Are your thoughts private?
- Thread starter andy1033
- Start date
The government will never be able to monitor people's thoughts... if you think anyone can, that's called paranoia. 
Even if you have somebody under an MRI machine (which is rather hard to do without them knowing it), you don't know what their specific thoughts are... it's way too complex for people to ever translate the exact brain state into the corresponding thought. For one thing, it relies on people being able to report their thoughts that accurately so they can determine that thought x is represented by brain state y. The number of possible thoughts people could have, and even the distinct ways people could think of the very same proposition, all with unique brain states, makes this method useless for translating exact thoughts.
So the government will have to settle for just watching all our actions.
Even if you have somebody under an MRI machine (which is rather hard to do without them knowing it), you don't know what their specific thoughts are... it's way too complex for people to ever translate the exact brain state into the corresponding thought. For one thing, it relies on people being able to report their thoughts that accurately so they can determine that thought x is represented by brain state y. The number of possible thoughts people could have, and even the distinct ways people could think of the very same proposition, all with unique brain states, makes this method useless for translating exact thoughts.So the government will have to settle for just watching all our actions.
There are systems currently in development which respond to thoughts. For example you think "up" and the cursor on a computer screen moves up. Actually these have been underway for many years. To me, that clearly indicates that we may some day see direct links between thoughts and technology (including sensor technology).
And no, it ism't just working by the muscular actions of the face and scalp.
And no, it ism't just working by the muscular actions of the face and scalp.
thx for the input, but i think that science is a bit further down the line then you two think. Now this is only my opinion. I just wanted to know what would you people do if in the future(not to far) governments were able to read peoples thoughts and with this knowledge, manipulate you into doing or thinking certain things.
Hi Andy1033, welcome to Sciforums. That you may post long and happy here.
The following article came in my emails today. It is that you are asking for it.
Take notice that I don't say it is solid, this website and/or article. It just came in and a little after that I saw this post. I am against any mind control, in what way ever. This article sounds maybe paranoid, then again, have a look for yourself... Enjoy...
----- Original Message -----
From: I A H F
To: Health Freedom,Codex Issues
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 7:06 PM
Subject: Mind Control- The Ultimate Terror-( Might want to think TWICE about owning a cell phone after reading THIS..)
IAHF Webmaster: Breaking News, Anti Chip, New Whirrrrrld Odor
IAHF List: Better to read this from the link below than from what I've copied and pasted here. On the web this article has many valuable attached links that don't show below as hypertext links but are on the web. This is one of the best articles I've seen yet on this topic.
http://educate-yourself.org/mcindex.html
Mind Control The Ultimate Terror
The topic of mind control is elaborate, multifaceted, and multilayered. For the casual reader, it can quickly become unpleasant and numbing, overwhelming the senses and creating a desire to exit the topic, but avoiding this subject is the most foolish thing you could possibly do since your only chance of surviving this hideous and insidious enslavement program is to understand how it functions and take steps to reduce your vulnerability.
The plans to create a mind controlled workers society have been in place for a long time. The technology grew out of experiments that the Nazis started before World War II and intensified during the time of the Nazi concentration camps when an unlimited supply of children and adults were available for experimentation.
We've heard about the inhumane medical experiments performed on camp prisoners, but no word was ever mentioned of the mind control experiments. That was not to be divulged to the American public.
Dr. Joseph Mengele of Auschwitz notoriety was the principle developer of the MK Ultra and Monarch mind control programs. Mengele and hundreds of other high ranking Nazis were secretly moved into the United States and South America in the aftermath of World War II in an Operation designated Paperclip. The Nazis continued their work in developing mind control and rocketry technologies in secret underground military bases. The only thing we were told about was the rocketry work with former Nazi star celebrities like Warner Von Braun. The killers, torturers, and mutilators of innocent human beings were kept discretely out of sight, but busy in their underground military facilities which soon became home to thousands upon thousands of kidnapped American children snatched off the streets and placed into iron bar cages stacked from floor to ceiling. These children would be used to further refine and perfect Mengele's mind control technologies. These children (at least the ones who survived the 'training') would become future mind controlled slaves who could be used for anything from sexual blackmail to assassinations.
