Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

[Greatest I am]

Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

Paul took the position that salvation could be gained on faith alone. James took the position that faith without works and deeds is dead. Even if one had faith, like demons and Satan must, without works they were still going to hell.

Most have landed with James who said that faith without deeds and works was dead. This may be due to Jesus who said that we would recognize his people by their works.

Love, it would seem to me, has the same characteristic as faith. Love without works and deeds is dead. Be it love for a spouse, our children, parents or friends or even God, if we did not do works and deeds, they could not know that we love them. At the very least, we would have to tell them we love them and that falls into works and deeds.

Many believers tell me that God is love or loves us all. They always point to deeds and works that fall in the range of un-provable miracles. Most of these miracles are in the ancient past. Creation and what not. Some take it to the present and I have been told often that God can do whatever he wants with us because he made us. I discard this out of hand because I believe that if that were true, God would not also create all those things that kill us and cause us to suffer. That is not a loving act.

Love, human to human, must have ongoing deeds and works to be alive. Without these, love is dead.

Love, God to human, must also have ongoing works and deeds. If God is alive, he must and would express his love with viable and recognizable actions.

If we cannot see these acts on God’s part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

Regards
DL

 

[arauca]

Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

Paul took the position that salvation could be gained on faith alone. James took the position that faith without works and deeds is dead. Even if one had faith, like demons and Satan must, without works they were still going to hell.

Most have landed with James who said that faith without deeds and works was dead. This may be due to Jesus who said that we would recognize his people by their works.

Love, it would seem to me, has the same characteristic as faith. Love without works and deeds is dead. Be it love for a spouse, our children, parents or friends or even God, if we did not do works and deeds, they could not know that we love them. At the very least, we would have to tell them we love them and that falls into works and deeds.

Many believers tell me that God is love or loves us all. They always point to deeds and works that fall in the range of un-provable miracles. Most of these miracles are in the ancient past. Creation and what not. Some take it to the present and I have been told often that God can do whatever he wants with us because he made us. I discard this out of hand because I believe that if that were true, God would not also create all those things that kill us and cause us to suffer. That is not a loving act.

Love, human to human, must have ongoing deeds and works to be alive. Without these, love is dead.

Love, God to human, must also have ongoing works and deeds. If God is alive, he must and would express his love with viable and recognizable actions.

If we cannot see these acts on God’s part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

Regards
DL

Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

 

[elte]

Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

I'm going to say no, since it's the thought that counts the most. I love my late uncle very much because I know he loved me. We did almost nothing physical at all for each other. It was based on shared deep feelings I guess.

 

[Greatest I am]

I'm going to say no, since it's the thought that counts the most. I love my late uncle very much because I know he loved me. We did almost nothing physical at all for each other. It was based on shared deep feelings I guess.

How did you know that he shared this and how did he know you returned those feelings?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

Thanks for the non-answer.

What want or need do I have for respect from outsiders?

Regards
DL

 

[Grumpy]

Faith has always been dead, in that it is belief sans evidence. One can believe all sorts of idiotic things, it is our intellect and reason that should guide us to truths, not our incredulity and ignorance.

God? Doesn't seem to exist. In all probability(given the evidence)man created god, not the other way around.

Love is an inate emotion, part of the legacy of our biological and societal evolution. It, at least, seems to be real.

 

[Greatest I am]

Faith has always been dead, in that it is belief sans evidence. One can believe all sorts of idiotic things, it is our intellect and reason that should guide us to truths, not our incredulity and ignorance.

God? Doesn't seem to exist. In all probability(given the evidence)man created god, not the other way around.

Love is an inate emotion, part of the legacy of our biological and societal evolution. It, at least, seems to be real.

+ 1

Regards
DL

 

[elte]

How did you know that he shared this and how did he know you returned those feelings?

Regards
DL

My brother took to him one of the blue LED flashlights that I was giving to my friends. A later time when my mom had visited him at a family gathering, she heard him say how he kept the flashlight nearby a lot and liked it so much. She concluded that it was his favorite possession.

