A Weekend in Chicago

[Michael]

New York Times: A Weekend in Chicago

Three days, 64 people shot, six of them dead: Memorial Day on the streets, and the violence that has engulfed families and neighborhoods.

The Newlywed Game” is on the television. Julia Rhoden, 53, is sitting on her bed, exhausted from another long day at the health care center where she works as a nurse’s aide. There is a loud boom and then another and another. She feels a sting as a bullet enters her back. “I been shot! I been shot!” she cries out to her children in the next room, as blood soaks through the summer dress she wears as a nightgown.

That same night, 15-year-old Veronica Lopez is hit as she rides in a Jeep that is speeding along a waterfront drive. “Babe, they shot me in the stomach,” the girl tells a friend, who later says he covered her body with his own as the gunfire continued.

“Help, I’ve been shot!” another teenager screams as he limps down a darkened street, a bullet having torn through his leg.

It is Friday night in Chicago, and the Memorial Day weekend is just getting started. The Police Department plans to deploy more than a thousand extra officers to deal with the violence they fear will intensify with the unofficial start of summer.

There is no stopping the gunfire, which comes in bursts and waves, interrupting holiday barbecues, igniting gang rivalries, engulfing neighborhoods, blocks, families.

From Friday evening to the end of Monday, 64 people will have been shot in this city of 2.7 million, six of them fatally. In a population made up of nearly equal numbers of whites, blacks and Hispanics, 52 of the shooting victims are black, 11 Hispanic and one white. Eight are women, the rest men. Some 12 people are shot in cars, 11 along city sidewalks, and at least four on home porches.

It is a level of violence that has become the terrifying norm, particularly in predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods on the South and West Sides.

(See link for the rest of the article)

 

[timojin]

New York Times: A Weekend in Chicago

Three days, 64 people shot, six of them dead: Memorial Day on the streets, and the violence that has engulfed families and neighborhoods.

The Newlywed Game” is on the television. Julia Rhoden, 53, is sitting on her bed, exhausted from another long day at the health care center where she works as a nurse’s aide. There is a loud boom and then another and another. She feels a sting as a bullet enters her back. “I been shot! I been shot!” she cries out to her children in the next room, as blood soaks through the summer dress she wears as a nightgown.

That same night, 15-year-old Veronica Lopez is hit as she rides in a Jeep that is speeding along a waterfront drive. “Babe, they shot me in the stomach,” the girl tells a friend, who later says he covered her body with his own as the gunfire continued.

“Help, I’ve been shot!” another teenager screams as he limps down a darkened street, a bullet having torn through his leg.

It is Friday night in Chicago, and the Memorial Day weekend is just getting started. The Police Department plans to deploy more than a thousand extra officers to deal with the violence they fear will intensify with the unofficial start of summer.

There is no stopping the gunfire, which comes in bursts and waves, interrupting holiday barbecues, igniting gang rivalries, engulfing neighborhoods, blocks, families.

From Friday evening to the end of Monday, 64 people will have been shot in this city of 2.7 million, six of them fatally. In a population made up of nearly equal numbers of whites, blacks and Hispanics, 52 of the shooting victims are black, 11 Hispanic and one white. Eight are women, the rest men. Some 12 people are shot in cars, 11 along city sidewalks, and at least four on home porches.

It is a level of violence that has become the terrifying norm, particularly in predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods on the South and West Sides.

(See link for the rest of the article)

If you would be the Mayor what would you do ?

 

[Michael]

If you would be the Mayor what would you do ?

Spend most of my time fund raising. The rest, I'd spend pitching some vague notion of Change You Can Believe In.

Which is why I'd never waste my time and energy running for office. It's a waste of perfectly good time and energy.

 

[Michael]

Only the people of Chraq can change Chraq. And let's face facts, most read at grade level 4 - 6, if at all.

That said, cutting Welfare together with most regulations would probably help. Perhaps together with a local currency. Eliminate all income tax. Oh, and eliminate drugs laws and enforce private property rights.

Or....
Maybe Chiraq is a lost cause?

 

[Michael]

Limited government would greatly help the people of Chicago.

 

[exchemist]

New York Times: A Weekend in Chicago

Three days, 64 people shot, six of them dead: Memorial Day on the streets, and the violence that has engulfed families and neighborhoods.

The Newlywed Game” is on the television. Julia Rhoden, 53, is sitting on her bed, exhausted from another long day at the health care center where she works as a nurse’s aide. There is a loud boom and then another and another. She feels a sting as a bullet enters her back. “I been shot! I been shot!” she cries out to her children in the next room, as blood soaks through the summer dress she wears as a nightgown.

That same night, 15-year-old Veronica Lopez is hit as she rides in a Jeep that is speeding along a waterfront drive. “Babe, they shot me in the stomach,” the girl tells a friend, who later says he covered her body with his own as the gunfire continued.

