An Experiment To Look For The Physical Soul

Reiku

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If consciousness has an energy and a soul, this energy and soul will be in a ground state; the increase of knowledge is an increase of entropy, and this is show we either (come to remember an outcome), or if you like, (the gaining of knowledge from the outside) - and this all requires the presence of an energy, since energy and time are closely related... In fact, without either, the other would cease to exist. Since consciousness requires a physical coil to become independent in thought, and since matter is somehow the same thing as its diffused cousin (energy), it's not so difficult to understand that consciousness too requires energy.

An atom will radiate, dissipate or transfer energy - but energy cannot at any time disappear: This is because of the conservation law of matter-energy - the firs law of thermodynamics. The energy of consciousness shouldn't be any different to the energy of an atom; its electronic inhabitant.

The electromagnetic field may well intimately interact with the field of consciousness, as electromagnetic forces carry information and self around the body according to a physician called Charon. Tracking the field of consciousness might be difficult however, because we are not sure what it consists of. It might be however, made up of electromagnetic waves, as found in Biofields within matter... perhaps using biomagnetites...??

If 'life' creates this field of consciousness, then we should expect a change in death - the probable departure of energy or even perhaps a soul: The energy of consciousness must 'move out' of the physical coil it once inhabited, and it can only do this by either radiating, dissipating or by transferal. The energy source, or soul of a human being at death, cannot spontaneously flow into the body of another. This has simularistic overtones to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that heat cannot spontaneously flow from one body into a warmer body.

Even though this might be just another fancy way of describing consciousness, we cannot fail to see that if it has an energy, it must follow similar rules to thermodynamics, if it is a physical energy. For a while, i was could not make up my mind whether the energy of consciousness was a factor of a physical field, or a by-product of a virtual field. In any case, i now believe it is both, due to the connections between matter-energy and time-awareness. I am simply applying quantum rules in places not normally considered it can be applied.

If conscious energy radiates from the body at the point of death, we might be able to measure this energy, using resonance scanners. If it dissipates, we might be able to measure a weight of difference within the dead corpse - (in fact, this idea has already been used extensively by a Dr. David Jones concerning the physical soul) - and if the energy transfer’s, we would need to ask exactly where it is being transmitted. Some might opt. for the spiritual answer, by involving a process of rebirth - (the co-called afterlife existence).

If the energy of consciousness is not a physical force, it would be very difficult, if not, impossible to suggest thoughts on its nature after death. There would be absolutely no way to tell whether it would abide to the conventional laws of thermodynamics; though, the idea would in itself be consistent with quantum mechanical interpretations, since everything must follow quantum rules. However, as we have seen throughout physics, not every cornerstone principle is necessarily ''kept'' by the presence of consciousness, such as David Z. Albert's discovery of 'secret knowledge', which states we can be aware of our own positions and paths simultaneously, defying the classical boundaries of the uncertainty principle - or also known as 'the principle of indeterminism.'

Perhaps one day we might be able to detect the presence of a physical force leaving the body at death > otherwise, then consciousness exist soley a non-physical force, and is bound by the matter in inhabits. Something quite sad and depressing arises from this chain of thought; after all, the idea we continue after death is comforting and reassuring...

Of course, this all intrically depends on whether consciousness has a soul, and whether it is physical. I have already provided a sound reason why consciousness would require an energy... Now we must consider arguements for a soul, physical and non-physical...

Reiku :m:
 
I don't believe anyone is taking this seriously. I can understand why, it is afterall a very frustrating area of science. Just for the sake of the thread, i'll tell you a theory devised by Dr. Fred Alan Wolf in his fantastic book ''The Spiritual Universe...''

He believes there is a profound relationship between the virtual and real space. He sees the soul as being made up of the virtual spacetimes properties of negative, spin, and materialistic quantum particles. Remember, virtual particles, don't really have any of these real qualities negative energy, spin or even mass... but it certainly has the potential too. For a virtual particle to become real, it quite literally needs to ''pop'' out of the vacuum. But because it is still embedded as a virtual entity in the vacuum, or as he has called it, 'a heavenly abode,' Dr. Wolf sees interesting connections between real matter - the stuff we are made of, and all this heavenly stuff.
The Dirac Sea is a perfect example. An electron actually moves at light speed... but when observed, it goes no where near lightspeed. This is because the electron was being bombarded by the presence of an infinite sea of negative electron particles. The sea would make the electron move at a zig-zagged path through spacetime - so whilst the electron was real, it was still being effected by the virtual negative energy.
Dr. Wolf believes that the soul is found in the vacuum, made up of negative charged particle, intimately connected to the particles of the body.
For a while, scientists considered this to be proof of the soul, but Fred since publishing the book, has decided it was not food of proof.
 
I prefer to tackle questions about geist vis-à-vis self and philosophy—that is, my self, as I leisurely muse. Hence a more personal, presentable, magnetic connection. Science is all very well and dandy, and may be able to "figure things out objectively"… but in the end it's all dead meat, an empty shell, and is quite unpalatable: science, à la philosophy, cannot spearhead the involvement of goals.
 
