Aung San Suu Kyi.. The Fall of a Human Rights Icon..

[Quantum Quack]

Prove there is no genocide.

hee hee.. now you are being absurd...
if you wish to be taken seriously you have to do better than that.

 

[Quantum Quack]

You still don't get it... the election , her office , the democratic government is a sham...the military are still very much in control. ( if running a country in a state of constant conflict is considered as "control".)

 

[Bells]

ok .. enough... just to clarify
On what date do you believe she is or started to be guilty of genocide?

The day she was sworn in to Parliament in 2012 and started to act in a complicit manner to cover for the military in this obscene saga.

Really, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

In other words spell out your accusation including vested authority, dates, body count and material evidence...
Take the role of a court prosecutor and spit it out. be specific and lose the emotional content.
And then maybe stick to the goal posts you have established so that they can be discussed intelligently.

You literally have not read a single link I provided or read what I said. That is evident in the manner in which you have attributed things to me that I have not said and made these wild accusations and even taken to propaganda type rhetoric of Muslim nations posing a risk to the Burmese Buddhist.

Something something about your concerted effort to keep demanding more and more evidence, your failure to read and understand what has been posted and your failure to support any of your emotion laden water carrying for Aung San Suu Kyi that amounts to your repeated excuses and fall back that it's a new democracy and she was imprisoned in her home for years, applies here.

In other words, you are in absolutely no position to make any demands given your utter failure to support any of your arguments here and instead, have resorted to ridiculous conspiracies and propaganda.

Why are you avoiding the attacks on police stations in August?
and the ARNO
see post #89 In case you missed it.

I never actually did. All the links I provided discuss it explicitly.

not true..
My suggestion was to grant them statehood and perhaps offer them a future free of ongoing persecution. I expressed an idealism that the UN may evolve into being able to offer stateless persons global citizenship regardless of local , national BS.

Here was your suggestion:

The UN negotiate a 99 year lease on border land between Bangladesh and Myanmar that can facilitate the needs of 1 million or so displaced persons.
Create a negotiated safe zone immediately.
UN peace keepers to maintain safe zone security.
The safe zone would be similar to those employed in Uganda under the guidance of the UN - e.g. Bidi Bidi 250 sq kms 300,000

The reason for taking this approach is that globally the UN will be called upon more and more to facilitate sustenance for displaced persons, and a working model is much needed that can be accepted by most governments that may be called upon to allow their land to be made use of.
If Bangladesh would allow the UN to lease 300+sq kms to help facilitate a temporary safe zone and the UN staff it etc the threat of genocide will greatly diminish and the need to sanction the Myanmar with war etc would be unnecessary. Bangladesh could actually profit from such an arrangement.
As time passes and the heat drops a better more lasting solution may be found.

At no time did you mention granting them statehood or citizenship. Instead, you went on this spiel about the Burmese

My suggestion:

More like solutions..

• UN peacekeepers in the Rakhine State.
• Closing the internment camps.
• Re-instating them as citizens.
• Shutting down State media that is being used to spread propaganda against them, thereby continuing and ensuring the genocide.
• Disarming the State armed militia who were brought in to attack, kill them and drive them from their homes.
• Criminal proceedings in the ICC for the gross human rights abuses and ethnic cleansing that has been happening for all those involved, including the newly elected Government that is currently driving this latest bout of ethnic cleansing.
• Allowing aid back into the region.

This is what needs to happen immediately. Failure to employ these measures will ensure the genocide continues.

Once that happens, the next process must begin.

• New elections, with the surety that ethnic groups are represented in Government with set seats reserved for ethnic minorities from each region.
• The laws that target ethnic minorities, primarily the Muslim minority which denies them the freedom of movement, the marriage laws and policies, the 2 child policy, laws that deny them the right to healthcare, education, employment need to be struck.
• Reparations to allow them to rebuild their homes and villages.
• Reconciliation meetings and open hearings for the population to aid in reconciliation for the region.
• Monitors and observers put in place to ensure they do not go backwards.