The lone gunman that we hear about in assassinations, assassination attempts, school shootings, etc. are mind controlled individuals who had been 'programmed' to carry out those missions. Ted Bundy, the 'Son of Sam' serial killer David Berkowitz, Oswald, Timothy McVeigh, the Columbine shooters, Chapman, Sirhan Sirhan, etc. were mind controlled individuals who were programmed to perform. Tens of thousands of young teenage boys were kidnapped and forced into a mind control training program called The Montauk Project starting around 1976. Many of these boys were to become 'sleepers', programmed to go into action at a later date when properly "triggered" to engage in some sort of destructive or disruptive conduct.
The day is now approaching in which government mind control technologies will be directed at you, your neighbors, and your loved ones. Every single day, equipment is being erected and installed in this country with the hidden purpose of exerting mind control over the entire population. Everywhere in this country, AT&T microwave transmission towers are being erected. The antennae usually look like four vertical flattened pipes about 2 feet in length located in each corner of the tower, two thirds up from the ground. Just look around, you'll see them. And you'll also notice more of them going up once you begin to pay attention. Do you really think that we need that much 'cell phone' transmission capability? Hardly. These mind control technologies have been in place for a long time. It's not an accident that the frequency band chosen for cell phone use (around 430 Mhz) just happens to be the identical frequency range that Wilhelm Reich discovered in the late1940's to effect thought transmission and allow the mind to be manipulated without the victim realizing it. Reich worked on this project secretly for the CIA for over 5 years until he realized who the CIA was planning to use the mind control on -the American people. Reich was murdered in Federal prison in 1957, just a few weeks before he was due to be released having been in prison for 2 years on a trumped up charge of contempt of court.
We will post articles here that will give you greater insight into the methodology of mind control and its strong connections to Satanism and satanic rituals.
To maintain an intentional ignorance of this enslaving technology is an open invitation to join the Domain of the Damned.
For starters, you should read a review ( http://educate-yourself.org/nwomcbturireview.html ) by Uri Dowbenko of Brice Taylor's book "Thanks for the Memories".
This highly detailed and well written journal gives you a front row seat into the real world activities of the Secret Government- the 'government' that's really in charge behind the scenes (those scenes being created by the mainstream Propaganda Ministry media whose job is to deceive you into thinking that the 'cover story government' is the real deal. Believe me, it isn't!
It's a dog and pony show. All show, and no substance. The presidential election snafu, the interminable talk show debates, Rush Limbaugh, etc., etc., ....all designed to keep you preoccupied and bewildered from the steady enslavement and erosion of constitutionally guaranteed liberties that is taking place daily. The Sept. 11 "attack" was planned and launched to provide an excuse for passing fascist, totalitarian 'laws' designed to enslave us and strip the populace of the few remaining freedoms we still enjoy. National ID 'smart" cards that will contain your entire medical, financial history, etc. will be required to engage in any sort of normal consumer activity like getting on a plane or even going from state to state after military border guards become a common scene in this once free land. Spend your cash now while you still have cash, because soon all financial transactions will be conducted using plastic cards. And just like Nazi Germany, our people will be encouraged to report any 'suspicious' activity of their neighbors. In fact, life in the United States will soon become a carbon copy of Nazi Germany of the late 1930's, just a lot more high tech.
Are you ready to live in Orwell's world of Big Brother? In Hitler's Fourth Reich? Well, it's just around the corner if we remain passive and inactive.
