ALL christians will go to hell according to the bible !

Green_World

Banned
Banned
Dear Christians:

How can you know for sure you are saved when Jesus himself
made statements declaring you are headed for Hell ?

For Example :

" But I say to you that every one who is angry with his
brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his
brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says,
'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire . " Matthew
5:22

Surely most of us have said bad words now and then ,
therefore according to Jesus , most of us will taste the
Fires of Hell and are not Free from punishment according to
Jesus .

Jesus made several statements implanting uncertainty in the
hearts and minds of his listeners regarding their Salvation.

For Example :

" Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter
the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven . " Matthew 7:21

If Jesus is our Savior , why would he say calling upon him
as 'Lord' on the Day of Judgement will Not Save Us ?

Jesus even told a entire generation that there is No Escape
from Hell for them, and what they have done will be with
them:

"..How can ye escape the damnation of Hell? Wherefore,
behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:
and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them
shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from
city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood
shed upon the earth, from the *blood of Innocent Abel* unto
the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew
between the temple and the altar. *Verily I say unto you,
All these things shall come upon this generation* ." Mt
23:33-36

How can a Christian be sure they are saved when Jesus
repeatedly says that with a sinning eye or a sinning hand ,
We Will Go to Hell , Jesus even offers a remedy by
suggesting we cut off our hand or pluck out our eye to avoid
Hell , this certainly leaves the listeners Unsure if they
will go to Hell or not unless they take drastic measures :

" And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better
for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than
having two eyes to be cast into hell fire " Mark 9:47

" And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for
thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go
into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched " Mark
9:43

Jesus even says you will be cast into Hell if you do not
behave in accordance with the Will of God :

" And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees:
therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is
hewn down, and cast into the fire. " Matthew 3:10

" Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn
down, and cast into the fire. " Matthew 7:19

How many Christians live undisciplined lives , producing bad
fruit and expecting Jesus will save them ? How can they be
sure when Jesus makes it perfectly clear they will go to
Hell ?

Jesus is saying Every Sinner will be cast into the Fire .

Where does Jesus say every sinner will be saved through the
blood of Jesus ?

Even at the Supper table , Jesus said his blood is shed for
_many_ not , all .

It even seems as though Jesus came to Warn us about Hell
rather than save us from Hell, Jesus came to give us
Uncertainty of our Salvation:

" I have come to cast a fire on the earth; and what will I
if already it has been kindled? " Luke 12:49

Jesus also directly warns that if you do not obey him, you
will be thrown into Hell:

" Unless any one abide in me he is cast out as the branch,
and is dried up; and they gather them and cast them into the
fire, and they are burned. " John 15:6 (also John 5:24)

According to the Gospel, it is possible to fall out of the Christian faith through sin;

"For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God's light; they tasted heaven's gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; they knew from experience that God's word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

and that Christians are not fully saved until they enter the heavenly kingdom ( 1 Peter 1:4-5)

Even in the Old Testament , there is Absolute Uncertainty if
we will go to Hell or not :

There is a prediction in Psalms that the Sinners will go to
Hell, similar to what Jesus says:

"The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the (nations)
that forget God." Ps 9:17

Does this include all with in the evil nations such as
Germany in WW!! ? or America during Hiroshima etc.. ?

In Isaiah which we assume predicted Jesus , also predicts
Hell will take even the people who are boastful :

" Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth
without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and
their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it ."
Isaiah 5:14

In conclusion , "Let him who thinks he stands take care lest he fall" (1 Corinthians 10:12).

We see that Jesus did not come to remove
_all_ sin, but in fact to warn us of Hell and assist us in
receiving forgiveness, but certainly not removing our
responsibility to obey the commandments "otherwise we will
be thrown into Hell" as Jesus continuously warned.

Even at the sacrifice where the crucifixion of Jesus was
supposedly a action to forgive the human race, why would
Jesus ask God "Forgive them fore they know not what they do"
if the crucifixion was indeed the Ultimate sacrifice ? Why
would Jesus need to ask God to forgive us if the assumed
shedding of Jesus's blood was in fact a means of atonement ?

Unless perhaps the crucifixion was not a ultimate method of
forgiveness and in fact we are very much in danger of Hell
as it is written in the Old Testament and the Gospel of
Jesus .

How then can we be saved if we are still in danger of the
Hell Fire as Jesus warns ?