You then went on this spiel and whine about how the Burmese do not want the Rohingya there and then came out with this:

What I suggested was that the UN leases land from the Bangladesh nation which then falls under UN jurisdiction.

A special pseudo UN state with in a state.... that would facilitate asylum even if on a short to medium term until a better more lasting solution is discovered.
Bangladesh would profit from this arrangement due to not only the rental being paid but also being needed to supply commercial services and commodities to that pseudo UN state.
This could be arranged very quickly if the right legal framework could be struck.

But it would be very important that the UN has jurisdiction over the land it leases and has unfetted access for humantitarian aid deliveries.

The Rohingya would become the worlds first UN citizens.
All stateless persons could become UN citizens thus no longer "stateless".

Sending the Rohingya back to where they are despised is simply not going to work.

You were actively advocating for their removal from their ancestral homes and lands and placing them in a sort of guarded camp and making them UN citizens (which does not even exist) and you railed against the fact that these people just want to go home and whined about how the Buddhists don't want them there and then your anti-Muslim propaganda started to enter the fray.

I need to ask, who do you think you are fooling here?

We have a similar situation on Manus island and Nauru detention camps. The way the U N can get past this is to offer all detainees UN citizenship therefore circumventing the political situation in Australia. The asylum seekers are virtually stateless.
If the UN was able to grant them asylum then problem solved.

Manus Island and the Nauru detention camps are a blight on this country and its government and have been described as a gross abuse on people's human rights, QQ and the UN has been on Australia's case because the conditions and the Australian Government's policy are consistently in breach of international law. And you tout this as a solution on a bigger scale?

I ask again, what the hell is wrong with you?

 

[Quantum Quack]

so what/who do you think I am?

( go for it, leave no stone un turned I will not hold it against you nor complain to site administration ( uhm mods)

what is the legal term.... uhm... ah yes... "with out prejudice"

 

[Bells]

so what/who do you think I am?

Here is what I said in regards to your touting the Manus Island and Nauru detention camps that the UN and human rights organisations have described as abusing people's fundamental human rights:

Manus Island and the Nauru detention camps are a blight on this country and its government and have been described as a gross abuse on people's human rights, QQ and the UN has been on Australia's case because the conditions and the Australian Government's policy are consistently in breach of international law. And you tout this as a solution on a bigger scale?

I ask again, what the hell is wrong with you?

I do not know what or who you are. I asked what was wrong with you to tout Manus Island and Nauru as a type of alternative to people facing ethnic cleansing and genocide.

( go for it, leave no stone un turned I will not hold it against you nor complain to site administration ( uhm mods)

If you want a flame war, I'd suggest you go elsewhere.

what is the legal term.... uhm... ah yes... "with out prejudice"

Ermm..

I don't think you understand what that term actually means. In other words, that doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I do not know what or who you are. I asked what was wrong with you to tout Manus Island and Nauru as a type of alternative to people facing ethnic cleansing and genocide.

what the hell are you talking about.... your above post is nonsense.
here it is again

not true..
My suggestion was to grant them statehood and perhaps offer them a future free of ongoing persecution. I expressed an idealism that the UN may evolve into being able to offer stateless persons global citizenship regardless of local , national BS.

Repeat just to be clear:
Global citizenship to deal with the stateless dilemma.

To get past this situation of repeatedly throwing the Rohingya back just so that in a few years time they can be culled all over again.

We have a similar situation on Manus island and Nauru detention camps. The way the U N can get past this is to offer all detainees UN citizenship therefore circumventing the political situation in Australia. The asylum seekers are virtually stateless.
If the UN was able to grant them asylum then problem solved.

The Bangladesh Gov could then take their case to the UN and not Myanmar.
The same could apply to the Dreamers in the USA and all illegal immigrants in Europe etc...
but as I said idealistic.. but most likely where the UN will have to go in the very near future.

