A relationship dilemma

Quantum Quack

Quantum Quack

Life's a tease...
Valued Senior Member
Scenario:

A couple have been married for 20 years and have two children from that marriage.
The wife whilst travelling to another country in an aeroplane to visit her mother disappears and is presumed dead after the aeroplane crashes into the sea and no survivors are found. Her body was never recovered along with the bodies of many other passengers.

The husband after grieving for many years finds someone else to share his life with and remarries and his new wife is pregnant with their first child.

The husband and pregnant wife are sitting having dinner when there is a knock at the door.
He opens the door and finds his presumed dead wife standing there asking him to come back to her. [ She has only just recently been rescued after living on an deserted island for many years]

Question:
1] What should the husband of both women do?
2] How does he reconcile the situation?
3] Is there a solution?
4] Are there any other pertinant questions worth asking?

Care to discuss?
 
1)have a mental breakdown
2)by choosing the one he loves the most or becoming a morman
3)not any nice one
 
Quantum Quack said:
Question:
1] What should the husband of both women do?
2] How does he reconcile the situation?
3] Is there a solution?
4] Are there any other pertinant questions worth asking?
Click to expand...
1. whatever he feels like doing
which takes care of the other three questions
 
First of all, the situation you have described above is not one that would occur frequently in people's lives, so it is unlikely to find a socially established way of dealing with such a situation, there will only be some individual solutions to it.

Another scenario is that a person is abducted and held hostage, or finds themselves lost in a foreign country. Such things do happen.



1] What should the husband of both women do?
2] How does he reconcile the situation?

It is supposed that these people live in a country where plural marriage is illegal, right? If so, then one of the marriages will be annulled in accordance with the law.

The man will simply have to decide which woman he wants to be married to.
Of course, the women will have their say in it as well. I'd say the second wife will have as much difficulty deciding as he.


3] Is there a solution?

Why wouldn't there be one?
It seems that you are supposing the man still loves his first wife. But he has proven to be a pragmatist, and re-married, even decided to have another child. He grieved for "many years", but then stopped grieving and remarried. The way I see it, the first marriage is done deal for him.

The first wife has been away for "many years" -- in that time, she surely had enough time to think about things, and probably also changed psychologically. If she managed to survive on that island all by herself, for "many years", then I'd say she became quite a tuffie and I don't think she would find it all that horrible to accept that her husband has remarried.


4] Are there any other pertinant questions worth asking?

For one, there are the legal issues of custody and child support for the children from the first marriage.

Ideally, there is the question of the marriage vows that were taken at the first marriage.
If they vowed to be together until parted by death, then this is what happened. The first wife was pronounced dead, so the new marriage is not a violation of that vow.
 
Quantum Quack said:
1] What should the husband of both women do?
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In most, if not all, western nations, the man could not remarry without FIRST having the first marriage declared legally null and void. So he's NOT the husband to both women ...he's married to the second woman, the first being declared legally dead.

Quantum Quack said:
2] How does he reconcile the situation?
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First, he doesn't HAVE TO reconcile anything. So this is nothing more than an person showing up who was legally declared dead ...it's a shock, perhaps, but it's nothing that should legally change the second marriage.

Quantum Quack said:
3] Is there a solution?
Click to expand...

Sure. Thousands of them, perhaps millions! One is to get rid of the first woman and go back to their life. Another one is to divorce the second wife, then remarry the first one. Hey, there are lots of solutions.

Baron Max
 
I must confess that there is an underlying question to the threads scenario.
A close friend who was widowed [ for real ] admitted to me in a confidential discussion that even after 8 years since the death of his wife he still is unable to devote his attention fully to his current marriage.

Always, he said, his dead wife enters his thoughts even when he is being physically intimate with his current living wife.

His current wife of course can sense his distraction and has become upset that she seems only to be some sort of surrogate for his deceased wife.

It seems obvious to me that he needs to answer a very difficult question and I put it like this:


I asked him to imagine this scenario:

If you were having dinner with your new wife of 4 years and your dead wife knocked on the door, what choices would you make?

Would you say yes to your dead wife and no to your living wife or would you say no to your dead wife and yes to your living wife.

The idea being that to pose this question in such a way that my friend could clarify in his mind and heart how he felt about his situation.

To say no to his dead wife would mean that he could move forward in life however to say yes would mean that he was constantly in a state of vexation and acting unethically towards his new partner.

If he can only say yes to his dead wife [ in his imagination] then he may need to confront the situation and realise that he has remarried under false pretences.