Pam Schuffert Reports
Satanism, the Illuminati, and mind control are heavily interlinked. Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) is one of the principle methods used to shatter the psyches of very young children and begin the process of mind control programming. A new series of articles by Pam Schuffert is being written daily to chronicle the current state of satanic activity in the America today. See her reports posted at this link.( http://educate-yourself.org/pamschuffertindex.html)
Articles on Mind Control & Satanism
Will You Help? An Appeal from Brice Taylor (Feb. 10, 2002)
The Ultimate Orwellian Nightmare (Jan. 17, 2002)
Mind Control 101, An Introduction (August 13, 2001)
The Secret Uses of Microwave Mind Control by the British (July 10, 2001)
Global Mind Control Slated For Humanity By 2004 (June 27, 2001)
CIA Mind-Control Operations and THE SYNDROME (June 13, 2001)
Current Mind Control In America: What We Think Is Going On (Mar 10, 2001)
The Illuminati in America: 13 Part Interview with Former Mind Control Programmer (Jan 22, 2001)
For additional insights, check out the Mind Control Discussion List.
To be continued..
Last Update: Feb. 28, 2002
The following article came in my emails today. It is that you are asking for it.
Take notice that I don't say it is solid, this website and/or article. It just came in and a little after that I saw this post. I am against any mind control, in what way ever. This article sounds maybe paranoid, then again, have a look for yourself... Enjoy...
----- Original Message -----
From: I A H F
To: Health Freedom,Codex Issues
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 7:06 PM
Subject: Mind Control- The Ultimate Terror-( Might want to think TWICE about owning a cell phone after reading THIS..)
IAHF Webmaster: Breaking News, Anti Chip, New Whirrrrrld Odor
IAHF List: Better to read this from the link below than from what I've copied and pasted here. On the web this article has many valuable attached links that don't show below as hypertext links but are on the web. This is one of the best articles I've seen yet on this topic.
http://educate-yourself.org/mcindex.html
Mind Control The Ultimate Terror
The topic of mind control is elaborate, multifaceted, and multilayered. For the casual reader, it can quickly become unpleasant and numbing, overwhelming the senses and creating a desire to exit the topic, but avoiding this subject is the most foolish thing you could possibly do since your only chance of surviving this hideous and insidious enslavement program is to understand how it functions and take steps to reduce your vulnerability.
The plans to create a mind controlled workers society have been in place for a long time. The technology grew out of experiments that the Nazis started before World War II and intensified during the time of the Nazi concentration camps when an unlimited supply of children and adults were available for experimentation.
We've heard about the inhumane medical experiments performed on camp prisoners, but no word was ever mentioned of the mind control experiments. That was not to be divulged to the American public.
Dr. Joseph Mengele of Auschwitz notoriety was the principle developer of the MK Ultra and Monarch mind control programs. Mengele and hundreds of other high ranking Nazis were secretly moved into the United States and South America in the aftermath of World War II in an Operation designated Paperclip. The Nazis continued their work in developing mind control and rocketry technologies in secret underground military bases. The only thing we were told about was the rocketry work with former Nazi star celebrities like Warner Von Braun. The killers, torturers, and mutilators of innocent human beings were kept discretely out of sight, but busy in their underground military facilities which soon became home to thousands upon thousands of kidnapped American children snatched off the streets and placed into iron bar cages stacked from floor to ceiling. These children would be used to further refine and perfect Mengele's mind control technologies. These children (at least the ones who survived the 'training') would become future mind controlled slaves who could be used for anything from sexual blackmail to assassinations.
The lone gunman that we hear about in assassinations, assassination attempts, school shootings, etc. are mind controlled individuals who had been 'programmed' to carry out those missions. Ted Bundy, the 'Son of Sam' serial killer David Berkowitz, Oswald, Timothy McVeigh, the Columbine shooters, Chapman, Sirhan Sirhan, etc. were mind controlled individuals who were programmed to perform. Tens of thousands of young teenage boys were kidnapped and forced into a mind control training program called The Montauk Project starting around 1976. Many of these boys were to become 'sleepers', programmed to go into action at a later date when properly "triggered" to engage in some sort of destructive or disruptive conduct.