At no time am I suggesting that they remain detained. I am however suggesting that the responsibility for them would fall under the UN and not Australia as they would be global citizens instead of being in asylum limbo.
Dealing with Australia's breach of International law/human rights can then be dealt with without causing further suffering to the detainees.

Focus on the victim first then deal with the perpetrator...

I entered this thread in the hope to shift the focus to the victims, immediate issues.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I don't think you understand what that term actually means. In other words, that doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

without prejudice
a phrase written on correspondence to indicate that the contents are not to be founded upon in a court, particularly as an admission of liability. It is given effect in both England and Scotland but subject to some subtle exceptions.
​

In common parlance it is often used to offer amnesty from prosecution from what is said.

​

so go for it, with out prejudice, as all you have been doing is attacking me and not the problem at hand...so I am offering you to get it off your chest, uhm spit it out, give it your best shot and hopefully later when you have lowered your emotional heat we can get some proper discussion happening.

At least though If you are going to attack me do it properly..getting your facts right sort of thingo, would go a long way...

 

[Bells]

without prejudice
a phrase written on correspondence to indicate that the contents are not to be founded upon in a court, particularly as an admission of liability. It is given effect in both England and Scotland but subject to some subtle exceptions.
In common parlance it is often used to offer amnesty from prosecution from what is said.

You still don't understand what it actually means.

I'll give you a hint.. something something about 'evidence' applies here..

so go for it, with out prejudice, as all you have been doing is attacking me and not the problem at hand...so I am offering you to get it off your chest, uhm spit it out, give it your best shot and hopefully later when you have lowered your emotional heat we can get some proper discussion happening.

At least though If you are going to attack me do it properly..getting your facts right sort of thingo, would go a long way...

As I said, if you want a flame war, go elsewhere. If you go out of your way to mock and diminish survivors of ethnic cleansing and genocide as you have done in this thread, don't whine and try and make yourself the victim when you get called out on it.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I will write one thing though in all honesty.
I have been searching for a solution to the Manus and Nauru Island problem for years. Ever since the government went all paranoid about stopping the boats and violated just about everything I knew to be Australian values.
I want to thank you Bells for provoking a solution to an incredibly vexatious issue for the Australian government and it's people.
If indeed the UN was chartered to take responsibility for the asylum seekers then the burden would be shared by all member nations and not just Australia including the asylum seekers nation of origin.

How they could do this is a detail to be worked out... but it is a solution well beyond the BS that is currently happening.
Again thanks...

 

[Quantum Quack]

If you go out of your way to mock and diminish survivors of ethnic cleansing and genocide as you have done in this thread,

someone posted about evidence... please provide links to support your accusation.
mock and diminish specifically...
or I will report you .. even if you are a mod.... ))

 

[Bells]

someone posted about evidence... please provide links to support your accusation.
mock and diminish specifically...
or I will report you .. even if you are a mod.... ))

Report away.

This is where that discussion started:

In fact those 300000+ refugees could just as easily have been slaughtered instead of being allowed to escape to Bangladesh. They may very well owe their very lives to Suu Kyi.

To which I responded with:

In fact those 300000+ refugees could just as easily have been slaughtered instead of being allowed to escape to Bangladesh. They may very well owe their very lives to Suu Kyi.

They weren't able to all be slaughtered because the were able to run for their lives. Others who weren't able to or were caught, were massacred. Pregnant women beaten to death, their newborns pulled from their bodies and stomped on, men and boys locked into houses and those houses set alight, children and babies decapitated and their bodies burnt. Others hacked to death or shot as they tried to flee. Helicopter gunships firing on them, their villages razed to the ground. Because all that wasn't enough, they then placed landmines were then placed to try to kill off those who managed to flee to the border.

A man named as Abdul Rahman, 41, said he had survived a five-hour attack on Chut Pyin village.

