Athiesm, Punishment and Killing

[S.A.M.]

According to some atheists on this forum, religion should not have ANY decree on murder or killing under any circumstances, as this proscribes capital punishment and/or provides justification for killing. Some also disagree with the notion of forgiveness/compensation of crime as an alternative to punishment, while agreeing that prisons are full of innocent but convicted people.

However, if we look at societies under atheist rulers, they are replete with murder and torture.

So, in the absence of scriptures and religion, what is the atheists inspiration for murder? What is the "rational" approach to punishment?

 

[(Q)]

According to some atheists on this forum, religion should not have ANY decree on murder or killing under any circumstances, as this proscribes capital punishment and/or provides justification for killing.

And most importantly, it can be abused, which has become self-evident.

Some also disagree with the notion of forgiveness/compensation of crime as an alternative to punishment, while agreeing that prisons are full of innocent but convicted people.

You are either lying or have misunderstood.

However, if we look at societies under atheist rulers, they are replete with murder and torture.

Unsubstantiated drivel.

 

[S.A.M.]

Feel free to expound on the rational basis for punishment and killing, one which cannot be "abused"

 

[Syzygys]

I am gonna treat your thread on the philosophical level, and not on practicality.

However, if we look at societies under atheist rulers, they are replete with murder and torture.

Well, first mistake you compare atheists here with atheist rules. They might be similar but they could be very different. The fact is that we just don't know. The point is that you can not get to a conclusion in the comparison.

So, in the absence of scriptures and religion, what is the atheists inspiration for murder? What is the "rational" approach to punishment?

I said I am not going to treat this on the practicality, so BLOOD....

Seriously, inspiration? Justice sounds good to me. The rational approach is or should be the same as with employment. For equal work, equal salary...

 

[SnakeLord]

However, if we look at societies under atheist rulers, they are replete with murder and torture.

Where? Do you mean communist rulers?

What is the "rational" approach to punishment?

If you are a threat to the safety of other people then you should be put in a place safe to both you and them until such time that you are no longer a threat to their safety.

 

[S.A.M.]

Where? Do you mean communist rulers?

No I mean atheist rulers.

If you are a threat to the safety of other people then you should be put in a place safe to both you and them until such time that you are no longer a threat to their safety.

Hmm I actually approve of this, can we use this for people who prey on the poor, disenfranchised and unarmed? But wait, then who will implement it?

 

[spidergoat]

Atheism is not a moral code, it's just someone who doesn't believe in God. Among societies under rulers that call themselves religious- the vast majority of rulers in the world past and present, there is much torture and murder. Atheism doesn't prevent anything except religious or faith based reasons for such actions.

I don't hold atheism up as a complete moral system, you have to come up with one yourself.

Murder is self-evidently bad for society. I happen to be against capital punishment, but not all atheists are. I happen to be against torture, but not all atheists are. I happen to think people that prey on the poor, etc. are wrong and should be punished, but not all atheists do. I think much more could be done in the way of rehibilitation and treatment for drug problems that isn't being done in our prisons, but as before, not all atheists think alike.

Atheism doesn't hold your hand and think for you, like religion. It takes some initiative, insight, and creativity to invent solutions for modern issues. Killing is certainly justified under some circumstances.

 

[S.A.M.]

Atheism is not a moral code, it's just someone who doesn't believe in God. Among societies under rulers that call themselves religious- the vast majority of rulers in the world past and present, there is much torture and murder. Atheism doesn't prevent anything except religious or faith based reasons for such actions.

I don't hold atheism up as a complete moral system, you have to come up with one yourself.

Murder is self-evidently bad for society. I happen to be against capital punishment, but not all atheists are. I happen to be against torture, but not all atheists are. I happen to think people that prey on the poor, etc. are wrong and should be punished, but not all atheists do. I think much more could be done in the way of rehibilitation and treatment for drug problems that isn't being done in our prisons, but as before, not all atheists think alike.

Atheism doesn't hold your hand and think for you, like religion. It takes some initiative, insight, and creativity to invent solutions for modern issues.

