a tought on lying, truth, skeptics, fact, fiction, fake or real: UFOs

A

A Canadian

Why talk? When you can listen?
Registered Senior Member
when someone said they saw a UFO first thing that comes into poeples minds is "Yeah right"
be it that there are jokers out there, faking that picture or giving a ELABORATED story or even just a SIMPLE story.
and poeple always link UFOs to Aliens!
technicaly seeing a UFO doesnt means its an alien craft. if i saw a cow in a tornado and i didnt know it was a cow i could classify it as a UFO...
but, i however do belive in "UFOs" and aliens
i thought myself i may have seen one myself, it most defently was a Unidentifyed Flying Object
wether it was a man-made UFO, and Alien UFO, a natural phenomon, or just a figment of my imagination, or something else, i do not know

but theres just so many darn skeptics out there, and lyers, they balance each other out i guess... but what happens someone gets abducted FOR REAL.... whos gonna belive him...
thanks to man kind having the natural urge to be better than his fellow man, the storys keep comming...
way i see it, its like the story, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"

we keep making up this shit and its impossible to belive in anyone anymore, even if it is the honest to god truth.

skeptics can come in the forms of many
-the religious type, who belives that we are the only beings in the universe
-the i have to see it to belive it person
-the im-better-than-everyone-and-your-a-lier kinda type skeptic
-the jack ass (they seem to be the most frequent around here)
plus many many more :D

its true to think that the UFO craze didnt really start untill TV was invented cuase television screwed up poeples heads, but thats just not true

there are many historical documents of "aliens and UFO", granted back then a UFO to a medevil type person would be a commet entering the earths atmosphere, but there are many scriptures, carvings and even paintings on the wall, concering UFO or "little green men" if you will. even some religions have storys of "metalic orbs hovering above the moutains" or "men, not of this earth"

personaly, i think the aliens should just prove to us that they exist already, hijack the whole worlds TV brodast waves and show us your faces just for a few seconds, you dont have to share us your technoligy, just let us know your there and stop creeping around already :)

You Can Run! But You Cant Hide! :D
 
UFO's=Alien Craft

only my opinion.

1 ) Alien Craft are visiting earth

2 ) There are so many documented cases only a complete "moron"
is unable to except this as a possibility.

3 ) Debunking without knowledge is most often the scenerio here. Where thousands of witnesses testimony is absolutely over looked.

4 ) The Arizona Lights were both caused by Alien Craft and Flares
Flares were pre designed to be dropped in locations where mass sightings have occurred in an effort to minimize reactions. Most witnesses seen the craft not the lights and described a V Shaped bluish gunmetal craft Aprox 1 mile wide with the company of smaller orbs.

5 ) Witnesses such as -- Major Gordon Cooper , Robert Salas Missile silo commander, Major Bethune Aviator, Richard C. Hoagland is a former museum space science Curator; a former NASA Consultant; and, during the historic Apollo Missions to the Moon, was science advisor to Walter Cronkite and CBS News.

6 ) Stanton Friedman books should be read by anyone interested in the truth.

7 ) Cometa Report should be considered valid by any scientific minds.

8 ) in 1952 the white house was buzzed by squadrons of Alien Craft twice 1 week apart.

9 ) In 1947 an Alien Craft crashed 75 miles from Roswell 4 bodies were recovered.

10) After Official upcoming release of truth concerning Alien Craft. All paid debunkers should be hunted down and killed as traitors to our country.

11 ) People who have no life use this forum as a vehicle to antagonize others who are interested in discovering the truth.
 
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Re: UFO's=Alien Craft

1 ) Alien Craft are visiting earth
What is the point of discussing an unsupported opinion?

2 ) There are so many documented cases only a complete "moron"
is unable to except this as a possibility.
There are also many documented cases of people seeing Elvis. Also, the majority of people in jail are 'documented' as claiming to be innocent. Unless you have something besides people's claims, you don't have much. The possibility always exist... but this seems a slim possibility.

3 ) Debunking without knowledge is the most often the scenerio here. Where thousands of witnesses testimony is absolutely over looked.
Not over looked. Just no evidence or reaqson to think that it is anything besides a dream/imagination.

4 ) The Arizona Lights were both caused by Alien Craft and Flares
Flares were pre designed to be dropped in locations where mass sightings have occurred in an effort to minimize reactions. Most witnesses seen the craft not the lights and described a V Shaped bluish gunmetal craft Aprox 1 mile wide with the company of smaller orbs.
And you know this how?

8 ) in 1952 the white house was buzzed by squadrons of Alien Craft twice 1 week apart.
Evidence?