He told Fortifiy Rights, a charity working in the area, that a group of Rohingya men had been rounded up and detained in a bamboo hut, which was then set on fire.

"My brother was killed, [Burmese soldiers] burned him with the group,” he said.

“We found [my other family members] in the fields. They had marks on their bodies from bullets and some had cuts.

"My two nephews, their heads were off. One was six years old and the other was nine years old. My sister-in-law was shot with a gun.”

Another man from the same village, named as Sultan Ahmed, 27, told the charity: “Some people were beheaded, and many were cut. We were in the house hiding when [armed residents from a neighbouring village] were beheading people.

"When we saw that, we just ran out the back of the house.”​

Survivors from other villages in the region also described seeing people being beheaded or having their throats cut.
​

Tell me something QQ, in what reality do you exist in that you see that as "being allowed to escape"?

Which you then saw fit to respond with:

Survivors from other villages in the region also described seeing people being beheaded or having their throats cut.

gosh I saw people being disemboweled and I wasn't even there.. do you believe me?
If you don't then why not?
You seem to believe everything else....

"...and I witnessed the soldier slice her throat from ear to ear, then penetrate her full belly to extract the baby child only to swing it's corpse around his head laughing all the time. Yelling "Rohingya, dinga, Rohingya dinga"... over and over.."

Trying to shock people with exaggerated graphic detail is an old media trick... and works surprisingly well...

Not only did you directly infer that the survivors were making things up and that I was apparently believing them.. You then decided to declare that what these people were describing in a quote you pulled from who knows where, was in exaggerated graphic detail and was an "old media trick"..

Because apparently, I should not believe what the survivors are reporting? Do you think the survivors are exaggerating what they are experiencing? You dodged those questions when I initially asked them and it is pretty obvious as to why.

The irony is that you were begging for a flame war, declaring how you would not report it.. When I refused and told you that if you wanted a flame war, you should go elsewhere, you then try this tactic.

Look QQ, you aren't the first to pull this sort of rubbish. And you won't be the last. You really are very transparent and frankly, you are really bad at it.

I do not particularly care if you do not believe that this is a genocide or ethnic cleansing. But when you make such claims in the face of absolute evidence to the contrary, you are required to provide evidence to support your claims. Instead, you have kept demanding more and more evidence and then refused to read it or declared it not valid because of the dates, you even got the years of when she went into Parliament wrong, in your aim to discredit all of the reports and studies that have advised there is a genocide and ethnic cleansing taking place, while failing to acknowledge that since she entered parliament in 2012, she has done nothing whatsoever to speak up for these people, but instead, has stymied every other effort since then for the UN to investigate further. Put simply, I rather believe Yale University, Human Rights Watch, Fortify Rights, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, the UN, the ISCI than the guy who has attempted to use legal terms incorrectly and does not even know when Aung San Suu Kyi was first voted into Parliament (you couldn't even get the year right!).. You basically declared all of those reports that have been linked throughout these threads as being invalid for various reasons or tried to question their validity. For example:

Why did you post the link to an undated report by the ISCI?

When the report is copyright and dated with the year it was published:

© International State Crime Initiative 2015​

Not to mention the year it was published also appeared in the link... This has been the sort of rubbish you have been pulling throughout this thread.

If that rubbish behaviour was not enough, you also inserted propaganda into your argument by claiming that the Buddhist majority were in danger in Myanmar from Muslims and tried to prattle on about Indonesia's Muslim population and said that they could wipe the Burmese Buddhist out, not to mention ISIL in the Philippines.. Which came after your question about whether the Buddhist majority were xenophobic despite the fact that the Rohingya are Burmese, that they wanted a separatist state, and some weird comment about the Rohingya being the ones who wanted racial purity, despite the fact that they have begged to have their citizenship to Burma returned to them and it is the Burmese Buddhist who legislate to ensure their own racial purity by imposing marriage laws and whatnot on ethnic minorities like the Rohingya... I could go on and on about how you have diminished their plight and took part in victim blaming.

