Agnosticism & Unconditional Love

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notme2000

The Art Of Fact
Registered Senior Member
I would post this thread in General Philosophy, but it's mainly directed at agnostics, so it's here in religion.

Agnosticism is realizing you can't trust your own judgement. No matter how much you believe something, you can be wrong... I myself am agnostic. For fellow agnostics, what's your outlook on unconditional love? I don't believe in it... What if you realize he/she is not for you, or that one of you have changed, etc?

I would imagine it's harder for agnostics to commit because they are constantly questioning their own emotions... At least that's how it is for me...
 
I would imagine it's harder for agnostics to commit because they are constantly questioning their own emotions... At least that's how it is for me...
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sounds very familiar.

it makes me hesitate with things. I question things, especially emotions.
 
me

isnt unconditional lov wen u lov somone, and nomatter how bad they treat u or try 2 kill u, u still lov them and keep coming bak rite?
 
I think that you may be able to love someone unconditionaly, momentarily while on E. :p
Otherwise nope, probably not, I am too busy evaluating myself.
 
Re: me

Originally posted by cool skill
isnt unconditional lov wen u lov somone, and nomatter how bad they treat u or try 2 kill u, u still lov them and keep coming bak rite?
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have you contemplate how truly trying it is when someone repeatedly tries to kills you or hurt you or not care about you?

I would have I have experienced something very close to unconditional love. What I refer to as "true love" twice, and in competely different kind of ways. Maybe three times... hm... Regardless, the point is after years of reflection I realized that all of them were NOT conditionless. For instance the first (the one I waffled on) was a case where I would not have loved her had she stopped loving me, but that was really the only condition. Shit, it gets hard to determine what 'love' is over a long time of separation from someone. I mean, what if the girl I was in "true love" with the first time doesn't exist anymore? Isn't our love based on the idea that she exists? Idententity is fluid, changing with the moment. It changes more over years. Did I love you when? Do I still? When is that? See what I mean? It's not what it seems.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but there's love other than your wannabe boyf/girlf. Family love? Best friend love? That's not conditional for me. If we have a fight and someone insults me, I won't stop loving them for it. And also as cool skill said, even if they treated me badly, I'd still love them.

Not sure if I'm agnostic, but it's unconditional love, but only formed unwillingly almost - comes from spending so much times together, you just come to love that person without realising it.
 
If we have a fight and someone insults me, I won't stop loving them for it.
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But what if it's just once constant never-ending fight? Eventually you'd fall out of love, no?
 
Notme2000

Agnosticism is realizing you can't trust your own judgement. No matter how much you believe something, you can be wrong...
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No. Agnosticism is trusting implicitly in your own judgement, in your senses and logic. When you boil down all theism and other superstitions, they come down to "our senses can not tell us everything about the universe", which is not far off solipsism. Agnosticism relies on empiricism, the experience of our senses, and logic.

I would imagine it's harder for agnostics to commit because they are constantly questioning their own emotions...
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I don't question my emotions. Nor do I let them lead me around by the nose.
 
Re: Notme2000

Originally posted by Adam
No. Agnosticism is trusting implicitly in your own judgement, in your senses and logic. When you boil down all theism and other superstitions, they come down to "our senses can not tell us everything about the universe", which is not far off solipsism. Agnosticism relies on empiricism, the experience of our senses, and logic.
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While I like the point you're making, I think you've personalized it. Agnostic as any other word can mean a whole slew of different things... even within the boundaries of the definition from whatever dictionary you choose (since most have slightly or majorly different defs). I for instance, to a strong degree, agree with both of you.

I believe that I experience my emotions and that they seem real to me. How then though, can I assert more than that? I cannot reasonable say "they ARE real", I can only assume as such. Assumptions don't and in this case can't be based on empirical evidence, because all evidence is by definition subjective. *shrug* Thoughts?
Originally posted by Adam

I don't question my emotions.
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I'd say you should every once in a while because "questioning everything" is basically the philosophical agenda right?
Originally posted by Adam

Nor do I let them lead me around by the nose.
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I like that. Me too damnit. Oh, but sometimes in other threads it seems that you do a bit. Not to put labels on you, but only to attempt to communicate, your political views often come off to me as "bleeding heart" liberal. I can relate to that because I've felt similarly (but then I realized that there simply is no way to practically apply it, lacking data and cooperation from the other humans which can never be ascertained). I'll just leave it at: It seems to me that "bleeding heart" liberal types ARE led about the nose from their emotions because they try to project their perspective of utopia onto reality, rather than viewing reality for what it is and forming opinion based on that (sorry, I'm being pretty presumptuous.. I'm sure you'll correct me). Oh, and mind you I'm not saying that's bad. In some ways I view it as very noble (though somewhat naive. hmmm.. maybe that's where the good intentions come from that that road to hell is paved with).

I think there's something to that, but maybe I missed something... please enlighten me.
 
Originally posted by notme2000
But what if it's just once constant never-ending fight? Eventually you'd fall out of love, no?
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Give me an example? Because the love is unconditional, by definition, I couldn't only love them in certain conditions. Just because they think differently to me, I will still love them.

Truthseeker, I thought you left? :confused:
 
Example:
Boy and girl fall in love in highschool, "true unconditional love" as they call it. They get married at 20. By 30 the boy is now an abusive drunken man. Could you blame her for falling out of love? If it were unconditional she would continue taking his abuse for ever... (I'm aware some woman DO stay in these situations, but I think that's not because of unconditional love, but weakness, which may be the same thing...)
 
Well, I don't see that as unconditional love. That's love as in attraction - I think a friendship bond would be stronger; that's one I couldn't break. (If a friend started hitting me, I'd see him less etc, but I wouldn't stop loving him)
 
Firefly,

Truthseeker, I thought you left?
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Left...? No... unless you just came back after I've came back in the middle of last year... :D

notme2000,

Women stay in such situations because they fear being alone... at least is the majority...
 
Unconditional Love is attained by shifting the focus inwardly instead of focusing outwardly. Instead of looking to other people and yourself, try to look to Love ITSELF. When you Love people simply because you Love, than you won't see other's imperfections neither your imperfections or "perfections". By focusing on Love Itself you won't judge anyone and will Love everyone unconditionally.
 
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