Atheism Adam's way

[Adam]

Ah well, I have a little spare time, so I'm going to waste it clarifying something. I have seen sciforums users many times say these things:
- Atheism is not believing in god.
- Atheism is a rejection of god.
- Atheists here are focused on christianity.
- Atheists reject all things supernatural/spiritual.

These things are brought up again and again like the tastiest cud, yet are simple tiresome rubbish.

Atheism is by definition not believing or following any religion. To me, this means I do not follow buddhism, islam, christianity, shinto, wicca, or anything else like that. I do not focus on any one particular religion. If I mention atheism in connection with christianity more than in connection with other religions, that is simply because two out of three topics in the Religion forum are about christianity. If they were about shinto, my posts might contain material connecting atheism with shinto.

Atheism is not a rejection of god/buddha/allah/tree-spirits, or anything else. An act of rejection requires an initial acceptance that there is something to reject. Since no such initial acceptance has been made, there can be no rejection. However, I do realise that in many places where religion is more common, some people do actively make atheism an act of rejection against whatever religion is common there.

I do not reject all things supernatural or paranormal or whatever. I suspect there is more to us all than meat, but I have no reason to accept such. I would not be terribly surprised if we have spirits or whatever; but then, I would not be surprised if we don't. All such things are in my Undecided tray.

Is it a problem leaving so many matters in my Undecided tray? Not really. These are things which basically have no effect on my life at all. Life and me get along just fine the way things are.

 

[ismu]

Why do you become atheist?

Do you care of your own life?
What is the main target in your life? Death? Are you realize the meaning of your life?

What is your guidance through your life?
What do you believe?
Science, law, government, your brain, others people brain? Are you sophisticated? Are they sophisticated?

Do you care on what is right or wrong according to your life?
If you say yes, What you gonna use to judge something right or wrong?
Again: science, law, government, your brain, others people brain? Are you sophisticated? Are they sophisticated? Are you/they got consistent values?

What if there is an offer to solve those anwers that very make sense? Which many people believe it, but there is "God" in this offer?
Will you take it?

 

[Adam]

Why did I become an atheist? I didn't. I was born one. Religion is learnt behaviour, not inborn. My family has no religion at all, I was raised entirely without it.

Do I care for my own life? Sure do.

What is the main target of my life? What is the meaning of life? No idea. I'm still trying to figure it out.

What is your guidance through your life?
What do you believe?
Science, law, government, your brain, others people brain? Are you sophisticated? Are they sophisticated?

My guidance is my conscience, my ability to rationalise things, et cetera. I need no threat of eternity in hell or promise of eternal reward to get me to do what I consider the right thing. I see myself as superior to someone who only does the right thing because they fear the consequences of doing otherwise. I need no reason or excuse.

What do I believe? All sorts of things. I believe people are good and bad, and I believe in possibilities and probabilities. I beileve in justice more than law. I do not believe "revenge" is a dirty word.

Science, law, government, my brain? I believe law exists, but it's mostly a bad idea overall. For now we need it simply because people need the threat of consequences to keep them in line. But I would much prefer it if people could be civil to each other because they want to. Science? Yes. Science is not a thing to believe in, it is the human endeavour to understand the universe. I believe in the value of we humans trying to understand the universe. Government? See my opinion of law. But I guess government is required to run state assets, even if we can ever get rid of nations and be civil to each other. My brain? I believe it's quite a good brain, but no, it doesn't hold all the answers yet. Am I sophisticated? That depends what you mean by sophisticated.

Do you care on what is right or wrong according to your life?
If you say yes, What you gonna use to judge something right or wrong?
Again: science, law, government, your brain, others people brain? Are you sophisticated? Are they sophisticated? Are you/they got consistent values?

I care what is right or wrong, but I'm well aware that what I consider right and wrong may be very different to what other people consider right and wrong. I'd say my values and ethics and all are mostly consistent, yet I maintain the ability to change them if new information is encountered which affects them.

What if there is an offer to solve those anwers that very make sense? Which many people believe it, but there is "God" in this offer?
Will you take it?

Well, to me, you might as well be saying "The sock-stealing aliens have all the answers and you can live a better life if you just heed their words". A myth is a myth. Maybe the stories have good examples of how to behave in a civilised manner, maybe they don't. If they do, I may take those examples into consideration.

 

[FoxMulder]

You're in trouble, save yourself!

