Amino Acid Sysnthesis

Tristan

Leave your World Behind
Valued Senior Member
Amino Acid Synthesis

Is it possible, for me (a high school junior taking AP Biology), to get the right equipment at reasonable price to sysntesis amino acids or at least simple organic compounds. As I understood it, lightning was simulated in side a box that contained gases that were thought to exist on primordial earth. Then, when they stopped, there was a primordial soup of amino acids and organic compouds.

Im sure im over simplfying the matter but still.

And if not, what is a cool, feasible research project I could do being a junior in a AP Bio class that hasnt already been done a thousand times before.


Thanks
T
 
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Spurious: Advanced Placement.

Tristan: I doubt it. I think it would be quite expensive to do, and most schools wouldn't have the budget for it. I will get back to you on some cool experiments, and I'm sure others can throw some out there as well (I have class in like, 10 minutes).
 
Q: so can I make the blood run up the walls?
A: I don't see why not.

if your school has the right equipment (the right glassware, electrods, heaters, a week or two of undisturbed time, water, methane, ammonia and hydrogen gas) then yes you can replicate the experiment of Miller & Urey.
 
Do you know of a source where I could get the information to learn what I need to get and what not?

And Yes, we have heaters, Im sure electrodes wont be a problem, as they are rather cheap or easy to make (I think), and time is not an issue... This is a research project that we have to do for lots of points.
 
Ill answer my own question (from http://exobio.ucsd.edu/Space_Sciences/OOL.htm). :mad:

"We get a lot of questions from students (please see the answer!):

Q) Hi, We are two high school students who are about to do a special work in chemistry. Our work will be to try to remake Stanley Miller's prebiotic experiment from the 1950s when he created the amino-acids. We would be very grateful if you could send us a description of the experiment so that we will be able to remake it.
Q) I'm a student of the 10th year and I and my friends are interested in recreating Stanley Miller's experiment but we don't know the proportions of the gases and the time taken by the experiment.
Q) We are a group of school students, and we would like to do the Stanley Miller experiment on the pre-biotic synthesis of life. One of our problems is safety. We have read that it can blow up with the lab and to avoid that we would like to know what procedures we must follow so that the experience comes out to be a success. Also about security we want to be informed about the proportions of the gases that we must use. Finally I'd like you to be as quick as possible as the school year is about to end. [This latter is a good way to get no answer at all...]
Q) We want to redo Dr. Miller's prebiotic experiment from the 1950s when he created the amino-acids. We would like a description of the experiment so that we can to remake it. We know that the experiment is very dangerous, but we have contact to experts in the area of making glass constructions.
Q) I'm interested in your work and studies about the origins of life on earth. I'm trying to recreate your experiment on synthesis of amino acids by electric discharge. that I can get access to the specific proportions and details of your experiment. I also would like to know if there has been anything new about this important subject.
Q) I am contemplating recreating Miller's experiment for my Senior Thesis, and Synthesis Lab. I need to find out what equipment was used. The dept. wants to find out if the college has the equipment needed for this.
A) I would caution you against trying the experiment in a standard classroom lab. If there is a leak in the glass line you will have made not amino acids but a several thousand dollar glass pipe bomb. A spark discharge experiment requires experience with glass vacuum manifolds, compressed gasses, and anoxic gas transfers. In addition, you will need the glassware (>$1000) and electrical equipment with which to conduct the experiment and the analytical equipment and reagents to analyze the products. (There is little point in going through all the effort of doing the experiment if you cannot determine the chemical results.) If you posses all of these things I recommend you start with the papers listed below (there may many others out there, however, more suited to your specific scientific question so you may need to search further). If you are hungry for an origin of life science project, take a look at the next question for ideas. We strongly discourage attempts to reproduce this experiment at the high-school level and will therefore not furnish any details.
"
 
Well I'll be dammed you can kill your self with the thing. :D

Ok then use UV, its going to take you longer (perhaps much much longer) but all you need is a hot sealed jar or air tight metal container with water, methane, ammonia and hydrogen. Your going to need the UV light source on the inside of the jar (glass will absorb UV, you do not have the money for UV transparent materials. And if there is a spark or air leak… well it is less likely it will explode. Send the product to a university all you need is connections with a university biochem student with access to a mass spectrometer and NMR and some time to burn (about a hour) or wait that’s me. ;)
 
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Haha cool. But I havent given up yet. Even though this particular person said "bad idea", im still doing some research on the subject. Engineering the actual contraption is the hardest part, from there its home free. But Im still going to pursue the subject. Im not giving up yet! Why? Because it would be absolutely fricken awesome if I did it.

But Ill definately take your idea into consideration.... Let the games begin!!!!

Later
T :D

P.S. The original way the products of the reaction were analyzed was by using paper chromatography... I can do that... But is there any more to it that just using the paper? Do I then have to use the mass spec. and whatnot?
 
So, if by chance I actually conduct the experiement and am successful, you'd be willing to analyze my primordial goo for me?

Later
T:)
 
No problem :) seriously.

I’ll send the result back to you… your going to have to interpret it though,
Were talking about graphs result from a mass spec, NMR H, NMR C13 hey we have an IR spectrometer to! Now you see why its no problem I just print out the data, you figure it from there. :D
doktor2-52.gif

here is a good example of NMR H results, can you figure out what its is? Also this is a pure sample your going to have at least 19 detectable compounds if it works: formic acid will most likely be the most common, followed by Glycine and Glycolic acid, everything else will be in the 1%, based on Miller & Urey results. I advice you study up on this in detail! If you pull it off you are so going to get a scholarship to any science college in the country!!!
 
Oh god... Now im even more determined to make this work! The biggest problem now is Moooolah ($)... We shall see if the company I contacted will work with me because its for school...

:):)

Later
T

P.S. Just wrote a letter to Stanely Miller, hopefully the response is positive :)
 
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PHASE 1: Find a way to analyze the primordial soup (COMPLETE)
PHASE 2: Find someone with the knowledge of the experiement and know how on how to construct the instrument. (COMPLETE)
PHASE 3: Get funding or donations (Incomplete)

Cha'ching... Hit the jackpot on phase 2. Literally.
:::"Tristan,
It just so happens you hit the jackpot. I'd be glad to help."::::

From someone I got in contact with. (not miller)
 
P.S. Do you have any resources that you suggest to look at so I can interpet the data you send me (if all this goes down of course)?
 
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Well I figured Id try, but the company I emailed can't afford to donate the apparatus. However, I thought I might talk to my biology teacher about a foundation that gives grants outs for science. Its local I believe, and we used it for our DNA labs because we got equipment from case western reserve.

Actually, its not that bad. One guy on the internet had the glassware esimated at $1000+. This company hand-blows their glassware and she said it would be between $250-400 depending on what type of electrodes I decided to get...

So were still in the game... still in the game I say!

Later
T
 
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