A religious argument for capital punishment.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Now bear in mind that this religion is not one we're familiar with, but one from the Paleolithic Era, about 25,000 years ago when both Homo neanderthalensis and H. sapiens lived in Europe. This is a passage from Jean Auel's book The Land of Painted Caves, the final novel of six in the "Earth's Children" series that began with The Clan of the Cave Bear in 1980. The speaker, Ayla, is a medicine woman (which in those days meant she knew how to set broken bones, deliver babies, and mix medicinal herbs) with an unusual background, having been raised by Neanderthals.

It's commonly assumed that Stone Age religion was goddess-oriented, and the artifacts we find bear this out. Since all life comes from women, it must have been a woman who created the world. Auel postulates further that the humans of this era did not understand sexual reproduction, saw no connection between intercourse and pregnancy, and acknowledged only a female parent. Thus "the Mother" is what they call the Supreme Being.

Ayla's clan recently captured four men who had been terrorizing the region for many years, committing robbery, rape and even murder. Just this morning (as coincidence would have it) she found and rescued a two-headed snake. Capital punishment is almost unheard-of in these times, since ostracism is a powerful punishment for people living in such tight communities. These men are clearly what we would today call sociopaths and have escaped from punishment before. The job falls to Ayla to speak to the clan and advise them on what to do.

When a child is born dead, or leaves this world and walks the next soon after birth, it is because the only way a person who is not born right can be fixed is to return to the Mother, so She takes them back. Although it is much easier to say than to do, one should not grieve for such children; the Mother has taken them back so they can be made right. [Ayla opens her haversack and pulls out the two-headed snake.] Some things are not right when they are born, and it is obvious. The only way this snake can be fixed is to return it to the Mother. Sometimes that is what should be done. But sometimes someone is born wrong, and it is not obvious. When you look at them they seem normal, but they are not right inside. Just like this little snake, the only way they can be fixed is to return to the Mother. Only She can fix them.​

In other words, these men are suffering and it would be a kindness to return them to the Mother for repair.

What a concept. In today's Abrahamic religions, people return to God to be rewarded or punished, not fixed.

 

[arauca]

suffering[/B] and it would be a kindness to return them to the Mother for repair.

What a concept. In today's Abrahamic religions, people return to God to be rewarded or punished, not fixed.

The world is evil due to selfishness . Therefor God have selected some people or groups of people to tell humanity on how to live in peace to reduce the evil , but human have selected by themselves, which is the way on how to convey the message , so God's teaching was set aside . Now we have a chaos among ourselves

( note this is my own opinion )

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

The world is evil due to selfishness . Therefor God have selected some people or groups of people to tell humanity on how to live in peace to reduce the evil , but human have selected by themselves, which is the way on how to convey the message , so God's teaching was set aside . Now we have a chaos among ourselves

But one of the major causes (if not the major cause) of this chaos is religion itself. Humanity is on the verge of a Nuclear Holy War between Christians, Muslims and Jews. This 3-way conflict (perhaps 4-way if you count the enmity between Sunni and Shiite Muslims, and 5-way if you count the enmity between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Jews) is the result of disagreements which those of us who have managed to avoid religion find to be utterly trivial, compared to all of the important problems facing mankind such as climate change.

This "selfishness" you bring up is largely a rivalry reminiscent of the Bronze Age: my people are better than your people because our prophet is the true prophet and yours is false.

"Every man is his own prophet, and every prophet is just a man." -- Sheryl Crow, "Out of Our Heads"

 

[arauca]

Setting the word religion aside . If each of us would uphold the Golden rule. " Don't do other what you would not like to be done to you ", sure there would be reduced evil to mankind , excluding what nature would do to us.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Setting the word religion aside. If each of us would uphold the Golden Rule. "Don't do others what you would not like to be done to you " . . . .

The Golden Rule is almost always stated the other way round in English: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. I have often said that this is one of the causes of conflict: What if other people don't want to be treated the way you like to be treated? What then? What if you're a masochist? That's an extreme case, but what if you're simply shy or introverted and don't enjoy frequent, intense companionship, whereas everyone else in your community is an extrovert who doesn't like being alone?

I say, "Do unto others as those others would have you do unto them."

And this is where religion comes in, causing harm. Most religious people believe that being religious is the natural state of man, and those of us who are not religious must be ill, or deluded, or simply have never had the benefit of someone bringing religion to them. They imagine if they were one of those non-religious people, they would be eternally grateful if someone would introduce them to God and Jesus (or Mohammed) and angels and miracles and all of that stupid bullshit.