9 ) In 1947 an Alien Craft crashed 75 miles from Roswell 4 bodies were recovered.
Evidence?

10) After Official upcoming release of truth concerning Alien Craft. All paid debunkers should be hunted down and killed as traitors to our country.
Ok, first this sentence doesn't even make sense. Second, you seem to be able to read minds as you know all this things, yet have no proof. Or did you hear this from a friend of a friend of a nephew of a senator?

11 ) People who have no life use this forum as a vehicle to antagonize others who are interested in discovering the truth.
'Discovering the truth' does not mean blindly assuming that what people are saying about aliens is true. Unless you have some evidence you are not sharing, you are only guessing. As such, this conversation is pointless.
 
when someone said they saw a UFO first thing that comes into poeples minds is "Yeah right"
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When UFOs seem to only abduct hicks from only a certain part of the world on average it does get a tad weary to start believeing in these claims.

but theres just so many darn skeptics out there, and lyers, they balance each other out i guess... but what happens someone gets abducted FOR REAL.... whos gonna belive him... thanks to man kind having the natural urge to be better than his fellow man, the storys keep comming... way i see it, its like the story, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"
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The other nuts who believe they have been anally visited from the beyond.

we keep making up this shit and its impossible to belive in anyone anymore, even if it is the honest to god truth.
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Someone abducted for real would not make themselves out to be a joke. They would try to dig deeper without trying to draw attention to themselves. Commen sense would dictate that if there were aliens abducting people then the government would have some interest in those abducttes. When you're on a cockamany TV show or publishing then you're not doing a good job of staying incognito.

-the i have to see it to belive it person
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After treading through the subculture forum alone here i'd stick myself in that category.

personaly, i think the aliens should just prove to us that they exist already, hijack the whole worlds TV brodast waves and show us your faces just for a few seconds, you dont have to share us your technoligy, just let us know your there and stop creeping around already
Click to expand...

A comic put it best into words once - "We are the Alabama of our Solar system, no alien wants to show there face here. The only person that greets ET is two hicks in overalls who want to eat the little green man. If they are out of gas they go to Venus." Something like that.
 
dont take much to pull them out

Debunking without knowledge is most often the scenerio here. Where thousands of witnesses testimony is absolutely over looked.

After Official upcoming release of truth concerning Alien Craft. All paid debunkers should be hunted down and killed as traitors to our country.

People who have no life use this forum as a vehicle to antagonize others who are interested in discovering the truth.


1) Im sure all you mental giants have read stanton friedmans books.
2) Have labs in your basements to study soil samples.
3) Are decendants of freud. that have decided all witnesses to be liars.
4) Are photo analyst that have decided all photos to be frauds.


or maybe ?

Have no one too talk to them, so they hang around here looking for attention.

Is a train only real once it runs you over ?
 
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Lol, all you just did was post a subset of your previous post. Repetition does not make you right.
 
The UFO believers never seem to understand what a scientific theory is. They basicaly say the following.
  • There are certain observations that cannot be explained (unless, of course you do not believe the stories told by the observers). My theory is that some of these unexplainable observations are due to visiting extraterrestrials.
The above theory can never be refuted without finding an explanation for every past and future reported observation. You might as well claim that some UFO’s are caused by fairies or leprechauns or ESP phenomena. Those claims cannot be refuted any more than the ET claim.

An unrefutable theory is not acceptable as valid. All true scientific theories are expressed in such a way that they can be disproved by suitable evidence. A proper theory is the following.
  • We never have and never will be visited by extraterrestrials.
The above would be disproved by the first valid evidence of an extraterrestrial visitor, and is therefore a valid theory.
 
Dinosaur, you've nailed the whole crux of the issue on the head!

I have always had the belief that some UFO's COULD be ET, or they COULD be some bizzar natural phenomenon, or COULD be a Government black project. The way science works is to ask a question, and try to find a good answer. This is exactly what many UFOlogists do, but many get so lost in their enthusiasm and there want to believe that they can accept even debunked cases as valid examples. On the other hand, plenty of skeptics are so emotional in their own right, and so zealous to be "on top" that they too loose sight of what they are doing and look like total idiots trying to debunk something they just don't have the data to debunk.
 
While I find many of the negative opinions' arguments unnecessarily confrontational, I can't say as I disagree with their position.

OK, if only ONE of the thousands of sightings of UFO's is an actual alien ship. Where are the aliens? Would you travel thousands and thousands of light years, endure who knows how many dangers and deprivations, get to a planet as interesting as Earth, and all you do is just buzz some trailer park and go home?