So basically, in your opinion, the solution is majority rules except under a dictatorship.

So if you stayed in a society where the majority opinion was against your values, what would be your position in this society?

 

[Syzygys]

Murder is self-evidently bad for society.

It does help with overpopulation and sometimes bad people got killed too...

 

[spidergoat]

So basically, in your opinion, the solution is majority rules except under a dictatorship.

So if you stayed in a society where the majority opinion was against your values, what would be your position in this society?

I find Democracy to be a good solution to governing a society. If the majority opinion was against my values, I would work as a minority to change those values. This happened with respect to civil rights, womens rights, gay rights. As long as I could see some progress, I guess I could live with it.

 

[S.A.M.]

I find Democracy to be a good solution to governing a society. If the majority opinion was against my values, I would work as a minority to change those values. This happened with respect to civil rights, womens rights, gay rights. As long as I could see some progress, I guess I could live with it.

Thats your solution. Some other athiest may prefer to be the dictator, in his view eliminating all opposition is the logical rational step.

 

[spidergoat]

Quite so. What form of governing does religion endorse? Monarchy?

 

[S.A.M.]

Quite so. What form of governing does religion endorse? Monarchy?

Religion does not really endorse a form of government. But it does emphasise social justice towards the disadvantaged. It is why religious societies that understand this equation persist for so long (even monarchies) as compared to areligious systems with short cycles that degenerate before reverting to religion.

 

[geeser]

No I mean atheist rulers.

why do you say Atheist when you actually mean Communist and anti-theistic rulers, thanks for the link, thats clarified it.

 

[S.A.M.]

why do you say Atheist when you actually mean Communist rulers, thanks for the link, thats clarified it.

You're free to provide links to athiest rulers who are not into killing and torture. I consider anti-religion rulers promoting godlessness to be atheist.

 

[scorpius]

No I mean atheist rulers.

theres no "atheist rulers" anywhere today I know of,every secular country is a Democracy as far as I can tell,
Ruler is someone like Fidel Castro, Iran's Ahmadejinad
or Kim whatsisname of N Korea!

and even in old Russia there wasnt any atheist rulers
it was a simple dictatorship,attempt at Utopia which failed b/c most people are greedy.

Stalin btw was raised Russian Orthodox and being the ambitious greedy sob he
obviously didnt need churches who can expertly manipulate and control people as a competition to his plan,which was to make Russia the Great Empire.

Myths about communism & atheism

http://www.nobeliefs.com/facts.htm#anchor199422

Article 34 of the 1977 Constitution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics states that,

"Citizens of the USSR are equal before the law, without distinction of origin, social or property status, race or nationality, sex, education, language, attitude to religion, type and nature of occupation, domicile, or other status."

 

[scorpius]

So, in the absence of scriptures and religion, what is the atheists inspiration for murder? What is the "rational" approach to punishment?

rational is first using the words in proper context without trying to use the double talk,like you always do,are you studying to be an attorney by any chance??

atheists inspiration for murder?? wtf

there a big difference between Murder and Justifiable killing,
and you know it.

is it more humane to let some insane serial killer who's convicted and guilty beyond reasonable doubt to sit in the cage for the rest of his/her life or just to put them to sleep?
my choice would be to let the victims or relatives of those at them and punish them the way they see fit.
fortunately we are civilized enough not to.

 

[S.A.M.]

theres no "atheist rulers" anywhere today I know of,every secular country is a Democracy as far as I can tell,
Ruler is someone like Fidel Castro, Iran's Ahmadejinad
or Kim whatsisname of N Korea!

I was referring to the anti-religion rulers promoting godlessness.

 

[Syzygys]

This thread is pretty stupid, because it start with an unsustained assumption that killing is bad....Care to make a case for it first???

 

[lightgigantic]

This thread is pretty stupid, because it start with an unsustained assumption that killing is bad....Care to make a case for it first???

Ok

If today we all decided we are going to kill you, not really because of anything you have done, just something random - would this be a bit of a downer to your day?