And I wont even touch on this gem:

At no time am I suggesting that they remain detained. I am however suggesting that the responsibility for them would fall under the UN and not Australia as they would be global citizens instead of being in asylum limbo.
Dealing with Australia's breach of International law/human rights can then be dealt with without causing further suffering to the detainees.

Focus on the victim first then deal with the perpetrator...

I entered this thread in the hope to shift the focus to the victims, immediate issues.

The people detained on Manus Island and Nauru have no freedom of movement and are literally imprisoned there. So when you tout those facilities as being examples of what the UN should establish in Bangladesh for the Rohingya after removing them all from Myanmar, you were literally suggesting they remain detained.

So ya, report away.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Pregnant women beaten to death, their newborns pulled from their bodies and stomped on, men and boys locked into houses and those houses set alight, children and babies decapitated and their bodies burnt. Others hacked to death or shot as they tried to flee. Helicopter gunships firing on them, their villages razed to the ground. Because all that wasn't enough, they then placed landmines were then placed to try to kill off those who managed to flee to the border.

Do you believe that going into such unverifiable detail is going to help your cause?
Oh don't get me wrong, there is every possibility that such atrocities and much worse have been committed.
Seeing video of internment cages faced by Rohingya refugees years ago caught by local "pirates" and how they were used to torture the men and women is enough to know what is possible in Myanmar.

and no doubt disembowelment and flaying them whilst alive, not to mention cannibalism is most likely as well...

Is there any other graphic detail you wish to use to describe your horror at what human beings are capable of?



The article if published in 2015 is obsolete when considering recent events. (needs some serious updating)

A militant group has warned of a "war" against the Myanmar Government, taking responsibility for attacks on police stations that have left more than 100 people dead.

On Friday, militants from the Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA), which claims to be fighting for the rights of Rohingya people — a Muslim minority long-persecuted by Myanmar's Buddhist majority — attacked about 25 police posts in the country's west.​

src: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-28/rohingya-militant-group-warns-of-war-against-myanmar/8850406

This attacks on police stations is credited with triggering the military back lash that has occurred thus driving the exodus out of Myanmar.

Prior to these attacks was there a rush for the border?

If that rubbish behaviour was not enough, you also inserted propaganda into your argument by claiming that the Buddhist majority were in danger in Myanmar from Muslims

As the ARSA has managed to kill numerous police officers I think I might be correct in stating that.

Myanmar is on the brink of a major conflict and you fail to see it....

rubbish.. I think not...

and tried to prattle on about Indonesia's Muslim population and said that they could wipe the Burmese Buddhist out, not to mention ISIL in the Philippines.. Which came after your question about whether the Buddhist majority were xenophobic despite the fact that the Rohingya are Burmese, that they wanted a separatist state, and some weird comment about the Rohingya being the ones who wanted racial purity, despite the fact that they have begged to have their citizenship to Burma returned to them and it is the Burmese Buddhist who legislate to ensure their own racial purity by imposing marriage laws and whatnot on ethnic minorities like the Rohingya... I could go on and on about how you have diminished their plight and took part in victim blaming.

I am not even going to attempt to unscramble your egg on the above quote...

The ARNO (reg: 1984) have stated as part of their agenda the ideal of securing a separate state under a federation.

Check your facts...

If you believe that questioning the testimony of the victim is mocking and diminishment then fine by all means.. think so..
but fact is
The ARSA did attack 25 police posts on the 28th or August 2017 and have claimed responsibility. They have performed a "terrorist act" and can be rightfully declared as a terrorist organization. Do you deny this?
They are threatening war against the Buddhist majority. Do you deny this?
In doing so they are soliciting support from all over the Muslim world to their cause. Do you deny this?

Do you understand the very real risk that this poses to the future of Myanmar?
I am sure Suu certainly does...