If even half of the sightings are real, then why hasn't somebody noticed before now? Why hasn't the Hubble picked it up? Why hasn't Dan Rather said something about it on TV? Why hasn't the green guys given an interview to Barbara Walters?

Why?

I think that the UFO people WANT to believe in aliens, because it injects a sense of magic into their lives, a sense of being involved in something bigger than the commute, picking up the kids from soccer, and do you want me to buy some milk on the way home from work?

You know, there are a LOT of things I wish I could believe in. I love my imagination, and the ability to project a fantasy onto the world, and indulge in it for a moment: daydream that I'm flying through space, or Cinderella, or whatever. But just because I enjoy that fantasy doesn't mean anybody is going to turn up on my front door with a glass slipper and an invite to live in a palace.

UFO's are definitely flying, and they are generally unidentified. But that doesn't mean they are Aliens.
 
That is true. However, if they offer some kind of evidence, circumstantial or no which can suggest that ET's are responsible, they the speculation can stand on it's own merit as a valid and acceptable POSSIBLE explanation.

Now, what evidence one considered valid or not is another issue.
 
If even half of the sightings are real, then why hasn't somebody noticed before now? Why hasn't the Hubble picked it up? Why hasn't Dan Rather said something about it on TV? Why hasn't the green guys given an interview to Barbara Walters?
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The idea of people flying around in vehicles in the sky has been around for thousands of years. It is in cave art. It is in midevil fresco paintings. It is in the Bible. It is in news articles from the 1800's and earlier. Despite what many critics would have you believe, this didn't all start with Kenneth Arnold.
 
Originally posted by Xevious
The idea of people flying around in vehicles in the sky has been around for thousands of years. It is in cave art. It is in midevil fresco paintings. It is in the Bible. It is in news articles from the 1800's and earlier. Despite what many critics would have you believe, this didn't all start with Kenneth Arnold.
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Yeah, that's true. But dragons also appear in nearly every culture of the world, in medieval art, in scholarly writings of the Renaissance and after. But that doesn't mean there are dragons, or that there ever WERE dragons. Same with ghosts, same with vampires, same with demons, same with a lot of things.

Unfortunately, people are fallible: they mis-see, they mis-hear, they mis-interpret, they mis-understand, and they mis-remember. Eyewitness testimony alone is NOT enough, because it's too easy to corrupt. I'm not saying they're LYING, mind you. Just that the mind and the senses are easily fooled, and easily manipulated.

Which is why you have to have more than anecdotal evidence. You have to have pictures, you have to have samples, you have to have more than just the testimony of certainly well-meaning people whom Nature forces to depend on unreliable intelligence gathering instruments, ie, their senses and their memories.

So, rejecting strictly eyewitness testimony, what do you have left? Do you have a body? Do you have a spaceship? Do you even have a fragment of a spaceship that is PROVABLY of extraterrestrial origin?

Photos and video are also unreliable, though less so than memory. They can be too easily manipulated by the unscrupulous (evidence the brilliant skills of those in Hollywood, who can make you think night is day; lying for a living, as it were) or made useless by the unskilled. The films I have seen of UFO's tend to be fuzzy, murky, and unidentifiable as anything. Which fits in with the Unidentified part of UFO, but does NOT confirm that they are aliens.

Look, I'm not denying that there are unidentified flying objects sighted on a daily basis. I just don't believe that they are aliens. And nothing short of Physical, scientifically acceptable proof is going to convince me.
 
That too is fair, but even physical evidence does not always convince the skeptic. Meteorites for example, were dismissed by skeptics as rocks that had been transformed by lightning, instead of being accepted as stones falling from the sky until the 1800's.
 
Originally posted by Xevious
That too is fair, but even physical evidence does not always convince the skeptic. Meteorites for example, were dismissed by skeptics as rocks that had been transformed by lightning, instead of being accepted as stones falling from the sky until the 1800's.
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Sauce for the goose. The same thing can be said for non-skeptics. Can you say 19th century Spiritualism movement? Despite the fact that all those "spirit mediums" being unequivocally debunked, we still have people like John Edwards, to this very day. Can you say Cottingley Fairies? Can you say astrology?

Look, we can bring out examples of failures and embarrassments, on both sides, for the rest of the month, and still not get anywhere. There are assholes on BOTH sides, there are unbending pricks on both sides, there are mistakes on both sides.

I think the difference between a skeptic and a non-skeptic is that a skeptic is willing to say, "show me the proof and I'll believe." The non-skeptic is not.
 
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