Anthropic principle

[StrangeDays]

I'm reading Hawking's Universe in a Nutshell and he mentions that our universe is fortuitously suited for the emergence of life. For instance, he finds it unlikely that life could evolve in a universe with fewer than or more than 3 spatial dimensions (that's 3 relatively flat dimensions, not curled-up, for you string theorists).

I've never seen facts like this as evidence of intelligent design. I've always felt that fact that we're here to observe the universe trumps the unlikelihood that a given universe will support us, but I've never been able to flesh out that hunch in a satisfactory way. Any help?

 

[Tiassa]

Life is ....

Life is symptomatic of the Universe. Or, to put it another way: the physical universe is essentially a collection of localized manifestations of matter/energy balances subject to what we assert to be laws of nature. At such a level, there is nothing to distinguish a living organism from a star or even from a volcano; any "object" that you can classify as existing is merely what life or a living organism is: a unique arrangement of matter and energy in the Universe.

To me, and this applies both to EBE theory as well as Universal Origin, life is a statistical necessity in the Universe, as opposed to a longshot.

:m:,
Tiassa

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Originally posted by StrangeDays
I'm reading Hawking's Universe in a Nutshell and he mentions that our universe is fortuitously suited for the emergence of life. For instance, he finds it unlikely that life could evolve in a universe with fewer than or more than 3 spatial dimensions (that's 3 relatively flat dimensions, not curled-up, for you string theorists).

That one's next on my reading list.

I've never seen facts like this as evidence of intelligent design. I've always felt that fact that we're here to observe the universe trumps the unlikelihood that a given universe will support us, but I've never been able to flesh out that hunch in a satisfactory way. Any help?

The way I see it, the universe is finely tuned to support life as we know it because we evolved in it. If the universe were different, we would have evolved differently and then marveled about how finely tuned that universe was to life as we knew it. The outcome (life as we know it) is a necessary one given the laws and initial conditions of the universe.

 

[StrangeDays]

Re: Life is ....

Originally posted by tiassa
Life is symptomatic of the Universe. Or, to put it another way: the physical universe is essentially a collection of localized manifestations of matter/energy balances subject to what we assert to be laws of nature. At such a level, there is nothing to distinguish a living organism from a star or even from a volcano; any "object" that you can classify as existing is merely what life or a living organism is: a unique arrangement of matter and energy in the Universe.

To me, and this applies both to EBE theory as well as Universal Origin, life is a statistical necessity in the Universe, as opposed to a longshot.

:m:,
Tiassa

Thanks Tiassa. It seems that there's an huge objective difference between the complexity that we find on this planet and what we observe elsewhere in the universe. Likewise, it seems that the lumpiness of our universe is objectively and qualitatively different from what would emerge from a universe with different laws.

In order to support complexity, the universe must have laws that toe the line between too much order and too much chaos. The question is whether such laws and initial conditions are likely or not. Is it possible that all possible universes "exist", but only those that give birth to intelligent observers end up being observed? There's no way of knowing, but if true, it would make the existence of life pretty ho-hum.

Now I'm rambling. I'm outta here.

 

[drnihili]

The fine tuning argument is fatally flawed in a number of ways.

First, claims that life could not have existed under other circumstance are utterly baseless. At best we can say that our specific type of life could not have existed. But the possibility that some unimagined type of life would instead occur cannot be quantified, much less ruled out.

But putting that aside and granting for the moment that had the initial conditions been one iota different, then no life could have existed, it is a mistake to think this shows any evidence whatsoever of intention.

The mere fact that an unlikely event occurs is not generally a reason to think that the event requires explanation. Every time someone wins the lottery a terribly unlikely event occurs. But the unlikelihood of John Doe's winning the lottery is not by itself a reason to suspect him of cheating. It is true of course that if the initial conditions of the drawing had been minutely different, then someone else would have won. But that is not by itself a reason to suspect that the game is rigged.

 

[Greco]

Infinite number of observed universes

The many universes theory is quite imteresting. Some universes give rise to observers and some dont. How many observed universes have occured? One , 10, millions, an infinite number?

If we assume an infinite number then an infinite number of observed universes have occured including an infinite number of universes that included men on earth then we can assume that each of us has existed an infinite number of times and I have written this post an infinite times before.

I'm interested to for your responce although I've heard it before. lol