The day is now approaching in which government mind control technologies will be directed at you, your neighbors, and your loved ones. Every single day, equipment is being erected and installed in this country with the hidden purpose of exerting mind control over the entire population. Everywhere in this country, AT&T microwave transmission towers are being erected. The antennae usually look like four vertical flattened pipes about 2 feet in length located in each corner of the tower, two thirds up from the ground. Just look around, you'll see them. And you'll also notice more of them going up once you begin to pay attention. Do you really think that we need that much 'cell phone' transmission capability? Hardly. These mind control technologies have been in place for a long time. It's not an accident that the frequency band chosen for cell phone use (around 430 Mhz) just happens to be the identical frequency range that Wilhelm Reich discovered in the late1940's to effect thought transmission and allow the mind to be manipulated without the victim realizing it. Reich worked on this project secretly for the CIA for over 5 years until he realized who the CIA was planning to use the mind control on -the American people. Reich was murdered in Federal prison in 1957, just a few weeks before he was due to be released having been in prison for 2 years on a trumped up charge of contempt of court.
We will post articles here that will give you greater insight into the methodology of mind control and its strong connections to Satanism and satanic rituals.
To maintain an intentional ignorance of this enslaving technology is an open invitation to join the Domain of the Damned.
For starters, you should read a review ( http://educate-yourself.org/nwomcbturireview.html ) by Uri Dowbenko of Brice Taylor's book "Thanks for the Memories".
This highly detailed and well written journal gives you a front row seat into the real world activities of the Secret Government- the 'government' that's really in charge behind the scenes (those scenes being created by the mainstream Propaganda Ministry media whose job is to deceive you into thinking that the 'cover story government' is the real deal. Believe me, it isn't!
It's a dog and pony show. All show, and no substance. The presidential election snafu, the interminable talk show debates, Rush Limbaugh, etc., etc., ....all designed to keep you preoccupied and bewildered from the steady enslavement and erosion of constitutionally guaranteed liberties that is taking place daily. The Sept. 11 "attack" was planned and launched to provide an excuse for passing fascist, totalitarian 'laws' designed to enslave us and strip the populace of the few remaining freedoms we still enjoy. National ID 'smart" cards that will contain your entire medical, financial history, etc. will be required to engage in any sort of normal consumer activity like getting on a plane or even going from state to state after military border guards become a common scene in this once free land. Spend your cash now while you still have cash, because soon all financial transactions will be conducted using plastic cards. And just like Nazi Germany, our people will be encouraged to report any 'suspicious' activity of their neighbors. In fact, life in the United States will soon become a carbon copy of Nazi Germany of the late 1930's, just a lot more high tech.
Are you ready to live in Orwell's world of Big Brother? In Hitler's Fourth Reich? Well, it's just around the corner if we remain passive and inactive.
Pam Schuffert Reports
Satanism, the Illuminati, and mind control are heavily interlinked. Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) is one of the principle methods used to shatter the psyches of very young children and begin the process of mind control programming. A new series of articles by Pam Schuffert is being written daily to chronicle the current state of satanic activity in the America today. See her reports posted at this link.( http://educate-yourself.org/pamschuffertindex.html)
Articles on Mind Control & Satanism
Will You Help? An Appeal from Brice Taylor (Feb. 10, 2002)
The Ultimate Orwellian Nightmare (Jan. 17, 2002)
Mind Control 101, An Introduction (August 13, 2001)
The Secret Uses of Microwave Mind Control by the British (July 10, 2001)
Global Mind Control Slated For Humanity By 2004 (June 27, 2001)
CIA Mind-Control Operations and THE SYNDROME (June 13, 2001)
Current Mind Control In America: What We Think Is Going On (Mar 10, 2001)
The Illuminati in America: 13 Part Interview with Former Mind Control Programmer (Jan 22, 2001)
For additional insights, check out the Mind Control Discussion List.
To be continued..
Last Update: Feb. 28, 2002
thx for the input Banshee, do you have any more webpages for us to look at. This is turning into a nice little debate that everyone all over the world should read and know about(if only the world would ever acknowlege the truths in this subject). That why i always say, that the people who are looking for answers to the ufo question, have all the answers here on earth. I would bet my life that no one has ever been abducted and it is rather some sinister work of scientists on this planet. Maybe i am opening up another topic there, but i would like to keep in with this topic.
This technology ins't that far out in principle, it only requires development. The human brain pumps out electrical signals all the time, and these change with our state of consciousness, our emotions, and our thoughts. All that is required is sensing these signals and interpreting them.