Allah (which means - God - in the Semitic Arabic language)
gives us many clear signs in the Holy Quran to assure us we will
be saved , Allah clarifies the Favors bestowed upon us and
in return Allah only asks you believe in the Day of
Judgement , in those Allah sent to us (including Jesus) and
follow the teachings of the Quran:

'Those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and
establish regular prayers and regular charity, will have
their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor
shall they grieve . " {Translation of the Holy Quran 2:277}
 
Damn green world....You're too green......
Let's get some dirt on you....;)

Does not the Quran that I hope you believe in says:

The Cow
[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in god and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
The Dinner Table
[5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in god and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

God didn't say in the koran in this statement that christians must be muslims to be saved....they can stay christians if they wish or jews or monkeys and god will judge between them as he please... How do you know that a christian, jew, ect...don't believe in god and the hereafter??

I always wondered about Sabians....who are the sabians???
 
Well Jesus doesn't strike me as a very nice guy. :(
I wouldn't want this guy to be my saviour.
Again this proves that the Bible (and therefore Christianity) teaches mostly fear and not only love.


heflores-

Don't change the subject.


*I just got a bit of an immage, millions and millions of people marching in line kicking their legs high infront of them chanting:
'Lieber Der Führer! Lieber Jesus! Lieber Der Führer! Lieber Jesus! Heil Jesus! Heil Jesus!'
*
 
[/quote]
" Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter
the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven . " Matthew 7:21
[/quote]

What Jesus meant here was that some people will SAY they are chrstians, but in truth are not, they have not accepted Christ as their saviour so no matter how much they 'talk the talk' they aren't 'walking the walk' so they wont go to heaven (they're faking it)
 
Market-share

I might point to this badly-written topic of mine in which I'm learning from Christians that it's about market-share. While I understand, for instance, the notion that a "true Christian" cannot commit certain sins (for a "true Christian" would inherently conduct himself or herself otherwise), it would seem to me that Judgment Day will not be a time of rejoice for most who purport themselves to be Christian.

A sampling from that topic:
- Is there a "line" that should not be crossed? (e.g. Daily minor transgressions are forgivable, but mass murder isn't?

No. Everything is forgiven.

- So who goes to hell? Is it really about market-share and brand recognition? The other day, a couple counties over, some guy broke into a house and sexually assaulted children. Of course, if he believes Jesus will save him, Jesus will.

If he repents and proves his repentance, yes, he might be saved.

- Are all forgiven?

It depends upon what you mean by "all". All whose name is in the Book of Life will be forgiven. Those who don't won't be. However, it isn't because they are not eligible for forgiveness, but they have rejected it

- When your time in this life is over, and God calls you home to stand before His judgment, what will your excuse be?

... No excuse. Anyone can fool God. And I, personally, wouldn't even need to excuse myself if that was possible.

... None

... I expect that I won't be answering the judge. Jesus will be in my place.
It's not a complete representatin of the topic, but it seems a number of people expect to be redeemed.

And, in light of the topic post, it's worth noting that someone advised me, Tiassa, I don't know where you find that God tortures those who go to hell. I'd like to know where you get this interesting piece of dogma from.

Mere notes ... I don't know if I should say, "Don't say I didn't warn you," or something else. I just figured I'd inject some of those strange sentiments into a debate that seems relevant.

It's all market-share. Apparently, to believe you're saved is enough, and it doesn't matter what else. I find such a scheme odd, to say the least, and even offensive depending on the details, but ... them's Christians for ye.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Originally posted by heflores
Damn green world....You're too green......
Let's get some dirt on you....;)

Does not the Quran that I hope you believe in says:

The Cow
[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in god and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
The Dinner Table
[5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in god and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

God didn't say in the koran in this statement that christians must be muslims to be saved....they can stay christians if they wish or jews or monkeys and god will judge between them as he please... How do you know that a christian, jew, ect...don't believe in god and the hereafter??

I always wondered about Sabians....who are the sabians???

VERY GOOD POINT, the christians and jews Allah almighty refered to in this majestic surahs are the early ones who believed in the TRUE message of jesus the PROPHET and not the GOD.

The Sabians are those who believe in the oneness of ALLAH but they dont belong to Islam or christianity or Judaism.
 