Don't you read my posts? I said in another thread, all this atheism and acceptance of hellish creatures and such into popular culture is not an accident! Hellraiser, Freddy Krueger, Buffy, a demand for evidence of God while wishing vampires were real?! Don't you think that's a bit odd?

Look, people may all have different ideas about the nature of God and of Good and Evil, but the theme is common throughout all such different beliefs. Go to your local church, and listen to the priest there. Listen not to his words, but to his meaning.

 

[Adam]

You're so right!

FoxMulder, you're right! What have I been thinking?! I'll run down to the local church right now and change my life! Thanks buddy! You've saved me!

In case you don't understand, I'm being silly. I think you should renew your prescription.

I'm sure your beliefs are just fine and dandy, but I started this thread to discuss my brand of atheism. Perhaps you could start a thread about your own beliefs.

 

[ismu]

Adam

Why did I become an atheist? I didn't. I was born one. Religion is learnt behaviour, not inborn. My family has no religion at all, I was raised entirely without it.

You're seems prefer to follow your family tradition rather than search any possibilities you can choose.

Do I care for my own life? Sure do.
What is the main target of my life? What is the meaning of life? No idea. I'm still trying to figure it out.

How long do you think you gonna figure it out by yourself without good giudance? Isn't that not too late then?

My guidance is my conscience, my ability to rationalise things, et cetera. I need no threat of eternity in hell or promise of eternal reward to get me to do what I consider the right thing. I see myself as superior to someone who only does the right thing because they fear the consequences of doing otherwise. I need no reason or excuse.

Sounds arrogant and ignorant to me. Leads you to become closed minded. Close minded leads to nothing.

What do I believe? All sorts of things. I believe people are good and bad, and I believe in possibilities and probabilities. I beileve in justice more than law. I do not believe "revenge" is a dirty word.

Science, law, government, my brain? I believe law exists, but it's mostly a bad idea overall. For now we need it simply because people need the threat of consequences to keep them in line. But I would much prefer it if people could be civil to each other because they want to. Science? Yes. Science is not a thing to believe in, it is the human endeavour to understand the universe. I believe in the value of we humans trying to understand the universe. Government? See my opinion of law. But I guess government is required to run state assets, even if we can ever get rid of nations and be civil to each other. My brain? I believe it's quite a good brain, but no, it doesn't hold all the answers yet. Am I sophisticated? That depends what you mean by sophisticated.

Are you believe you're (and human endeavour to understand the universe) sophisticated enough to find ultimate guidance to everybody's life? History shows that people ALWAYS makes mistakes. Is it good enough for to hold on? Do you really not intend to find faster solution?

I care what is right or wrong, but I'm well aware that what I consider right and wrong may be very different to what other people consider right and wrong. I'd say my values and ethics and all are mostly consistent, yet I maintain the ability to change them if new information is encountered which affects them.

You see, right or wrong are seems very relative. It seems change along ages and seem difference in everyone 's point of view. This can mess up the whole world because there is no standard law to justify what is right and wrong. We always search for absolute truth. Human, all people in the world working together unable to make this, an absolute rule that can applied right in ceturies. We need it from "something" better than human.

God already gave it. But some people prefer to close their eyes and ears. They prefer to find it in their head, blind and deft.

Well, to me, you might as well be saying "The sock-stealing aliens have all the answers and you can live a better life if you just heed their words". A myth is a myth. Maybe the stories have good examples of how to behave in a civilised manner, maybe they don't. If they do, I may take those examples into consideration.

That's not my offer. My offer is: "Look there is a book, I know that is a good book. I have read it yet. Learn it. Compare it with all of other references you know. Sense it with your heart. Proove it, is it right or wrong according to highest science available, any logical you think it make sense. I will also warn you that some part of the book takes more time to understand. And then you free to dump it, or take it as your life handbook". It is Qur'an my friend.

 

[SpyFox_the_KMeson]

You're seems prefer to follow your family tradition rather than search any possibilities you can choose.

So you're saying that he is wrong because he is simply following family tradition? He is wrong because he actively chose not to change? Sounds like a pretty weak argument to me, and unnecessary too. You're just squeezing this in to make him seem wrong, the fact that he follows his parents' beliefs is completely irrelevant as long as he made the decision on his own.

How long do you think you gonna figure it out by yourself without good giudance? Isn't that not too late then?

