At Jan Ardena's request- My deconversion story

[Tinker683]

It started in grade 4.

I was a wee one then, and very ignorant to the world around me. I hated Church at the time, not because of any religous issue, but because it was crimping my Nintendo time.

But one night I was very sick. I remember it clearly, staring out my window at the full moon, and I asked God a prayer: I asked him if he wouldn't let me throw up. For you see ( and still, to this day ) I'm VERY paranoid about vomiting. I HATE it.

But, minutes after the prayer....my nausea vanished... and replaced with a warm feeling of comfort.

I knew that God has touched me. And I wanted to touch him back.

So every since that day, until grade 7, I would goto Chruch faithfully every Sunday. My grandmother gave me what was called, " The Picture Bible " which was a nice little comic-book version of the Bible. I read it, in hopes of understanding God. After reading it, I felt some-what closer to him, so I decided to read it again, and again. ( I would read it 14 times in total )

I never really questioned faith then: I had no reason too. I had built a perfect sphere, a life revolved around my loving Jesus, and me.

But all of that came to a violent halt, one Friday, in grade 7.

I was invited to a church get together, called " Friday Fire " which was a worship service/pizza party afterwrads combined. I went there, thinking nothing much of it, just another function with God in it.
Everyone was really nice, and very concerned about my life, which made me feel really good. Then the service began, and the preacher came on and started his thing.

But then he said these exact words:

" All the other Chrisitian are sinners. They think they're with God, but they're really with Satan. We are the only church that is faithfully obeying our Lord Jesus... "

He continued on with usual domga-hooba, but the damage was done. I was furious! The arrogant gaul of this man! How dare he claim that his " church " was superior to everyone elses!

Well, I looked around me, to see if anyone else was drinking in this Neo-Nazistic crap, and they were all drinking it up! I couldn't believe it!

" What makes him think he was right " was the first question thrown in the name of Freethought, for me. First I had it only relate to his chruch, then I asked the question regaurding every church, and then every religon.

But I didn't let go easy. for 5 more years I would struggled, revise, and try to put together a crumbbling sphere. Cracks were begining to come through in the form of questions.

Why did God condemn Adam and Eve? How did God know about the serpent? Why did Jesus have to die for us- Why couldn't God just snap his fingers and say, " Your forgiven ". Why did have to condemn other people- wouldn't it be more merciful to just send them into quiet oblivion rather than eternal hellfire?

These were but the first of questions. I would ask my pastor, my parents, my youth leader- everyone I thought might know. I went to a the Luthern Theological Southern Seminary in Columbus, S.C, and asked the theogians there my questions.

The answers I got were one of two things:
1) Questions that were inconsistent, and only dissolved into more questions.

2) " Just have faith. ". These were what the theogians at the Seminary told me, along with everyone else there. I began to hate the phrase, because it didn't do PROVE anything.

My doubts and questions would continue to rise and fall as the years went by. I attended less and less, and just stopped goign after a while.

I experiment with other religions, other ideas ( As my apologetics for faith were beginning to strech. )

New Age, Wicca, Satanism, Monism ( The idea that all paths lead to one. ) I tried reconstructing my faith, trying to put in supports for what I felt was a tattered, and crumbling belief

Then, one day... I happened upon an essay written online, in one of my searches on religous tolerance called, " Dear Theologian " by Dan Barker, for his book, " Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Athiest "

I remember reading it, then laughing out loud for minutes after I was finished. Why? Because it was so logically profound.

Mr.Barker hit so many points on so many notes. Looking around, I read the other essays written by him, and the other members of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. After years of doubts, fears, pain, and sweat... I finally found released.

Around October 2001, I told myself that I was an atheist. And you know what? it was liberating. I wasn't afraid of disappointing God, I wasn't afraid of hell, of being wrong, of hate, of everything else. I was free.

Ever since then, I've grown and grown in my athiesm. I discovered Humanism along the way, and realized that my personnal beliefs parraleled many Humanistic ideas. So, I called my a Humanist form that point.

My parents think I'm going through some kind of "phase" and don't ever talk about it. My grandmother, was instrumental in my rebrith in Jesus, was espically hurt...but I'm sure she'll understand.

