is seen to be overly supporting of Rakhine (Arakan) independence her ability to minimize the ethnic cleansing would be seriously diminished. Millions of Rohingya would most likely die as a consequence.

You have yet to prove that she is "minimising the ethnic cleansing" to begin with.

I am seriously considering doing the work necessary to put together a thread that fully explains this and shall post a link here if and when I get to it..

Oh no. You see, if you fail to support any of your claims, you will be moderated.

Because if you are going to spread propaganda against a persecuted people and make comments such as this:

They have never considered themselves to be Burmese but have maintained their own ethnic purity similar to how the Jews also did in Europe prior to founding Israel and managing to throw off the label of being stateless. Romani Gypsies also did similar but currently remain stateless.

Which is pure drivel, stereotyping and propaganda, without any proof whatsoever, you are in breach of this site's rules. For example, the doozy about how the Jews maintained their ethnic purity "in Europe prior to founding Israel and managing to throw off the label of being stateless".. I take it you missed something? As in, what happened prior to the "Jews founding Israel", not to mention something something about the UK, the UN and the partition..

So, provide evidence that the Rohingya want their independence, that they want their own state, that they wish to establish an Islamic Caliphate in Burma, that it is they who do not wish to assimilate in Burma (despite the fact that they did and were legally prevented from doing so by the Government), that Aung San Suu Kyi is actually acting to their benefit in everything that she has done thus far (which is nothing, except for lying for the military to ensure they can continue the killing).

That's just the tip of the iceberg of the utter rubbish you have spouted in this thread. Start providing links to support your claims. Or admit that you lied.

Summary:

Undermining international support and the majority ethnic popularity of Aung San Suu Kyi and the influence that this allows will almost definitely lead to unbridled genocide in Myanmar and solve nothing except ridding the Maynmar of the Rohingya for ever.

And my summary:

You have spent pages spreading propaganda against a persecuted minority who at this very moment, are fleeing for their lives to escape ethnic cleansing and genocide. You have mocked them, you have openly supported the people who are complicit and aiding said genocide and you have attempted to deny it is even happening. I don't think I need to articulate what kind of person that makes you, do I? Should be fairly obvious.

• This is my opinion today and I am fully entitled to it. (Article18 UDHR)
  
• It is directly related to the thread OP
• If this post is deleted or other wise unfairly moderated I shall post a copy elsewhere.

#James R

Firstly, this isn't twitter. So hash-tagging people into the thread does not work.

Secondly, UDHR does not support hate speech and propaganda that is used to incite violence and hatred towards a persecuted minority who are the victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Quite the contrary, Article 18 of the UDHR applies to the Rohingya - you know, religious freedom and whatnot.

Thirdly, you have derailed this thread in your bid to spread propaganda and stereotype the Rohingya and you have not provided one single bit of evidence to support any of your claims.

And finally, your threat to override moderator actions.. If your posts are moderated and you then repost it elsewhere on this website:

Interfering with moderation
I20. Interfering with moderation will result in an immediate ban from sciforums. Examples: re-editing or deleting a post that has been edited by a moderator or which has otherwise been the subject of moderator action; reposting a post that has been deleted by a moderator.​

You should also take a good long look at the sections pertaining to "Hate Speech", "Knowingly posting false and misleading information", "Trolling", "Propaganda" and "Off-Topic" posts.

You were asked to stick to the topic. Instead, you are repeating the same false claims and propaganda against people who are currently facing genocide and ethnic cleansing because of the exact same type of stereotyping and propaganda that you have repeated in this thread. You were asked to provide evidence for all of your claims, you have failed to provide one link to support your claims. What you have provided (not even by link, but by your own twisted interpretation) did not mean what you thought it meant and instead of accepting that, you kept repeating said false claims as though they were fact.

 

[Quantum Quack]

uhmm no ... I simply stated my opinion #172... as it relates to the topic.
summed up as follows


"Undermining international support and the majority ethnic popularity of Aung San Suu Kyi and the influence that this allows will almost definitely lead to unbridled genocide in Myanmar and solve nothing except ridding the Maynmar of the Rohingya for ever."

now please tell the board how this is hate speech?
Your diatribe against Aung is more hateful than anything I have written...

the hash tag is for you , the link is for James R

 

[Quantum Quack]

The last time moderators were shouting down posters and making false claims against them ended very badly... do you remember?

 

[Bells]

uhmm no ... I simply state my opinion... as it relates to the topic.

When you make statements like this:

"Undermining international support and the majority ethnic popularity of Aung San Suu Kyi and the influence that this allows will almost definitely lead to unbridled genocide in Myanmar and solve nothing except ridding the Maynmar of the Rohingya for ever."