 

[Quantum Quack]

he people detained on Manus Island and Nauru have no freedom of movement and are literally imprisoned there. So when you tout those facilities as being examples of what the UN should establish in Bangladesh for the Rohingya after removing them all from Myanmar, you were literally suggesting they remain detained.

But I am suggesting a UN sponsored way off Manus and Nauru but your hostility prevents you from reading that.

I got to admire your passion though...

I built a web site called charter48.com a few years ago, the idea being that individual people could sign up to the UDHR and receive a certificate for doing so but due to lack of community interest I abandoned the project.. perhaps one day I shall attempt to do it again.
Maybe you would like to take the idea up...

 

[spidergoat]

The militia would consider any communication with journalists to be betrayal and react accordingly.

Why? Because they are jeopardizing their sovereignty by committing war crimes?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Why? Because they are jeopardizing their sovereignty by committing war crimes?

No , because the militia would consider it a betrayal and react accordingly. (opinion)

 

[spidergoat]

No , because the militia would consider it a betrayal and react accordingly. (opinion)

I thought Aung was a human rights icon, willing even to go to jail for what she believes. Why is she acting like she's scared of the military? I wouldn't blame her for wanting to avoid imprisonment or worse, but she has a reputation for taking a principled stand. A principled person would oppose war crimes or just resign.

 

[Bells]

Pregnant women beaten to death, their newborns pulled from their bodies and stomped on, men and boys locked into houses and those houses set alight, children and babies decapitated and their bodies burnt. Others hacked to death or shot as they tried to flee. Helicopter gunships firing on them, their villages razed to the ground. Because all that wasn't enough, they then placed landmines were then placed to try to kill off those who managed to flee to the border.

Do you believe that going into such unverifiable detail is going to help your cause?
Oh don't get me wrong, there is every possibility that such atrocities and much worse have been committed.
Seeing video of internment cages faced by Rohingya refugees years ago caught by local "pirates" and how they were used to torture the men and women is enough to know what is possible in Myanmar.

and no doubt disembowelment and flaying them whilst alive, not to mention cannibalism is most likely as well...

Is there any other graphic detail you wish to use to describe your horror at what human beings are capable of?

You do understand that that was in response to your ridiculous claims that they were being "allowed to escape", yes? Because suffering through such atrocities does not equal or amount to "being allowed to escape", hence this vital sentence in that post in response to your ridiculous claim that they were being "allowed to escape" and worse still, that they may owe their lives to Aung San Suu Kyi:

Tell me something QQ, in what reality do you exist in that you see that as "being allowed to escape"?​

How many other ways are you going to try to change the subject and twist yourself into a pretzel?

Oh wait, here we go..

The article if published in 2015 is obsolete when considering recent events. (needs some serious updating)

This attacks on police stations is credited with triggering the military back lash that has occurred thus driving the exodus out of Myanmar.

Prior to these attacks was there a rush for the border?

Welp.. This is getting even more ridiculous!

Did you not read anything that I have said or posted?

In October of 2012, the Myanmar military, police force, local militia groups and local Buddhists (and the many who were bused in) attacked various Rohingya villages and committed a massacre. Over 120,000 Rohingya fled Myanmar and the exodus because of the ethnic cleansing has been ongoing since that date. What you are reading about currently (and obviously the words you have been reading 'do not compute') is an escalation of the ethnic cleansing and genocide that has been ongoing for years.

Aung San Suu Kyi became a member of Parliament in Burma in May of 2012.

As the ARSA has managed to kill numerous police officers I think I might be correct in stating that.

Myanmar is on the brink of a major conflict and you fail to see it....

rubbish.. I think not...

The ARSA formed in response to the massacres that began in 2012 and their target was the police.. Not civilians. The Burmese military responded with ethnic cleansing of civilians and razing everything to the ground.

And on the brink?

Frankly, the ignorance you espouse in this thread is cringe worthy.

It's not on the brink. We are now at the full blown genocide and ethnic cleansing stage. You are carrying on as though this just started.