My older brother, thankfully, is a Satanist, and doesn't care. he and I have had many bible bashing sessions

My girlriend was hit hardest by it, though. Her and I have been together for about a year now ( and still are, I'm happy to report!
She was a skeptic for a while, but then was born again. her and I had some heated discussions, but ended them in realizing that our beliefs were diffrent, but we weren't. Her and I supported each other through our dark days of suicidal depression ( which is another story all together ) and she was tolerant to realize that jsut because I had diffrent beliefs than her, didn't mean I loved her any less. She brings up the question now and then pretaining to faith, but it mostly goes under the rug. I aksed her some of the questions that plagued me for many years, and she immediatly backed off. I don't think she can take it, right now. ( If I may say though, she's becoming more and more ' athiesistic " if I may coin such a word, the longer she's around me. There might be hope for her yet

And, thats how it is now.

Hope that was an interesting read, and I'm looking forward to all the comments your going make, Jan

 

[Xev]

You're trying to debate Jan? Oh you poor thing...last I tried, she accused me of trying to kill God.

Shall we swap de-conversion stories? I fear I have little to add - I more or less maintained my natural state. I was never indoctrinated, for dad is an athiest and mum didn't care.

Anyways, I more or less became an athiest as soon as I understood that athiesm is essentially negative - we aren't out to 'disprove' God, we simply don't believe the concept. It's not an state of knowing, it's a state of not knowing.

Anyways, God never answered my prayers, so there was no longer a reason to believe.

 

[Cris]

tinker,

Good story, I enjoyed reading it. Many thanks for taking the time to do that.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by Tinker683
I knew that God has touched me. And I wanted to touch him back.

So God touched you huh!
There’s your proof.

" All the other Chrisitian are sinners. They think they're with God, but they're really with Satan. We are the only church that is faithfully obeying our Lord Jesus... "

You should have checked to see if they were really obeying Lord Jesus by studying his teachings.
If they were, then the preacher had good reason to say what he said, if they weren’t then your summation was correct.

But I didn't let go easy. for 5 more years I would struggled, revise, and try to put together a crumbling sphere.

Why? You already realised God was real.

Why did God condemn Adam and Eve?

My understanding is they condemned themselves.

Why couldn't God just snap his fingers and say, " Your forgiven ".

Because they decided to taste the forbidden fruit via there freewill, given to them by God. What would have been the point in denying them their desire by forcing them to accept Him.

Why did have to condemn other people- wouldn't it be more merciful to just send them into quiet oblivion rather than eternal hellfire?

There is a law that says if you drink more than a certain amount of alcohol and then drive, you are breaking the law. This law is put in place for the protection of the driver and people in general. If you violate the law you will be condemned and punished according to the circumstances. Does this mean the law makers condemn the ‘people’ or the ‘acts of the people?’

" Just have faith. ". These were what the theogians at the Seminary told me, along with everyone else there. I began to hate the phrase, because it didn't do PROVE anything.

But you already had proof, through faith.

After years of doubts, fears, pain, and sweat... I finally found released.

Then real religion isn’t for you.

I wasn't afraid of disappointing God, I wasn't afraid of hell, of being wrong, of hate, of everything else. I was free.

Not being afraid is only the opposite of being afraid, both are only perceptions and both perceptions are impartial to knowledge. From what I can understand from the very beginning of your experience, is that fear or lack of it never played a role, it was faith, but somehow fear entered into the equation.
You say you are free.
I ask, free of what?
God or the idea of God??
The idea of God is pretty much an idea, knowledge can come from ideas, but so also can ignorance, and seeing as you have already experienced God and therefore know that He is real, it can only be said that ignorance is is the cause for your false sense of security.

" if I may coin such a word, the longer she's around me. There might be hope for her yet

So you claim to love your partner but yet you don’t want her to experience the feeling of being touched by God like you had, you want her to descend to your ignorant level.
Be careful, what you wish for, it may come true.

Thanks for sharing that story, and I hope you can one day rekindle that feeling you had prior to your experience with The Almighty God.
It is a very rare and precious experience.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Cactus Jack]

You and your brother dappled in Satanism, very cool. I think its interesting how the religion isn't really about Satan but using the name as a scare tactic. Isn't Satanism more about finding things out for your self, radical individualism?

