Are old religions evolving out of existence?

C

charles brough

Registered Senior Member
Until now, all religions were based on the belief in “spirits,” but the structure of religion and its ability to carry out its function and succeed has nothing to do with “spirits.” It has to do with the level of technology enabled by the religion and its ability to bond the largest number of people together into a single society and do it for a good many centuries.

The first phase of the development of religion evolved with speech and became common among hunting/gathering groups. It lasted from when anatomically modern human beings appeared some 195,000 years ago to about 40,000 years ago in the mainstream. That is some 155,000 years.

The competition between hunting gathering groups during all that time encouraged the evolution of religion to where it finally developed into its second phase. It became able to bond hunting-gathering groups together so they could go after big game in large number and, at the same time, gradually kill off or drive out the remaining hunting-gathering groups and the Neanderthals in the main stream. The hunting/gathering groups still survived in peripheral ares of the earth.

The new, large-group, religion was based on hunting technology and was responsible for the cave paintings. That religion lasted from about 4,000 years ago to about 5,000 years ago. That is, it lasted some 35,000 years.

The third and last phase began about 5,000 years ago when religion had so developed that it could bind people into huge cities, city states and even immense empires beginning in Sumer and Egypt.

The next phase has yet to appear, but it will unite the world into one nation.

charles
http://atheistic-science.com
 
But you're giving religion a life of its own, as if it makes decisions on its own. But religion isn't a living entity.

Charles, to simplify things here, let me break it down for you: Religion is the natural response of Man, an inquisitive creature that requires answers to be satisfied. Back before we knew what made rain, we used to think there was an ocean in the sky; before we knew about plate tectonics, we thought earthquakes were the wrath of god(s).

Religions are based on knowledge--how much does any particular society have. That's why the Bronze Age mythologies like those of Abraham have no practical function today. There's more than morality in the Bible, obviously; there's also treatments for leprosy and guides to selling and/or buying a slave. And that's why atheism is growing in popularity. Today, we know too much to be slaves to religion. And that's why we aren't. That's why civil rights are starting to win out over outdated mores, and why some organizations are changing their tunes to remain relevant (see: Catholic Church).

It's no mystery. The more people there were, the larger communities became. No need for faith to bind them, because they were bound by family ties and common goals. They needed to eat, they needed shelter, they needed to survive among predators. All of these things are more than enough to bind groups of people together. Their religions are simply to fill in the knowledge gaps, and in other cases, to provide moral guidelines.

And obviously you haven't been paying attention to things if you think it is a religion that will bind the world into one nation. First, it won't happen in even the medium-distant future. Second, it won't happen as long as the Abrahamic religions still exist in the Middle East. Third, it won't happen so long as the United States is a nation.
 
Are old religions evolving out of existence?

I don't like the use of evolving. but, anyway, I think some religions are and others are trying to keep up with the times. Take the Catholic Church for example, they are trying to carve out a place in society as a moral and social support group. Which is fine. I know Muslims who honestly beleive there are 4 times as many women as men, this is why the Qur'an says you can have 4 wives. Of course they will teach this fallacy to their children, their children will someday realize they were taught bullshit. Some WILL think "If THIS is bullshit, maybe all of it is..." and quit. It happens all the time. And so religions have to adapt to new social realities and actually THIS is why new religions pop up all the time. Take Baha'i for Islam or Mormonism for Xianity or Scientology or the Raelian Movement - replacing Gods with a more "believable" Alien mythology....
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: I believe religions devolve over time. That's the way it has been from the beginning. Otherwise, we'd all still be worshipping the sun.
Click to expand...

They reflect the time they came from. The oldest ones worshiped the sun and the sky, and the newest ones deal with aliens and technology.
 
charles brough said:
Until now, all religions were based on the belief in “spirits,” but the structure of religion and its ability to carry out its function and succeed has nothing to do with “spirits.” It has to do with the level of technology enabled by the religion and its ability to bond the largest number of people together into a single society and do it for a good many centuries.

The first phase of the development of religion evolved with speech and became common among hunting/gathering groups. It lasted from when anatomically modern human beings appeared some 195,000 years ago to about 40,000 years ago in the mainstream. That is some 155,000 years.

The competition between hunting gathering groups during all that time encouraged the evolution of religion to where it finally developed into its second phase. It became able to bond hunting-gathering groups together so they could go after big game in large number and, at the same time, gradually kill off or drive out the remaining hunting-gathering groups and the Neanderthals in the main stream. The hunting/gathering groups still survived in peripheral ares of the earth.

The new, large-group, religion was based on hunting technology and was responsible for the cave paintings. That religion lasted from about 4,000 years ago to about 5,000 years ago. That is, it lasted some 35,000 years.