Ok... Not quite the response i was tackling for, but a response nonetheless. I also deal in subjects such as philosophy, self and vis-à-vis... The last one i would particularate as the phenomenon of love... But is it all the crem-de-la-crem? Should we not have a scientific and perhaps technical overview of everything... or at least, things we can come to know?
 
Ok... Not quite the response i was tackling for, but a response nonetheless. I also deal in subjects such as philosophy, self and vis-à-vis... The last one i would particularate as the phenomenon of love... But is it all the crem-de-la-crem? Should we not have a scientific and perhaps technical overview of everything... or at least, things we can come to know?
Of course you can—and I'm not suggesting that a scientific approach to philosophical questions is invalid, but that an integrative synergy—a dynamism—involving the creative self and the experience of animate circumstance without direct participation is a bit flat to the artistic mind. Hence this certain mindset will not bother to consider a detached, scientifically based question. I mean, I for one don't care much to muse over the anonymity of atoms that enfold my thoughts, or whether or not those atoms are responsible for an energy source entitled "soul". If I have identity, so then too does those atoms? Or is the universe projecting? And if so…

Anyway, don't mind me; I'm just musing.
 
Atoms may not have identity as in self, but they are certainly realized as a self-reflecting phenomena when clustered together so that consciousness might arise. As for ''is the universe projecting...'' i would say yes... but i have no proof of that.
 
If conscious energy radiates from the body at the point of death, we might be able to measure this energy, using resonance scanners.
The energy the brain uses is chemical and heat energy. It does dissapate from the body after death-eventually.


If it dissipates, we might be able to measure a weight of difference within the dead corpse.
False. It's been tried and nothing happens. Losing heat doesn't mean you lose mass.

The brain may indeed use some form of wave mechanism, but since it appears so dependent on existing brian conditions, temperature, oxygen, a delicate balance of chemistry, it is unlikely that it would exist apart from the brain.
 
False. It's been tried and nothing happens. Losing heat doesn't mean you lose mass.

The brain may indeed use some form of wave mechanism, but since it appears so dependent on existing brain conditions, temperature, oxygen, a delicate balance of chemistry, it is unlikely that it would exist apart from the brain.

Indeed the analogy of a computers logic gateways gives rise to that point, without the gateways there is no pathways of predefined resistance for the 1/0's to travel, no pathways equals no working computer.

The same goes for the brain, without the hardware (Neurological structure and chemical reactions including their reaction in regards to thermal dynamics)
there is no way to encapsulate any communication, so in essence you fizzle out of existence.

I'm suprised there is no mention of R. Penrose's theory since he did some research which is obviously speculative for a few books about what consciousness actually is.

In essence 'The Soul' doesn't exist, but 'Consciousness' does (at least while living), so are they one in the same?
 
''I'm suprised there is no mention of R. Penrose's theory since he did some research which is obviously speculative for a few books about what consciousness actually is.

In essence 'The Soul' doesn't exist, but 'Consciousness' does (at least while living), so are they one in the same?''

hear hear...


,,, but... Penrose is oxymoronic paradox... He will spend most of his life trying to solve hyperdimensionality yet whilst admitting that quantum theory could not explain consciousness. I don't agree with his contentions.
 
Well, a somewhat more insightful observance in my opinion from Nietzsche:

Consciousness is the last and latest development of the organic, and consequently also the most unfinished and least powerful of these developments. Innumerable mistakes originate out of consciousness, which "in spite of fate", cause a man or an animal to break down earlier than might be necessary. If the conserving bond of the instincts were not very much more powerful, it would not generally serve as a regulator [...] without the former (instinct) there would long ago have been nothing more of the latter! [...] Consciousness is regarded as a fixed, given magnitude. Its growth and intermittences are denied! [...]

from The Joyful Wisdom aka The Gay Science


An interesting side door, that: consciousness hitting the cosmic scene much later on during the course of our own planetary evolution; and instinct coming (and continuing) very much before then.
 
If the soul is physical, what's the point in calling it a soul ?
Being somewhat of a Romanticist (not always an advantage in this day and age), could you describe the Wind as having a physical presence? I always found the Wind to be extremely strange—it's there, I feel it; but it's not, I can't see it. —Wind being a symbol for spirit...
 
Being somewhat of a Romanticist (not always an advantage in this day and age), could you describe the Wind as having a physical presence? I always found the Wind to be extremely strange—it's there, I feel it; but it's not, I can't see it. —Wind being a symbol for spirit...

Wind has a psychical presence, it's a mixture of gases in motion :shrug:
 
'There is no world at large - only a description of the world which
we have learned to visualize and take for granted. We live in a
bubble, the bubble of our perception and what we witness on its
round walls is our own reflection.'
Don Juan - from Carlos Castaneda



We manifest external reality through our interpretations made in the internal world, and unravel and encapsulate its mysterious pages as it unfolds around us, like some intricate dubious murder mystery - without us, in effect, the universe would be devoid of any such meaning, thus if all experience, all emotion and every thought can be pin-pointed to the internal world of awareness and perception, then consciousness is next to being trapped in a lucid dream, in which none of us can awake from and which the laws of the universe cannot escape... the lie that is the most terrifying in physics, is the truth about the world of consciousness.

Reiku
 
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