Thanx, Cactus

 

[Tinker683]

Jan,

So God touched you huh! There’s your proof.

Yeah, and the Easter bunny came to me as well, so theres my proof.
What I had then I'd garner was a wishful experince. Any number of things could have happened to me that night, but I seriously doubt it was God.

And if it was, he still has to explain why he's left me. If it's because I gave up my faith in him, then that would mean that God only listens to those he wants to listen to. And in that case, I would much rather be sent to burn in hell then live with such a tyrant.

Of course, thats assuming that he's real, which I don't need to think he is.

ou should have checked to see if they were really obeying Lord Jesus by studying his teachings. If they were, then the preacher had good reason to say what he said, if they weren’t then your summation was correct.

Please. Any Chrisitan who owns anything worth more than 20 bucks, who still has reguard for his family, who hasn't rejected all things "wordly" isn't obeying the teachings of Jesus.

This man was a hypocrite and a bigot.

Why? You already realised God was real.

In much the same way children realize that Santa is real. Unfortunately, Jan, we adults require a little more proof for such things.

My understanding is they condemned themselves.

This is just flat idiotic Jan. God created human beings, placed a tree in the garden which had no purpose in it than that if they ate from it, theey would be damned, allowed a Serpent into the garden to trick them, and did absolutely nothing as he watched Eve commit the crime.

Now of course, it wasn't a crime. They were ignorant, and by the Bible's own admission, has no concept of right or wrong. God not only permitted all of this to happen, but then he condemned them, and every follower to eternal torture.

If I knew that my child was about to drink a vial of poison, and I did nothing, and then after my 2 year old was dead, blame it on him, you'd probably tell me that I was a vicious monster, wouldn't you?

There is a law that says if you drink more than a certain amount of alcohol and then drive, you are breaking the law. This law is put in place for the protection of the driver and people in general. If you violate the law you will be condemned and punished according to the circumstances. Does this mean the law makers condemn the ‘people’ or the ‘acts of the people?

This is really stupid reasoning. Firstly, people who commit such crimes are both fully aware of what their doing, and the punishment is only for a finite time.

It isn't the same with the Chrisitan doctrine. Eve has no sense of right and wrong until after she ate from the fruit.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

By the Bible's very admission, she didn't know any right or wrong before she ate from the tree.

And secondly, hell is eternal. It isn't just something you sit in for a few years, and then go on parole after you've learned your lession. It's forever

But you already had proof, through faith.

To qoute Dan Barker, " Something that can only be true by faith alone is conceeding that it can not stand on it's own merits. It is irrational. "

Then real religion isn’t for you.

No, it isn't. I'm glad we understand this

Not being afraid is only the opposite of being afraid, both are only perceptions and both perceptions are impartial to knowledge. From what I can understand from the very beginning of your experience, is that fear or lack of it never played a role, it was faith, but somehow fear entered into the equation.
You say you are free.
I ask, free of what?
God or the idea of God??
The idea of God is pretty much an idea, knowledge can come from ideas, but so also can ignorance, and seeing as you have already experienced God and therefore know that He is real, it can only be said that ignorance is is the cause for your false sense of security.

God is pretty much an idea. Thank you for proving my case
Free from superstition, from the fear of eternal hell, from having my every action judged unfairly. Free to live my life as *I* see fit, and not some sky-king who would demand that I obey his every wish rather than enjoy the life he gave me.

So you claim to love your partner but yet you don’t want her to experience the feeling of being touched by God like you had, you want her to descend to your ignorant level. Be careful, what you wish for, it may come true.

I seriously doubt Jan Ardena, who believes in enteral hell, has any business talking to me about " love ".
I DO love my partner. She has given me everything, and so much more. What I said was an experssion that I made jokingly. She has her faith, but I will never do anything to jeopardize that faith. It brings her strength, so I won't try and " tear her down. "

Whether she becomes an athiest one day, or stays a Chrisitan her entire life, won't ever change how I feel about her. So long as she doesn't force her beliefs on me, as I have not ever forced mine onto her, nor will I ever.

Thank you for your arguements Jan, I'll see you around