So they believe they have a duty to treat us the way they think they would want to be treated in our place: to have someone come to them and spend hours, days, weeks, years, explaining the joys of religion to them so that they can have a more "blessed" life.

In fact when evangelists attempt to "bless" me with their religion, my first impulse is to slam the door in their face. I get so tired of being approached and interrupted by religious people! I wish they would do unto me as I would have them do unto me, rather than as they would have others do unto them.

And there's nothing I can do to stop them! I could wear a big sign saying, "I'm a third-generation atheist and I've already heard all the arguments for religion. It's still bullshit. Please don't try to 'bless me' with your religion." All that would do is attract every evangelical Christian within ten miles to come and try to convince me I'm wrong.

The Golden Rule is flawed.

 

[Balerion]

The Golden Rule is flawed.

Of course it is. It's ancient. I've never understood why people insist on believing that our oldest attributions are somehow our wisest. The world, as you've just demonstrated, is a bit too complex for such simplistic sayings.

 

[kx000]

There is somewhere to put them.

 

[arauca]

The Golden Rule is almost always stated the other way round in English: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. I have often said that this is one of the causes of conflict: What if other people don't want to be treated the way you like to be treated? What then? What if you're a masochist? That's an extreme case, but what if you're simply shy or introverted and don't enjoy frequent, intense companionship, whereas everyone else in your community is an extrovert who doesn't like being alone?

I say, "Do unto others as those others would have you do unto them."

And this is where religion comes in, causing harm. Most religious people believe that being religious is the natural state of man, and those of us who are not religious must be ill, or deluded, or simply have never had the benefit of someone bringing religion to them. They imagine if they were one of those non-religious people, they would be eternally grateful if someone would introduce them to God and Jesus (or Mohammed) and angels and miracles and all of that stupid bullshit.

So they believe they have a duty to treat us the way they think they would want to be treated in our place: to have someone come to them and spend hours, days, weeks, years, explaining the joys of religion to them so that they can have a more "blessed" life.

In fact when evangelists attempt to "bless" me with their religion, my first impulse is to slam the door in their face. I get so tired of being approached and interrupted by religious people! I wish they would do unto me as I would have them do unto me, rather than as they would have others do unto them.

And there's nothing I can do to stop them! I could wear a big sign saying, "I'm a third-generation atheist and I've already heard all the arguments for religion. It's still bullshit. Please don't try to 'bless me' with your religion." All that would do is attract every evangelical Christian within ten miles to come and try to convince me I'm wrong.

The Golden Rule is flawed.

So you don't like the theACHING YOU DON'T LIKE THE GOLDEN RULE . So what is that you are preaching to solve the world. So go back Hammurabi rules be unmerciful antibody make a mistake punish them establish more concentration camps , get ready of the born malformed because they become a parasite to the society . So get back to the Spartan era.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

So you don't like the theACHING YOU DON'T LIKE THE GOLDEN RULE.

Could you please do everyone a favor and proofread your posts before you hit the "Post" button? That sentence has so many typographical errors that it's impossible to understand.

I don't like the "aching"? I don't like the "teaching"? I don't like the "Golden Rule"? What exactly are you accusing me of???

If you're saying I don't like the Golden Rule, I never said I don't like it. I just said that it's flawed and could be improved.

So what is that you are preaching to solve the world. So go back Hammurabi rules be unmerciful antibody make a mistake punish them establish more concentration camps , get ready of the born malformed because they become a parasite to the society . So get back to the Spartan era.

Since I have stated that the Golden Rule could be improved, it's foolish of you to suggest that, rather than moving forward with an improved version of the Golden Rule, I would move backward to the morality of the Bronze Age.

You're not making the least bit of sense!

 

[arauca]

Could you please do everyone a favor and proofread your posts before you hit the "Post" button? That sentence has so many typographical errors that it's impossible to understand.

I don't like the "aching"? I don't like the "teaching"? I don't like the "Golden Rule"? What exactly are you accusing me of???

If you're saying I don't like the Golden Rule, I never said I don't like it. I just said that it's flawed and could be improved.

Since I have stated that the Golden Rule could be improved, it's foolish of you to suggest that, rather than moving forward with an improved version of the Golden Rule, I would move backward to the morality of the Bronze Age.

You're not making the least bit of sense!

How do you improve the Golden rule , make a suggestion. that is a copy fro your post "as I would have them do unto me, rather than as they would have others do unto them."

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

How do you improve the Golden rule , make a suggestion. that is a copy fro your post "as I would have them do unto me, rather than as they would have others do unto them."

Your syntax is still chaotic, but I think I understand your question this time. The answer is:

This is exactly how I would improve the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as THEY would have YOU do unto THEM." What you like may not be the same as what they like.