Re: Market-share

Originally posted by tiassa
I might point to this badly-written topic of mine in which I'm learning from Christians that it's about market-share. While I understand, for instance, the notion that a "true Christian" cannot commit certain sins (for a "true Christian" would inherently conduct himself or herself otherwise), it would seem to me that Judgment Day will not be a time of rejoice for most who purport themselves to be Christian.

A sampling from that topic:[/font]It's not a complete representatin of the topic, but it seems a number of people expect to be redeemed.

And, in light of the topic post, it's worth noting that someone advised me, Tiassa, I don't know where you find that God tortures those who go to hell. I'd like to know where you get this interesting piece of dogma from.

Mere notes ... I don't know if I should say, "Don't say I didn't warn you," or something else. I just figured I'd inject some of those strange sentiments into a debate that seems relevant.

It's all market-share. Apparently, to believe you're saved is enough, and it doesn't matter what else. I find such a scheme odd, to say the least, and even offensive depending on the details, but ... them's Christians for ye.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Many of the quoted peices are confusing at best so I can see where things are getting messed up!

The basic idea is......

You accept that Jesus paid for your sins for you, repent (say you're sorry and work to not do it again) and live for Him......then you go to heaven

and yes that can be offensive but the truth often is!
 
In Reply to Green World's Post - I Say, "Only God Knows for Sure"

Your post brings to light some very interesting and understandable arguments in support of your stating that "All Christians Will Go to Hell According to the Bible." However, ultimately ONLY God knows for sure whom will inherit the kingdom of Heaven.

Understand first, that we were all inherently born sinners. And, there is NOT one of us (professing Christian or otherwise) that does not commit sin. If anyone ever states that since they've become a Christian they no longer sin, he or she is a liar...period! Sin will always exist and NO ONE is exempt. Upon making a proclamation of faith, giving Jesus Christ lordship of their life and being 'born-again' (meaning that through the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, the old 'unrepentent' spiritual-self dies, a new 'repentent' spiritual-self is born), the Christian should desire to make changes in their behavior that reflect both recognition of their 'past' sinfuls ways, and also more importantly, seek 'repentence' of them. 'Seeking repentence' requires the Christian to recognize their sin, to ask in sincere, apologetic prayer God's forgiveness of them, and to ask for God's help (through His Holy Spirit) in keeping us from the temptation of repeating them. Now, will the Christian ALWAYS be successful in 'not repeating' the same sins they've already asked forgiveness of? Obviously, NO. Should the Christian continue to ask forgiveness of, and strive to rid his life of the sin he struggles with? Of course, and that in itself spiritually seperates the born-again, 'saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ' Christian from those whom are not. Why would it you ask? Simply because the old 'unrepentent spiritual-self' wouldn't do so. There would be NO Holy Spirit inspired conviction that would lead the person to shamefully ask God for forgiveness once again, and then seek to repent of the sin.

I personally have been a professing Christian for 16 years now. Throughout those 16 years, I have been successful in repenting quickly of some sin, yet have failed at times in repenting quickly enough of others. However, the one constant over the years that I have maintained is the conviction and desire to become as 'sin-free' a Christian man as possible. I do so by constantly guarding and monitoring my thoughts, actions and words for any possible deviation from what the Bible asks and demands of me. Why? Because I want to be a Disciple of Jesus Christ and I literally HATE the fact that at times I 'think, do or say anything' that is displeasing to Him.

We know that ALL men fall short of God's glory. We know that NO man will ever be without sin. However, ONLY God knows the heart of men and He will judge them accordingly. All any Christian can do is 'all he can do' to live as spotless and blameless a life as possible, and in doing so be honoring of the sacrifice that Jesus made to assure His followers salvation.

May God Bless Us All -

~ Disciple of Jesus
 
Deathbed

You accept that Jesus paid for your sins for you, repent (say you're sorry and work to not do it again) and live for Him......then you go to heaven
I just don't see the reason, then, to not just convert on my deathbed and live my last five seconds, five minutes, or whatever, for Jesus. It's a risk against not seeing the bullet coming, but if there really is a God, Jesus, and so forth, I'm already accepted in good standing in Hell.

The bottom line is that even Christians ought to hope that religious visions are hallucinations. Why? Because otherwise I've met both Jesus and Satan face to face, and neither one of them knows what the hell anyone is fighting about.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
From what I have read in the bible it seems like he is a normal cult leader to me :D

well, I was going to criticize you for insulting Jesus...but look you didn't insult him at all. You said

1- Normal (that's a good word)
2- Cult (gathering with certain belief_
3- Leader (that's definetly positive)

So you must love Jesus...you never attributed such good qualities to anyone on this site before.
 
