Another proof that the Christian God cannot exist

S

Sonoma

Registered Member
I am new to these forums, so let me tell you how I arrived. I have a Christian friend who I want to help. Therefore, I looked in Google for proofs that God cannot exist. That led me to this post on sciforums. Which I really like. But as Arto points out, there is probably a way to weasel out of it.

The Google search also yielded this site: GodIsImaginary.com. I especially like Proof #3. So let me put it into the sciforums format and ask what people think:

---------------------

"Answered Prayers" vs. the offering plate: A Paradox

Answered Prayers: The Bible promises that God will answer prayers.
Offering Plate: In church, they pass an offering plate to collect money from mere mortals.
Paradox: Statements or events that have contradictory and inconsistent properties.

Proposal:

Christianity cannot claim that God answers prayers, and also claim that they need money by passing an offering plate around during a church service. The claims form a paradox, a falsehood.

Reasoning:

The Bible claims in many places that God answers prayers. For example, Mark 11:24 says: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." See also Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, etc. (or look at this page for a full list).

Therefore, if the elders of the church need money, they should be able to pray to their all-powerful, all-loving God for it, rather than passing the offering plate or accepting donations.

Question:

If God answers prayers, then why don't the elders pray for the money they need and let God provide it directly? For example, God could magically change the church's bank balance, or make gold bars materialize in the church office.

Conclusions:

If God is all-powerful, all-knowing and answers prayers as promised in the Bible, then it is well within his power to give churches all the money they need. And he has promised to answer the prayers of believers.

Therefore, the fact that all churches must pass the offering plate and accept donations proves that God does not answer prayers. If God does not answer prayers, then the Bible is False. Without prayer-answering and the Bible, the Christian God evaporates. He cannot exist.

---------------------

How would a Christian wiggle out of this?

There are many other proofs like this at GodIsImaginary.com. Several of them are fascinating, like this one, because they are so simple.
 
The simple response from the superstitious will be the standard "God works in mysterious ways". Only God knows why he favours the collection plate over direct gold or money materialisation. And it`s not for US to question! Heh.
 
Not only that, the preacher may be a pedophile! ;) So god abstain from helping this guy out since he already helps himself on the children of the congregation. Can't have it your cake and eat it too, you know. LOL
 
Therefore, if the elders of the church need money, they should be able to pray to their all-powerful, all-loving God for it, rather than passing the offering plate or accepting donations.
Click to expand...

Yes, and more than likely, they get all the money they need. But a man of God or not, we all do live in reality. I don't believe any of them will expect money to just zap up when they pray for it. Prayer doesn't mean it will be zapped up by God but means it will be given as needed or donated by others who have been blessed by God and feel they should do their part in giving to the church in order to help spread God's message.
 
>Prayer doesn't mean it will be zapped up by God but
>means it will be given as needed or donated by others
>who have been blessed by God and feel they should
>do their part in giving to the church in order to help
>spread God's message.

That's fascinating. So what you seem to be saying is that, in a Christian's mind, God DOES reach down onto earth and miraculously cure cancer. And if an individual Christian prays for money, God DOES reach down and cause him to win the lottery or find a $100 bill on the street or get an unexpected tax refund check. But if the elders of a church pray for money, God's only answer comes through a collection plate. Is that correct?
 
I am not a pure Christian, different beliefs. I can't speak for them fully. I can only fully speak for what I myself believe. Therefore I can't reply what goes on in you typical Christian's mind. God works through the power of the mind but if you read my other posts, you would know I view selfish prayers for riches and other things folly.
 
The Churches take money from the naive to perpetuate the cycle of control and power. It`s THAT simple. They build opulent buildings to the glory of their god. As if a omnipotent being would be swayed by bricks. But then the same dude did kinda like the smell of burning flesh. So, hey, you never can tell.
 
Dig! deep in your pockets, and remember we rather have the kind that folds, instead of the kind that jingles.

Bless the giver, for he has provided us with the house of our lord, "back of the basterd's mind" And for the hooker tonight, the car payment, and my new backyard swiming pool.
 
Sonoma said:
That's fascinating. So what you seem to be saying is that, in a Christian's mind, God DOES reach down onto earth and miraculously cure cancer. And if an individual Christian prays for money, God DOES reach down and cause him to win the lottery or find a $100 bill on the street or get an unexpected tax refund check.
Click to expand...

"Mark 11:24 says: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

You could interpret that as a blank cheque for anything you want and a promise that Santa Claus will deliver - however, I don't think that can be what was meant. I have to say, I prefer the Buddhist approach to prayer, where it is primarily to focus the mind and develop that inner state of mindfulness. In Christian mysticism, prayer (often silent) is to "draw near to God" rather than pull strings and win the lottery.

James 4:3 “You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.”

I don't believe I can cure disease by prayer, so I don't pray specifically for that. However, by "handing over" impossible situations in prayer, I have been suprised by the results. At the very least, feeling that they are out of my hands is a huge release.

Sonoma said:
But if the elders of a church pray for money, God's only answer comes through a collection plate. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

We have to be sincere and do our bit too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top