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/cs/bayliss.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/CuttingEdge/cuttingedge000609.html
http://www.gtec.at/bci_research.htm
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/research/bci/
http://newton.bme.columbia.edu/bci
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/bayliss/research/bci.html
Ah, I see they're all calling this stuff BCI (brain computer interface) now. If you just do a search on www.google.com using brain computer interface, you'll get heaps.
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/cs/bayliss.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/CuttingEdge/cuttingedge000609.html
http://www.gtec.at/bci_research.htm
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/research/bci/
http://newton.bme.columbia.edu/bci
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/bayliss/research/bci.html
Ah, I see they're all calling this stuff BCI (brain computer interface) now. If you just do a search on www.google.com using brain computer interface, you'll get heaps.
The ability to tell when someone thinks the word "up" isn't significant progress. If somebody knows I'm thinking "up", they still don't know which star I'm looking at (unless I happen to know the name of it and think it and they've identified the pattern in the brain for the thought of that name). You don't seem to realize how complex thought is, and how much of it is more experiential compared to linguistic.
Studying people's brains, you can't know much other than basic emotions and (theoretically in the future, if you match up brain states with people's reports of what they're thinking often enough) what people think in ordered language to their self. There's a lot of thinking that's more complex than that, which will never be translated because people can't report it accurately. (To describe your nonlinguistic thoughts in a precise way is virtually impossible since we have to use language to communicate.) Most of the contents of your mind is experiences... what you're seeing, hearing, feeling, etc. You don't have to form linguistic thoughts about it to be thinking about it. Even when you do get into the range of thoughts that are linguistic, behind every sentence you think to yourself there are ten partial aborted nonsensical sentences. When you think you're making sense in your thoughts, the language involved often has gaps -- after all, you know what's supposed to be there. For someone reading a transcript, this might take them years to decipher an hour of thoughts, even with a direct brain state to word translator. Also behind every sentence there are very complex meanings that you don't expand on to yourself since you already know them. For example, when you're thinking "dog" it may give you the impression in your mind of a particular dog you once had, with an immense number of details attached. Someone tracking your thoughts would not realistically be able to translate anything beyond just "dog"... or, worse yet, perhaps with your conception being different (you thinking of a golden retriever vs. another person thinking of a great dane) the brain state might not match up right and they wouldn't even be able to recognize it as "dog" due to it being different from other people's idea of the word.
In short, common thoughts where everyone has just about the exact same conception of it (like "up") can be tracked in theory by their causes in the brain. More unique thoughts plus complex nonlinguistic thoughts cannot, and that means most things.
Realistically, rather than looking at the brain, tracking sub vocalizations would be the best bet. When people think of saying something, or think of someone saying something to them, they essentially go through the motions of saying it -- just not loud enough to ever be heard. If you can implant something in people near their vocal chords to monitor that, you could know what they're hearing people say and you could know what thoughts they have that are fully linguistic. That'll get you a lot further than looking at the brain would. It'll still leave it as an impossible task to sort through the huge pile of mostly meaningless things to come up with something useful about the monitored person of course... half the population would have to be employed reading the thoughts of the other half.
Studying people's brains, you can't know much other than basic emotions and (theoretically in the future, if you match up brain states with people's reports of what they're thinking often enough) what people think in ordered language to their self. There's a lot of thinking that's more complex than that, which will never be translated because people can't report it accurately. (To describe your nonlinguistic thoughts in a precise way is virtually impossible since we have to use language to communicate.) Most of the contents of your mind is experiences... what you're seeing, hearing, feeling, etc. You don't have to form linguistic thoughts about it to be thinking about it. Even when you do get into the range of thoughts that are linguistic, behind every sentence you think to yourself there are ten partial aborted nonsensical sentences. When you think you're making sense in your thoughts, the language involved often has gaps -- after all, you know what's supposed to be there. For someone reading a transcript, this might take them years to decipher an hour of thoughts, even with a direct brain state to word translator. Also behind every sentence there are very complex meanings that you don't expand on to yourself since you already know them. For example, when you're thinking "dog" it may give you the impression in your mind of a particular dog you once had, with an immense number of details attached. Someone tracking your thoughts would not realistically be able to translate anything beyond just "dog"... or, worse yet, perhaps with your conception being different (you thinking of a golden retriever vs. another person thinking of a great dane) the brain state might not match up right and they wouldn't even be able to recognize it as "dog" due to it being different from other people's idea of the word.