You need to provide proof that what she is doing is helping the Rohingya. Because all evidence points to the complete opposite. You are literally saying that she, because of the support she has, is what is helping the Rohingya.. That it is the loss of support that is resulting in the genocide. And frankly, I cannot undermine what she lost a fair while ago now.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And that is a doozy of a claim. All evidence points to the complete opposite of what you are saying.

For example, I said that she was complicit in the ethnic cleansing and genocide and I have provided dozens of links to support that a) there is ethnic cleansing and genocide and b) that her actions have made her complicit.

Your response is to make unsubstantiated and extraordinary claims, you have spread propaganda against the Rohingya, mocked their suffering, alluded to it being lies, you stereotyped them because they are Muslim, you made false claims that they want independence and that their goal is to establish an Islamic Caliphate in Myanmar, that Indonesia poses a threat to Myanmar because it has over 200 million Muslims and that criticising her would somehow or other result in said Indonesian threat, to claims that Aung San Suu Kyi is helping save their lives by her actions and silence because of the support she has internationally and in Myanmar itself..

These are extraordinary claims, QQ. And when people make such extraordinary claims, there is an expectation that they be able to support it.

 

[Bells]

The last time moderators were shouting down posters and making false claims against them ended very badly... do you remember?

Alluding to these types of threats will not help you, QQ. Far from it.

I started this thread to discuss her actions which amount to complicity to the horrors being perpetrated against the Rohingya. You decided to derail that thread and post propaganda and lies and when challenged to provide evidence to support your claims, you resort to alluding to threats and you have directly stated that if you are moderated for derailing the thread and spreading propaganda and hate speech against victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing, you will interfere with said moderation. This is not acceptable by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Quantum Quack]

You declared their goals was to establish an Islamic caliphate.

I have that opinion yes... this is true
Independence for the state of Arakan has been hotly disputed for ages...
common knowledge:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakhine_State

They are at risk of radicalisation because they are so horrifically persecuted and are the victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Very true and I couldn't agree more..but yet again this is only my opinion.
[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakhine_State']

Great!

Then it should be easy to prove it, with supporting links.

You have repeatedly opined that she has no control over the military throughout this thread. But now you claim that her support helps her control said military. Prove it.

Provide links that support your argument. If you cannot, retract your claims. Simple enough?

I am not making an argument.
I am stating my opinion which I am fully entitled to do.
Your hostility and sensitivity to what you claim to be propaganda etc prevents any worthwhile discussion

Criticising her actions is my seeking to undermine her international support?

Thus far, you have parroted her actions, not only in mocking the victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing, you have cast doubt upon what they are enduring, you have made spurious claims, such as their wanting independence and that her actions is keeping the Rohingya alive, despite all evidence to the contrary (lying to cover for the military doing the ethnic cleansing and genocide to allow them to keep doing it, is generally not an act that helps keep the victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing alive), you have spread propaganda against the Rohingya, the very same propaganda that is being used as an excuse to drive them from Myanmar and to destroy them as a people.. And you have failed to support every single one of your claims with actual fact.

I offered my current ( today) opinion in post #172...and summed it up quite clearly.
If it imitates the propaganda you speak of then perhaps you need to ask yourself whether it is indeed propaganda?
As far as I am concerned my opinion is essentially self derived and if it happens to agree with something Aung has said then so what?


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[Quantum Quack]

Alluding to these types of threats will not help you, QQ. Far from it.

I started this thread to discuss her actions which amount to complicity to the horrors being perpetrated against the Rohingya. You decided to derail that thread and post propaganda and lies and when challenged to provide evidence to support your claims, you resort to alluding to threats and you have directly stated that if you are moderated for derailing the thread and spreading propaganda and hate speech against victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing, you will interfere with said moderation. This is not acceptable by any stretch of the imagination.

well as of post #172 I am a reformed poster...
My opinion is clearly related to the topic...and has evolved over the course of this thread, with your help too I might add.. Thank you.

What you are really saying is that alternative opinion is unacceptable... and frankly I find that uhm... unacceptable.

 

[Quantum Quack]

You seem also to fail to realize the difference between the two words"(in context) "Control" of the military and "Influence" over the military.
It is sort of like I have to guess what words you are going to jump at and what words you wont...Control is vastly different to Influence in terms of government function.
in context:

"Whilst she may not have control over the military she certainly has a degree of influence. If that influence is diminished due to attempts to poison her international standing, with out proper understanding of the situation, it is my opinion that the results could prove tragic as she provides a restraint on the military and ethnic Buddhist populations desire to eradicate ALL Rohingya and other Muslims from Myanmar."

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Also check difference between opinion and claim perhaps...