I don't know about you, but I don't need a mythical figure to guide me through life, just the same as I don't need a magic lantern to guide me when I'm driving on the highway. I just do it myself.

Sounds arrogant and ignorant to me. Leads you to become closed minded. Close minded leads to nothing.

Wait wait wait. You're saying he's arrogant because he <b>doesn't</b> need the threat of eternal hell to keep him in line? I respect someone who can make the right decision on their own accord, because it benefits everyone. I don't respect someone who makes the right decision because they're afraid of burning in hell forever if they don't. That's not intelligence, that's fear.

Are you believe you're (and human endeavour to understand the universe) sophisticated enough to find ultimate guidance to everybody's life? History shows that people ALWAYS makes mistakes. Is it good enough for to hold on? Do you really not intend to find faster solution?

This whole thing is getting rather off topic. The subject was atheism, not government. You also assume here that everyone's final goal is "ultimate guidance." It isn't. My personal final goal is to discover how the universe works at a most basic level.

You see, right or wrong are seems very relative. It seems change along ages and seem difference in everyone 's point of view. This can mess up the whole world because there is no standard law to justify what is right and wrong. We always search for absolute truth. Human, all people in the world working together unable to make this, an absolute rule that can applied right in ceturies. We need it from "something" better than human.

God already gave it. But some people prefer to close their eyes and ears. They prefer to find it in their head, blind and deft.

A. Why is it necessarily bad that right and wrong change over time? Why do we <b>need</b> a standard law? Will we all die without it? Will society spontaneously implode on itself? And don't tell me that it will lead to the end of civilized society or some unjustified crap like that.
B. Why is <b>your</b> god's guidance better than, say, Buddha's? Why not some alaskan fish god? Or the Roman Gods? Or the great cheese wibble? Or Neutrino Albatross? (BTW, Neutrino proved irrefutably that he was god in another post, so nya! )

 

[Adam]

Ismu

You're seems prefer to follow your family tradition rather than search any possibilities you can choose.

My family "tradition", to use your term, is to learn for yourself rather than accept anyone else's truth. As I grew and learnt I studied religions as well as many other things. I never found anything in any religion which would make that religion of particular interest to me, certainly not enough to base my life around it.

How long do you think you gonna figure it out by yourself without good giudance? Isn't that not too late then?

I really don't have any expectation of figuring out the meaning of life. I would rather die with questions than answers.

Sounds arrogant and ignorant to me. Leads you to become closed minded. Close minded leads to nothing.

It is close-minded to have a conscience rather than live by rules dictated by someone else? I disagree. You seem to be saying one should accept the ethics written in a religious text, rather than think about things. Simple acceptance like that, to me, is close-minded.

Are you believe you're (and human endeavour to understand the universe) sophisticated enough to find ultimate guidance to everybody's life? History shows that people ALWAYS makes mistakes. Is it good enough for to hold on? Do you really not intend to find faster solution?

No, I don't presume to think that I can figure out the goal or meaning of each individual's life. I suspect the meaning of life is different for each individual. Yep, people make mistakes, as you say. Perhaps you are making a mistake by paying attention to your bible? No, I do not intend to find a fast solution to the meaning of life. Again, I'd rather die with questions than answers.

You see, right or wrong are seems very relative. It seems change along ages and seem difference in everyone 's point of view. This can mess up the whole world because there is no standard law to justify what is right and wrong. We always search for absolute truth. Human, all people in the world working together unable to make this, an absolute rule that can applied right in ceturies. We need it from "something" better than human.

I think there are some basic standards of law which should be applied in all nations, for all people. Such as "Don't use violence except in defence". Apart from such basic rules, everyone should be free to deal with life in their own way.

My offer is: "Look there is a book, I know that is a good book. I have read it yet. Learn it. Compare it with all of other references you know. Sense it with your heart. Proove it, is it right or wrong according to highest science available, any logical you think it make sense. I will also warn you that some part of the book takes more time to understand. And then you free to dump it, or take it as your life handbook".

I read a little of the Qur'an, and found it about as valuable to me as any other religious text. A few good ideas, a few bad ideas, and lots of fairy tales. Prove it? No thanks. I have no need or desire to do so. If you wish to have it accepted as some kind of Truth, it is up to you to prove it.

 

[ismu]

SpyFox_the_KMeson...

Hmm... another one who refuse to think deeper and logical, and use emotion to think.

We're talking about atheism. We can't avoid to talk about religion. My goal is to manage my life better. And my religion helps me do it. It also manage social relationship better.