He was aware of my doubts about God's existence and though he tried to support belief in God when we privately talked once, I think he felt special kinship because of having similar doubts. He was always very kind in demeanor toward me when we were together. It may be that he adopted me in spirit as his son because his adopted children did not satisfy a fatherly need enough. Regards

 

[Greatest I am]

My brother took to him one of the blue LED flashlights that I was giving to my friends. A later time when my mom had visited him at a family gathering, she heard him say how he kept the flashlight nearby a lot and liked it so much. She concluded that it was his favorite possession.

He was aware of my doubts about God's existence and though he tried to support belief in God when we privately talked once, I think he felt special kinship because of having similar doubts. He was always very kind in demeanor toward me when we were together. It may be that he adopted me in spirit as his son because his adopted children did not satisfy a fatherly need enough. Regards

Thanks for this.

You made my point by showing your deed and work and his reciproicating with his form of deed.

Do you see it my friend?

You were giving, he was kind. Those are deeds and actions.
Take those away and love you both shared is dead.

Regards
DL

 

[wellwisher]

Faith is done internally, therefore, it is hard to gauge the validity of faith from the outside. We cannot read each others minds to verify. The actor can contort the face to create the illusion of faith. We can fake faith.

Deeds provide an outward and tangible manifestation, so one can equate the action with faith. But even this has its pitfalls, since one can do the same deeds even without faith. The motivation can be something other than faith. If you wish to move up the church ladder your real goal is ambition. You may need to do deeds of faith to satisfy the system. It is easy to fake since people can't read the mind.

As an analogy, the husband can love his wife, but may not say it. Not saying I love you or not showing his love with deeds does not mean he does not love his wife. If buying roses becomes the deed of choice needed to say he loves his wife, we can use this procedure to fake love. The husband can play around, but as long as he buys roses this is love since it is a love deed?

Because you can't read the heart and mind of people both faith and deeds of faith can be faked. But if you assume God can read the mind and heart of human, faith is most important since that is the foundation. Deeds are for humans since this can provide external data to help with their assessment of faith. But this can be faked even without the foundation of faith; castles in the air. The ideal would be both faith and deeds; for god and country.

 

[Greatest I am]

Sure. We can all lie.
That is irrelevant to the questions I posed.

Try speaking to the questions at hand.

Regards
DL

 

[elte]

Thanks for this.

You made my point by showing your deed and work and his reciproicating with his form of deed.

Do you see it my friend?

You were giving, he was kind. Those are deeds and actions.
Take those away and love you both shared is dead.

Regards
DL

What you say is true. It can take very little physical input, but the positiveness of the quality seems to matter a lot. We had never had any negative quality deeds, so the few deeds that we did have had a great positive effect. All the best

 

[elte]

That our physical interaction was so limited and yet our love was that strong seems to reflect the saying that absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Maybe it could be said that love like that isn't real because it hasn't been tested much, if at all.

 

[Greatest I am]

That our physical interaction was so limited and yet our love was that strong seems to reflect the saying that absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Maybe it could be said that love like that isn't real because it hasn't been tested much, if at all.

Perhaps.

Regards
DL

 

[kx000]

Faith will never die, I refuse. That is what faith sounds like. You think death is certain? I say prove it. Try me, meet me in the intersection. Hey, you know what. God tells me I will die, in fact he tells me I have died 31 times. You can't stop me, you don't even have a approach.

 

[kx000]

However, aint no grave.

 

[Greatest I am]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55694664@N03/5181140229

Faith will never die, I refuse. That is what faith sounds like. You think death is certain? I say prove it. Try me, meet me in the intersection. Hey, you know what. God tells me I will die, in fact he tells me I have died 31 times. You can't stop me, you don't even have a approach.

 

[kx000]

Right back at you, schitinsky.