Re: In Reply to Green World's Post - I Say, "Only God Knows for Sure"

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
Your post brings to light some very interesting and understandable arguments in support of your stating that "All Christians Will Go to Hell According to the Bible." However, ultimately ONLY God knows for sure whom will inherit the kingdom of Heaven.

Understand first, that we were all inherently born sinners. And, there is NOT one of us (professing Christian or otherwise) that does not commit sin. If anyone ever states that since they've become a Christian they no longer sin, he or she is a liar...period!
===========================

Thank you for your thoughtful response, You gained my utmost respect by telling the truth.

During my debate with christian messionaries, they all told me they are going to heaven(regardless of their sins) and me because I am Muslim will go to hell !!!

I told them as Muslims, we dont know who will go to heaven, it depends on your work in this life and your faith in ALLAH(arabic word for God).

Thank you again for assuring my thoughts.

Your brother in God:
Green_world.
 
Re: Deathbed

Originally posted by tiassa
I just don't see the reason, then, to not just convert on my deathbed and live my last five seconds, five minutes, or whatever, for Jesus. It's a risk against not seeing the bullet coming, but if there really is a God, Jesus, and so forth, I'm already accepted in good standing in Hell.

The bottom line is that even Christians ought to hope that religious visions are hallucinations. Why? Because otherwise I've met both Jesus and Satan face to face, and neither one of them knows what the hell anyone is fighting about.


Greetings Tiassa -

While looking here at the newest posted messages, yours really caught my eye since it brings to question what I refer to as "Foxhole Conversions." This tag has been applied to those 'conversions to Christianity' that occur when an individual is facing imminent mortality, fears for their life and/or realizes he or she may not have another opportunity to convert, for whatever the reason.

Believe me when I say, that the question amongst Christians as to whether or not there is validity in this type of conversion has been passed down through the ages. However, I believe that in reality, NO ONE here will really ever know if a person had truly made a sincere, personal decision to accept Jesus Christ as Lord of their life, regardless of how much time they had remaining. Once again, ONLY GOD knows for sure and an attempt on our behalf to 'make that call' is purely speculative.

You see, I've been a Christian long enough that if I chose to, I could make some pretty educated opinions as to whether or not someone has 'truly' made a decision to be a follower of Jesus Christ. Subsequently, I WONT DO THAT since I am NOT God and therfore I do NOT know what has sincerely happened in the heart of any individual, professing Christian or not. I'm sure that you have heard or read the Scripture passage that states, "they will know we are Christians by our love," and that you've come to the conclusion that some or possibly many professing Chrisitans you've known or associated with DO NOT love their fellow man as much as the non-Christian people you may know. If that is the case, know that throughout the past 16 years of being a Christian, I too have seen the same and it perplexes and bothers me to no end. I would be a bold-faced liar if I said that Christians are immune from feeling and expressing hatred; commiting spousal abuse and child-abuse; being involved in drug and/or alcohol abuse, practicing sexual-immorality, etc. We are NOT immune and these things happen with far too great regularity. In my opinion, this is due to some professing Christian's mistake of first, passing undue judgement on others. Secondly, the belief that it can't or won't happen to them. And lastly, that becoming a Christian was or is some type of innaculation against sin, including all the very worst varieties. Ultimately and so very unfortunately, the message that such unloving, sinful and defeating behaivors send to the non-Christian peoples of this world is exactly why Christianity is far too often viewed the way it is.

In conclusion, I personally believe that as I have done and do with regularity, many professing Christians need to take inventory of their own actions, attitudes and behaviors, then measure them carefully and honestly to the high-standards as given to us in the Bible, BEFORE making ANY attempts to share the message of Jesus Christ with others. Hypocrisy (both perceived and real) amongst its members has been the biggest enemy of Christianity and will continue to be, unless we as Christians honestly face the hard truths as spoken by non-Christians in regard to 'far-to-prevelent' un-Godly and non-Christ like behavior. If most Christians did indeed truly act as 'Disciples (or followers) of Jesus Christ' should, then questions of valid "deathbed" or "foxhole conversions" might be much easier to answer....for all of us.

~ Disciple of Jesus
 
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