 

[Adam]

I'm aware that for many people, living by the rules written in religious texts helps them get by in life. However, I think it is dangerous to live your life according to rules writtne down in some book. Why? Look through religious texts. They often contain passages about slaughtering non-believers and such. Anyway, why would I want to live by rules made up by some author centuries ago? I'd much rather figure things out for myself.

You have claimed I am illogical and without emotion beacuse I don't simply accept what is written in some book without reason. That is an illogical assertion. There is no rationale behind it, at least none that you have provided.

 

[ismu]

Re: Ismu

Originally posted by Adam

My family "tradition", to use your term, is to learn for yourself rather than accept anyone else's truth. As I grew and learnt I studied religions as well as many other things. I never found anything in any religion which would make that religion of particular interest to me, certainly not enough to base my life around it.

I really don't have any expectation of figuring out the meaning of life. I would rather die with questions than answers.

It is close-minded to have a conscience rather than live by rules dictated by someone else? I disagree. You seem to be saying one should accept the ethics written in a religious text, rather than think about things. Simple acceptance like that, to me, is close-minded.

So... that's the way you think. I think the book I mentioned is right for you. Islam let us free their mind. You free to analyse what it says. You can decide what to do. It not dictate me, it only show me to see from another point of view. I decide what I do.

No, I don't presume to think that I can figure out the goal or meaning of each individual's life. I suspect the meaning of life is different for each individual.

Couriousity leads our science. Don't you courious WHY we live on earth? What i'st purposes? This is what I meant by meaning of life.

Of course each of us have individual goals. But it only for short terms, until we death. But that's not my point here.

Yep, people make mistakes, as you say. Perhaps you are making a mistake by paying attention to your bible? No, I do not intend to find a fast solution to the meaning of life. Again, I'd rather die with questions than answers.

I think there are some basic standards of law which should be applied in all nations, for all people. Such as "Don't use violence except in defence". Apart from such basic rules, everyone should be free to deal with life in their own way.

Are you human find those basic standards? Take a look at history. Those standard mostly inspired by religions.

I read a little of the Qur'an, and found it about as valuable to me as any other religious text. A few good ideas, a few bad ideas, and lots of fairy tales. Prove it? No thanks. I have no need or desire to do so. If you wish to have it accepted as some kind of Truth, it is up to you to prove it.
Read it more in open minded. Some of it give us some clue to science, emotional management, health, social relationship, etc.

I think I'm done with you here. I only show you a book. Yes indeed, we're free to decide what to do.

 

[Xev]

Hey Adamski. Thanks!

- Atheism is not believing in god.
- Atheism is a rejection of god.
- Atheists here are focused on christianity.
- Atheists reject all things supernatural/spiritual

Thanks Adamski! As you say, they're wrong. We don't just diss Christianity. Adamski disses Wicca, and I diss $cientology. I have a bit of respect for Islam and Judaism - although I will make fun of the dietary laws....*

In any case, I think Christianity has many good points as well. I'm not really anti-religion.

*God dosen't want people to eat bat or wear linen/wool garments.

Ismu:

Hmm... another one who refuse to think deeper and logical, and use emotion to think.[/qutoe]

Belief in God is illogical on its face. You're one to talk!

Why do you become atheist?

I realized that believing in God was irrational.

Do you care of your own life?
What is the main target in your life? Death? Are you realize the meaning of your life?

Yes, I am like Dr.Reuix in 'The Plauge'. I know that what I do dosen't really matter, but I do it anyway.

What is your guidance through your life?

Myself. My reason, my emotions. I ask my friends for advice somtimes, but I'm the only person I can count on.

What do you believe?
Science, law, government, your brain, others people brain? Are you sophisticated? Are they sophisticated?

Democracy, humanity, doing the right thing.

Again: science, law, government, your brain, others people brain? Are you sophisticated? Are they sophisticated?

Not horridly.

Do you care on what is right or wrong according to your life?
If you say yes, What you gonna use to judge something right or you/they got consistent values?

Yes. My reason, my emotions, my conscience.

What if there is an offer to solve those anwers that very make sense? Which many people believe it, but there is "God" in this offer?
Will you take it?

It's irrational. It has lead to the deaths of millions.

 

[Markx]

Interesting Debate.

I am not going to take sides, even thou I am Muslim now. I understand totally what Adam is saying and where he is coming from and ISMU I know exactly what you mean too.