“Help, I’ve been shot!” another teenager screams as he limps down a darkened street, a bullet having torn through his leg.

It is Friday night in Chicago, and the Memorial Day weekend is just getting started. The Police Department plans to deploy more than a thousand extra officers to deal with the violence they fear will intensify with the unofficial start of summer.

There is no stopping the gunfire, which comes in bursts and waves, interrupting holiday barbecues, igniting gang rivalries, engulfing neighborhoods, blocks, families.

From Friday evening to the end of Monday, 64 people will have been shot in this city of 2.7 million, six of them fatally. In a population made up of nearly equal numbers of whites, blacks and Hispanics, 52 of the shooting victims are black, 11 Hispanic and one white. Eight are women, the rest men. Some 12 people are shot in cars, 11 along city sidewalks, and at least four on home porches.

It is a level of violence that has become the terrifying norm, particularly in predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods on the South and West Sides.

(See link for the rest of the article)

Get rid of the guns!

 

[pjdude1219]

Only the people of Chraq can change Chraq. And let's face facts, most read at grade level 4 - 6, if at all.

That said, cutting Welfare together with most regulations would probably help. Perhaps together with a local currency. Eliminate all income tax. Oh, and eliminate drugs laws and enforce private property rights.

Or....
Maybe Chiraq is a lost cause?

so your solution is taking away people's income? can you name one time in human history where that helped? your ideas are stupid failed ideas. and property rights are enforced. again just because you believe doesn't mean its true.

Get rid of the guns!

won't happen the gun nuts can't allow the cult of the gun to be challenged though your right thats exactly what needs to happen.

 

[Retribution]

Get rid of the guns!

Is that a solution, or merely a bandaid applied when one does not know the nature of the problem?

 

[exchemist]

Is that a solution, or merely a bandaid applied when one does not know the nature of the problem?

It would avoid a great number of unnecessary deaths in the USA.

 

[Retribution]

Yes, undoubtedly.
But again I ask: Is that a solution, or merely a bandaid applied when one does not know the nature of the problem?

 

[timojin]

so your solution is taking away people's income? can you name one time in human history where that helped? your ideas are stupid failed ideas. and property rights are enforced. again just because you believe doesn't mean its true.

won't happen the gun nuts can't allow the cult of the gun to be challenged though your right thats exactly what needs to happen.

Sorry guys Chicago does not have such a bad problem as is portrayed I live in this great city for over 40 years , eventually the gangbangers grow up , we had that problem in the 70 and 80 but they were squashed out or matured in age, and the come peace again.

 

[timojin]

It would avoid a great number of unnecessary deaths in the USA.

I wonder if you pile up nations equivalent 300 million people in European union like Uk , France ,Italy, Spain, Scandinavian nation Belgium , Nederland , and compare crime in the USA. I would not be surprised that crime in the EU would be equivalent or worse.

 

[sideshowbob]

Is that a solution, or merely a bandaid applied when one does not know the nature of the problem?

Do you propose to do a full MRI before prescribing a bandaid?

 

[exchemist]

I wonder if you pile up nations equivalent 300 million people in European union like Uk , France ,Italy, Spain, Scandinavian nation Belgium , Nederland , and compare crime in the USA. I would not be surprised that crime in the EU would be equivalent or worse.

"crime", maybe.

Homicides, definitely not.

 

[iceaura]

That said, cutting Welfare together with most regulations would probably help.

They tried that, in the 90s - with the results you see before you.

Perhaps together with a local currency. Eliminate all income tax.

The people getting shot, and shooting, don't pay much income tax. And they barter quite a bit.

Oh, and eliminate drugs laws and enforce private property rights.

Can't get the drug law discard past the religious, family values, conservative, folks. Private property rights have been of course increasingly emphasized in Chicago since Reagan - the city has been privatizing various functions left and right for decades now. Parking meters, were a recent one.

 

[Michael]

so your solution is taking away people's income? can you name one time in human history where that helped?

Michigan. When welfare was phased out (under Clinton) this correlated with one of the largest job creation programs for the poor in recent American history. Essentially, once people realize they were not going to get welfare, they went out and found work. I knew two people in my immediate family who hadn't worked - ever (in their 40's). The week they lost their welfare was the week they took jobs at local restaurants doing dishes and cleaning tables.

Of course, with a reduction in regulatory capture, people would have the ability to create more jobs within their communities. Many of these communities are total shit-holes, there's a LOT of work that needs to be done. Everything from total dump housing projects that need demolished or fixed, to paved roads that are dissolving into dirt roads. Hell, local security would be a great source of 'income'.

As for 'income' - I already said, communities can use other forms of currencies. It's not "income" that is important, it's goods and services. And get this, most people WANT to sell goods and services. This is what 'evil' Capitalists do.