In short, common thoughts where everyone has just about the exact same conception of it (like "up") can be tracked in theory by their causes in the brain. More unique thoughts plus complex nonlinguistic thoughts cannot, and that means most things.
Realistically, rather than looking at the brain, tracking sub vocalizations would be the best bet. When people think of saying something, or think of someone saying something to them, they essentially go through the motions of saying it -- just not loud enough to ever be heard. If you can implant something in people near their vocal chords to monitor that, you could know what they're hearing people say and you could know what thoughts they have that are fully linguistic. That'll get you a lot further than looking at the brain would. It'll still leave it as an impossible task to sort through the huge pile of mostly meaningless things to come up with something useful about the monitored person of course... half the population would have to be employed reading the thoughts of the other half.
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thx for the reply hoth, i do know how complex it would be to read peoples thoughts, and how the brain operates in certain situations. I just wanted to open a discussion and to see what people on this board knew.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THE MAIN THING ABOUT THIS DISCUSSION IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO PERTH INTO PEOPLES THOUGHTS WILL LIKE YOU SAID NEVER BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT OF THOSE THOUGHTS, SO IN REALITY THERE WOULD BE NO POINT IN DOING SUCH AN EXCERCISE. BUT THAT AW WE ALL KNOW WON'T STOP THE PERTHS DOING EXACTLY THAT.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THE MAIN THING ABOUT THIS DISCUSSION IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO PERTH INTO PEOPLES THOUGHTS WILL LIKE YOU SAID NEVER BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT OF THOSE THOUGHTS, SO IN REALITY THERE WOULD BE NO POINT IN DOING SUCH AN EXCERCISE. BUT THAT AW WE ALL KNOW WON'T STOP THE PERTHS DOING EXACTLY THAT.
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We hada bit of discussion about the reality of equipment in the following thread:
mirror neurons and psychotronic devices
http://www.sciforums.com/t5879/s/thread.html
there's a link or two posted in there. I know some of the things I mention in there will seem to most impossible. (Some of you might even think my commentary is a little odd)
In truth I know about the ability for thoughts to be manipulated and for particular waveformations aimed at the temporal lobes to create "Speech bandwidths" (since the temporal lobes control speech recognition, and also the controls of the voice box.)
Anyone bombarded by frequency/microwaves will notice that if they wear a hairband with a metal piece in it, they will feel pain over time where the frequency is pushing an electromagnetic field from the metal into their head. If a tin foil sheet surrounds them they will actually get the taste of metal in their mouth.
Not that I'm saying you should go out dressed in tinfoil. (although that would be rather morbidly amusing, a "Sunday Roast" instead of "Sunday Best".)
for Hoth
The equipment does and has existed ever since CABAL.
mirror neurons and psychotronic devices
http://www.sciforums.com/t5879/s/thread.html
there's a link or two posted in there. I know some of the things I mention in there will seem to most impossible. (Some of you might even think my commentary is a little odd)
In truth I know about the ability for thoughts to be manipulated and for particular waveformations aimed at the temporal lobes to create "Speech bandwidths" (since the temporal lobes control speech recognition, and also the controls of the voice box.)
Anyone bombarded by frequency/microwaves will notice that if they wear a hairband with a metal piece in it, they will feel pain over time where the frequency is pushing an electromagnetic field from the metal into their head. If a tin foil sheet surrounds them they will actually get the taste of metal in their mouth.
Not that I'm saying you should go out dressed in tinfoil. (although that would be rather morbidly amusing, a "Sunday Roast" instead of "Sunday Best".)
for Hoth
The equipment does and has existed ever since CABAL.