Adam, I think what ISMU is trying to say and I noticed that too when I read Quran, when you read any other religious book and I haven't read Buddhism yet, but three of the worlds monotheistic religions, I didn't notice free will in any of them but in Quran. Few points I like to mention, in over all meaning of Quran it is combination of every thing, warning, free will, guidance, rules and regulations, certain guide lines of living etc etc. Now believe me or not I have met many atheist and I have been through this phase of life my self but most of them if not all are already doing what Islam teaches. Now if you like to call them personal ideas that's fine but they are mention in this religion.
First thing that I notice is non of them believe in Christian God for very obvious reasons that Muslims don't believe in Christian God however the God in bible or torah is suppose to be same as in Quran. Some of them believe in Higher power if that exists but they can't imagine a shape or form, it could be ball of light or it could be some sort of force but no portrait. Like almost all the religions have their own portrait of God. Not in Islam. No blonde hair Jesus, no six armed Kali etc etc.
Also things you refer to fairy tales, not sure what are you referring to. Since we weren't there so can't prove them if they did happened or not. But if you are talking about proof in general I am sure we can talk about many. So to sum it all up, I am just saying that Quran has more logic then any other religion that I have read and it offers more free will. Give us open option either take the guidance and walk away. It even mentions that if one believe only in God or higher power, that's the direct dealing between him and that person. He is not going to hell or even if he will that is up to God no one can walk to him and tell him that if he doesn't believe in this and that then he will be burn in hell. I hope you get the idea what I am trying to say.

ISMU,
Good to see you too. I am not sure if you are right saying that Adam's remarks were arrogant or ignorant, they are merely his thoughts and that's how he feels. That's his free will and thinking. A gift of God for humans, That's what makes us different then animals ( and off course all the horrible things we do as humans too ) If you remember humans were called Ashraf ul Muhkhloqat. There is a reason for that. Believe me atheist are better then lot at least they question the sole existence rather then taking every thing as granted. In some ways they can be close minded, so do we all are some ways or another. And that
s where the Quran comes in picture, since it asked every one to question and seek knowledge of what we are, why we are and who we are etc etc. Mysteries of universe and all that. That's why it is called Al-Kitab ( The book ) and Al-Furqan, The Knowledge. I can only hope that people would read it with open mind and see for them self. Since no one came to my door to accept Islam or scared me to death that I will burn in hell, I accept it by my own, Because I question.

Anyways guys I may not make sense to some but I just tried to give my thoughts.

Peace

 

[FoxMulder]

Why won't people listen???

Why don't you pay attention? I've told you, I've told everyone! Life is transitory, but the important part of us goes on. These thigns you can see, you can hold in your very hands! If you could only see what I have seen. Those books weren't just accidents you know. The Koran, the Bible, and so on, they aren't just Barbara Cartland novels; they're guidebooks on how to save your life, your soul, and all humanity!

 

[Tyler]

Nelson, if you're reading this, you better realize FoxMulder is DEFINETLY not someone to say is your best ally.

'Why won't you people listen?'

Well I'm sorry FoxMulder. It's just that when I was 2 years old I learnt not to believe everything everyone told me without thinking for myself. I guess I had bad parents.



"Couriousity leads our science. Don't you courious WHY we live on earth? What i'st purposes? This is what I meant by meaning of life.

Of course each of us have individual goals. But it only for short terms, until we death. But that's not my point here."

I cannot prove this, and don't intend to try, but your comment there shows circumstancial evidence on my theory on how religion began. The fact is, Ismu, I do not need a reason to live. I can accept the fact that there is higher meaning for life. You, like most religious people, have a weakness in you that makes you desire a meaning for life. I say it is a weakness because it means that you cannot rely on reality and the thought that we don't have a meaning and need some higher being to validate your life; while I and other atheists (though not all) are fully able to accept that life has no 'meaning'.



"Are you human find those basic standards? Take a look at history. Those standard mostly inspired by religions."

Don't use violence is inspired by religion? Excuse me for rolling on the floor laughing.



"You're seems prefer to follow your family tradition rather than search any possibilities you can choose."

And this DOESN'T sound like religious people to you? A large percent of Americans are Christian. Go up to some and ask them if their parents were. An overwhelming majority of Afghans are Moslem. Go ask them if their parents were. A huge majority of people in Israel are Jewish. Go ask them if their parents were. (want me to go on?)