The ARNO (reg: 1984) have stated as part of their agenda the ideal of securing a separate state under a federation.

Check your facts...

The first sentence of their aims, goals and ideology:

The right of self-determination of the Rohingya people must be given within a Burmese federation​

The rest of it then follows:

preservation of their (Rohingya’s) history and cultural heritage without prejudice to the growth and preservation of other religious and indigenous culture in Arakan; condemnation of religious persecution by the military; repatriation of Rohingya refugees from their places of refuge; human resource development particularly in socio-cultural, economic, educational and technical fields; establishment of a welfare society based on equality, liberty, democracy, human rights and freedom for all peoples; “peaceful co-existence” with Rakhine community (Buddhist of Arakan) and among all other peoples in Arakan as well as in the whole of the country; joint struggle with the Burmese opposition and democratic forces; support to landmine ban treaty; support of the rights of Rohingya women and girls to education, health and economic empowerment; educating the youths of the dangers of drugs (including AIDS infection); protection of environment, including forests, rivers, wetland, Coastline Ocean and to save their land from unsustainable logging, killing of endangered species, all forms of pollution, and over fishing and to preserve a green haven for their children and the world; support for future sustainable, appropriate, clean, and beneficial development to the common people.”​

Can you please link where they have stated that "their agenda is securing a separate state under a federation"?

Or is this another case of you not understanding terminology, such as "right to self determination" means in regards to the law and human rights?

Do you think "self determination" means "securing a separate state"?

If you believe that questioning the testimony of the victim is mocking and diminishment then fine by all means.. think so..
but fact is
The ARSA did attack 25 police posts on the 28th or August 2017 and have claimed responsibility. They have performed a "terrorist act" and can be rightfully declared as a terrorist organization. Do you deny this?
They are threatening war against the Buddhist majority. Do you deny this?

They aren't threatening war..

They are fighting back after decades of oppression and massacres, ethnic cleansing and genocide and they attacked the organisation that took part in said massacres, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Are they correct to do so? I don't know. Frankly, if someone burnt my village, hacked up my family, I might consider picking up sticks and stones and fighting back, which is essentially what they did.

In doing so they are soliciting support from all over the Muslim world to their cause. Do you deny this?

Do you understand the very real risk that this poses to the future of Myanmar?

Oh look, more Islamophobic propaganda.

 

[Bells]

But I am suggesting a UN sponsored way off Manus and Nauru but your hostility prevents you from reading that.

You suggested the UN leased land from Bangladesh, remove the Rohingya out of Myanmar and put them in a "camp" of some sort on leased land from Bangladesh, made them UN citizens (which does not even exist) and then compared it to Australia's deal with Nauru and co.

I built a web site called charter48.com a few years ago, the idea being that individual people could sign up to the UDHR and receive a certificate for doing so but due to lack of community interest I abandoned the project.. perhaps one day I shall attempt to do it again.

The lack of interest would probably have been because people do not and cannot "sign up to the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights". It isn't a club.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I thought Aung was a human rights icon, willing even to go to jail for what she believes. Why is she acting like she's scared of the military? I wouldn't blame her for wanting to avoid imprisonment or worse, but she has a reputation for taking a principled stand. A principled person would oppose war crimes or just resign.

Good question... a principled person would unless they are being manipulated using extreme means.

ie. holding a couple of hundred civilians prisoner at gun point...with the threat of execution if Aung doesn't do as she is told. **

I very strongly believe that Aung and her Government have no control over the military, and that she is remaining in her position to do the best she can under the circumstances. Prepared to sacrifice reputation for the greater good...

**Note to Bells... please see the ie. abrev. it states that the above is only an example of what MAY be happening not what IS happening.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Oh look, more Islamophobic propaganda.

You know Bells by the over using of these buzz words and phrases you destroy their importance and value.
You are accusing me of Islamophobia way too casually...
I currently live with an Iranian asylum seeker, sharing a two bedroom flat.