 

[Michael]

Can't get the drug law discard past the religious, family values, conservative, folks. Private property rights have been of course increasingly emphasized in Chicago since Reagan - the city has been privatizing various functions left and right for decades now. Parking meters, were a recent one.

The State should not be allowed to legally restrict adults from taking drugs. As for 'privatizing' various functions - most of this is insider scams where public utilities that have been ruined by generations of public servants are sold to friends of friends and used to screw the local citizens because regulations prevent competition.

Anyway, it's all a huge mess thanks to decades of Welfare. In many cases generations of welfare have removed any living memory of what it means to 'earn' an income. Not to mention the State has totally destroyed the family unit. One of history's proven means of ensuring the next generation is fed and housed. That and Religion - the better being Christianity, Judaism and Mormonism; least in the West. As far as superstitions go, those worked well enough for most people. I suppose Buddhism worked well enough in the East. Islam kept people obedient in the ME.

I wonder, what do you suppose happens when the State runs out of other people's money to spend? When Chinese no longer what to produce the cheap goods that make life bearable for the working poor? Then I wonder what happens? Oh, that's right, this is actually what we see happening.

 

[Retribution]

Do you propose to do a full MRI before prescribing a bandaid?

Well, no, not really. I'm actually all for gun control.
Note that "control" does not necessarily mean taking away the right to own one or two.

What I am not all for, is the belief that it is a solution in and of itself.
When you slap on a bandaid, you often stop worrying about what the cause of the problem was to begin with. An MRI is only going to show that Americans get emotional about stuff, which is hardly telling you anything new or presenting a solution.

This entire debate (with reference to the USA) has now pretty come down to two sides, one arguing for the right to own guns, and the other wanting to reduce gun deaths by taking them away.
There are a few voices raised in the middle, wondering how it came about that Americans seem to really like shooting each other, but those voices are too often lost in the noise.

 

[Retribution]

I wonder if you pile up nations equivalent 300 million people in European union like Uk , France ,Italy, Spain, Scandinavian nation Belgium , Nederland , and compare crime in the USA. I would not be surprised that crime in the EU would be equivalent or worse.

That has actually been wondered.

Let us make two statements and assume them to be factual, as our basis - I'm doing this because it would appear that in this thread and many others on this site alone, they are assumed to be true:
Gun crime in the USA is far and away higher per capita than in any other nation in the world.
Gun ownership in the USA is by far and away higher in the USA than in any other nation in the world.

I'll note here that most of what I'm saying is also under the assumption that the USA should be compared primarily with other western, first world nations, in spite of the difficulties that might introduce into the argument.

So... if one takes those two statements at face value, then it becomes easy to take the stance that guns should be banned, outlawed, or, for the more neutral, subject to stricter control.
But is it really that simple?

If one takes the time to actually do the research (other than posting in the hope someone else will do it for you) then you'll find a lot of statistical evidence regarding gun murder/accident rates all over the net, and a lot of analysis of that statistical evidence.
The vast majority of it is deplorable; lacklustre, incomplete and biased in favour of one view point or another. If all else fails, then simply throw in a photo of some dead black kid on Chicago street, point to it and say "See? See?!"
*As a note to that particular style, which we see an awful lot of around here, all I'll say in this instance is that pointing to the deficiency of moral arguments doesn't get one very far around here.

Real knowledge is becoming lost in noise and furfies thrown up both both sides. However, it's also possible to find some very good research on the subject.

I like this one, in particular, from a couple of years ago:
http://crimeresearch.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/
(If you take the time to read it, take particular note of a cross-referenced article on statistics before and after gun bans: http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/)

Now, if one were to read that in it's entirety, and read the cross references included, one might also come across this:
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...d-crime-for-the-Australian-Parliament-Rev.pdf
I particularly liked the comparison between Australia and New Zealand in there, given the previously mentioned difficulties arising from comparing different nation's statistics.

I'm not saying I can't detect a certain amount of bias in these articles, and I'm not saying I can't add a few other statistical issues I might have with the gathering of pure data - which is to say, in even the best of cases, one is apt to find that the decisions on what should or should not be included in the final product is problematical. What I can say, is that they represent the type of argument we're really not seeing in most places, including here: a reasonably balanced perspective. They've even noted for themselves the difficulty of obtaining a truly like-for-like comparison.
Have to give them that much.

Still, at the end of the day, it's possible to reach two conclusions:
Gun bans, or even gun control, aren't going to solve the problem, in themselves.
What they will do, almost beyond doubt, is get you elected. Here's looking at you, Little Johnny.

 

[sideshowbob]

Note that "control" does not necessarily mean taking away the right to own one or two.

To my mind, gun control is about self control. If Americans could understand that they don't need guns - that guns make them less safe instead of more safe - there wouldn't be any need for legislation; people would voluntarily give up their guns.