The third and last phase began about 5,000 years ago when religion had so developed that it could bind people into huge cities, city states and even immense empires beginning in Sumer and Egypt.

The next phase has yet to appear, but it will unite the world into one nation.

charles
http://atheistic-science.com
Click to expand...

i.e. internet. Especially since an underlying theme to this thread is the sophistication of the believers. Will the newest religion have followers that are unaware of what they have become?
 
religions evolve out of existentialist angst
posited explanations for the apparent mind-body dichotomy
 
A definition for religion: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held with ardor and faith.

It seems to me that "religion" and the "tenets held by religion's" are grouped together as one in the same.

Another thought. Can the way religions evolve evolve?
 
no
ritualized reverence and worship are integral facets of religion
take away that woo factor and one is left with shit resembling ordinary sci and phil natterings
 
reverance: awed respect
ritual: done in accordance with social custom or normal protocol.
worship: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem
A religion following reverance,ritual, or worship does not disagree for the definition given for Religion in my previous post.


Why your statement 'no'?
 
My use of 'evolve' stems entirely upon your use of the word. Using the definition of religion stated along with your description (worship,reverance,ritual)-why do you state that religion evolves from existentialist angst?


meaning these types of behavior (your ascribed qualities to religion) are not uncommon to many aspects of humanity.

So in our sophisticated society, we in effect are in the extreme religous, just not towards a deity. Denials abound among shirkers.

This is an obvious observation, and the idea of "religion" evolving out of existence is ridiculous, or evolving at all.
 
charles brough said:
Until now, all religions were based on the belief in “spirits,” but the structure of religion and its ability to carry out its function and succeed has nothing to do with “spirits.” It has to do with the level of technology enabled by the religion and its ability to bond the largest number of people together into a single society and do it for a good many centuries.
Click to expand...
technological advancements of communication/media are important for any ideology ... I don't think by itself, communications constitutes an ideology of itself
The first phase of the development of religion evolved with speech and became common among hunting/gathering groups. It lasted from when anatomically modern human beings appeared some 195,000 years ago to about 40,000 years ago in the mainstream. That is some 155,000 years.
Click to expand...
this is a tentative model for the history of religion.

The anthropological model is always undergoing (sometimes vast) remodeling ... what to speak of when you start integrating a religious model on the anthropological one

The competition between hunting gathering groups during all that time encouraged the evolution of religion to where it finally developed into its second phase. It became able to bond hunting-gathering groups together so they could go after big game in large number and, at the same time, gradually kill off or drive out the remaining hunting-gathering groups and the Neanderthals in the main stream. The hunting/gathering groups still survived in peripheral ares of the earth.

The new, large-group, religion was based on hunting technology and was responsible for the cave paintings. That religion lasted from about 4,000 years ago to about 5,000 years ago. That is, it lasted some 35,000 years.

The third and last phase began about 5,000 years ago when religion had so developed that it could bind people into huge cities, city states and even immense empires beginning in Sumer and Egypt.

The next phase has yet to appear, but it will unite the world into one nation.

charles
http://atheistic-science.com
Click to expand...
an alternative (somewhat simplified) model is

animism => polytheism => monotheism

Monotheism is sufficient to unify the world, however since the premise for arrival in this world is one of disunity, don't expect to see it manifest in any global fashion.

As for your somewhat sly suggestion that atheism can unify the world, it is difficult to understand what unifying platform of equality you suggest this can take place on
 
No case can be made that atheism itself could unify anything. There is no unifying force to it, no gospel that can sway followers. And there's definitely no hellfire and brimstone that the Abrahamic religions have used to scare people into believing. There's also no governing body that can torture and/or kill folks suspected of following some other ideology until everyone buckles.

I tend to believe that religion is just a part of our genetic makeup. We're predisposed to believe in something greater, I think, even if it's just an idea. That's probably why the only thing that can match religious zealotry is patriotism.

What Charles should be rooting for, if he's rooting for anything, is the demise of the Abrahamic faiths. Those are just bad news. Let them give way for the new religions sure to be born.
 
Religion as a Collection of Definitions..

What we commonly refer to as "Religion" is a group of Social Organizations that are based in shared definitions of a limited number of words.

As the world moves forward into Instant Global Communications, these words lose their provincial meanings and become more generally defined by larger and larger groups of people.

The need for Religion is lost in the larger realization that we are all part of a Greater Reality, and always have been, that Love is Universal, and Freedom is the natural state of Man. As we become more and more accepting of one another, there is less and less need for exclusive "religions". As we become more and more aware of the Universal Meaning of some words, we lose our need for Religion to define anything for us, the truth is self-evident. We are all divinely capable of percieving that Truth Directly.
 
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