"How long do you think you gonna figure it out by yourself without good giudance? Isn't that not too late then?"

You need a short, easy way out. I don't. Simple.




"Are you believe you're (and human endeavour to understand the universe) sophisticated enough to find ultimate guidance to everybody's life? History shows that people ALWAYS makes mistakes. Is it good enough for to hold on? Do you really not intend to find faster solution?"

Thank you for proving my point about theists. You guys tend to (not always) be just people who can't cope with life on your own and need some ultimate being to lead you along. All I need is myself.




"God already gave it. But some people prefer to close their eyes and ears. They prefer to find it in their head, blind and deft."

There's Sooooooooooooooooooo much debate between theists over what their religions mean. And how do you choose the right one? Surely Christians won't lay down their religion and let Islam take over. And I doubt Jews will just forget their religion and traditions and accept Jesus, right?



"That's not my offer. My offer is: "Look there is a book, I know that is a good book. I have read it yet. Learn it. Compare it with all of other references you know. Sense it with your heart. Proove it, is it right or wrong according to highest science available, any logical you think it make sense. I will also warn you that some part of the book takes more time to understand. And then you free to dump it, or take it as your life handbook". It is Qur'an my friend."

Most of us have read the Qu'ran and the Bible and Torah and Buddhist and Taoist texts and such.

 

[Markx]

Not to offend any one here but Tyler, when you say most of people have read all the holy books. My question is are you talking about just looking at few verses from each book? or Internet search of certain things you want to know or you are talking about reading and understand the full book?. I don't think you can make much out of anything if we read only certain parts and miss others. I can say that for me since I read old, new testaments and Quran. However I haven't finish the full Quranic interpretation or details, still learning.

 

[Tyler]

I mean reading the full books.

Myself I haven't read a ton of Tao and I need more on Budhism, but the Old Testament, New Testament and Qu'ran I have read. The Qu'ran, interestingly enough, I started reading about a month before Sept 11th, so I had enough rebutals to all the morons who jumped on the Islam Is Evil bandwagon. I started debating religion a couple years ago and so I felt I needed to actually have some back-reading before I started claiming atheism and argueing my side. And I think a lot of the people here have done the same thing, or more than, I have done.

 

[SpyFox_the_KMeson]

Well...

I've read most of the old and new testament, though to be fair I forgot most of it because it was horridly repetitive and boring. I also have read Buddhist literature.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Adam
These things are brought up again and again like the tastiest cud, yet are simple tiresome rubbish.

Atheism is not believing in god.

I can't agree with you on this point.
Theism means "Belief in the existence of God(s)"
The prefix A signifies negation; "not" or "without".
Atheism is therefore, literally, "Without belief in the existence of God(s)".

Atheism is a rejection of god.

I agree with this. Rejection of God would necessitate that God existed in order to reject him. One could, however, say that atheism is a rejection of the idea or concept of God.

Atheists here are focused on christianity.

I'd agree with this as well. I find that the Atheists here respond fairly equally to any topic. That we have more Christians posting here than Buddhists is simply a matter of demographics.

Atheists reject all things supernatural/spiritual.

Again, Id agree with this. Atheism does not, in itself, reject anything but the belief in God.

Atheism is by definition not believing or following any religion.

Where do you get this definition from? Can you cite a dictionary or appendix or something? Give an arguement towards this definition or against what I stated above?

~Raithere

 

[Adam]

Originally posted by Adam
Ah well, I have a little spare time, so I'm going to waste it clarifying something. I have seen sciforums users many times say these things:
- Atheism is not believing in god.
- Atheism is a rejection of god.
- Atheists here are focused on christianity.
- Atheists reject all things supernatural/spiritual.

These things are brought up again and again like the tastiest cud, yet are simple tiresome rubbish.

Those things I mentioned are the beliefs of others, or so it often seems. Sciforums user often use "atheism" to represent those ideas. I DO NOT agree that atheism is those things.

Originally posted by Raithere

Atheism is by definition not believing or following any religion.

Where do you get this definition from? Can you cite a dictionary or appendix or something? Give an arguement towards this definition or against what I stated above?

I get this definition from the word "atheism". "Theism", as you know, is belief in some religion. Not necessarily in gods. A religion may involve nature spirits, little green men from Mars, et cetera, and does not necessarily require gods. Atheism would discount such religions as well as any deistic religions.