Of course people being people he will attempt to avoid the issue until finally his new wife will leave him in frustration and disappointment or somehow a resolution happens on it's own in other ways.

His current marriage is under a lot of stress due to this issue and teetering on failure.

Was my advice valuable and worth while or did I do wrong in my suggestion of this imaginary question for my friend to answer?

edit:
Of course it may be claimed that it is our fixation on the notion of monogamous love and relationships that drives this dilemma. After all if we allow polygamy to exist the question would not arrise in it's current intensity.
 
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Even if we do legally allow polygamy the same delimma would still exist.

Polygamy is great for the man, but the women would not want to share their husband would they?
 
Aha. QQ, I'm afraid then that your friend has very romantic and idealistic ideas of romantic relationships. This isn't easily solved.
 
water said:
Aha. QQ, I'm afraid then that your friend has very romantic and idealistic ideas of romantic relationships. This isn't easily solved.
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Agreed, it isn't easilly solved. Grieving can be a tricky business especially if strong guilt is involved.

Part of the analysis:
Even though he has grown 8 years since her death the image of her is static and unchanging. His obsession with a memory and desire to re-live those memories.
If the image of his deceased wife were allowed to grow and change with time I am confident he would feel differently but the illusion of relationship stasis seems to be all too attractive for him. For all he knows she may have divorced him if she hadn't died or some other events may have happened etc etc....But no, she sits there in his mind and heart unchanging and his clinging to this static image means that she "exists" or "lives" when in fact she doesn't.

My question for him to answer was an attempt at getting him to consider his ethical integrity and attempt to finally resolve his grief.
We shall have to wait and see if he manages to come up with the right answer.
 
Dove said:
Even if we do legally allow polygamy the same delimma would still exist.

Polygamy is great for the man, but the women would not want to share their husband would they?
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Dove, I agree that from an entrenched monogamous perspective what you are syaing is quite true. With out wanting to get into a heavy debate about polygamy etc. I feel sometimes that it is that concept of "one love" "true love" etc that applies an unrealistic pressure on people. Idealism creating problems.
We can love in an "unigamous" [ universal ] fashion. however our greed for the entire devotion of another person has a tendancy to build a prison around them with ourselves equally entrenched as their jailor.
It also means that we can end up isolating ourselves because our expectations of monogamy are not and can not be met [ in absolute] thus when confronted with the reality of life we are disappointed.
BTW I am not talking about sexual polygamy as such but more about..... let's use the word hmmmm...polyamour.
 
Quantum Quack said:
Scenario:

A couple have been married for 20 years and have two children from that marriage.
The wife whilst travelling to another country in an aeroplane to visit her mother disappears and is presumed dead after the aeroplane crashes into the sea and no survivors are found. Her body was never recovered along with the bodies of many other passengers.

The husband after grieving for many years finds someone else to share his life with and remarries and his new wife is pregnant with their first child.

The husband and pregnant wife are sitting having dinner when there is a knock at the door.
He opens the door and finds his presumed dead wife standing there asking him to come back to her. [ She has only just recently been rescued after living on an deserted island for many years]

Question:
1] What should the husband of both women do?
2] How does he reconcile the situation?
3] Is there a solution?
4] Are there any other pertinant questions worth asking?

Care to discuss?
Click to expand...

Wow, well I think he should...that's hard. This didn't really happen did it? That would've sucked big time.
Well since she was alive , wouldn't they still be married? So wouldn't he have two wives?
 
Is there any sort of legislation for this (rare) situation? Because if the first wife technically wasn't dead, would it follow that the second marriage wasn't legal?
 
jhuang said:
Is there any sort of legislation for this (rare) situation? Because if the first wife technically wasn't dead, would it follow that the second marriage wasn't legal?
Click to expand...

I would think that there would be legal instruments available in places that have sophisticated legal systems.
For instance the second marriage contract could be deemed as void due to the fact of "mistake" in that it was created due to a mistake thus able to be put aside.

On the other hand it isn't the responsibility of the individual that a death certificate was issued in mistake so why should the individual suffer. The new wife would have a legitimate claim against the husbands assets for example.

It would be really messy I guess and in the end there would be no win win solutions.
The question being asked though is more about the ethics of how the husband behaves when confronted with such a dilemma.

Assuming a typical western marriage was involved he has made certain vows to both women. The new wife has been given assurances that the husband would commit to her for life. The first wife also has had similar assurances.

So what are the "rights" of both women according to those commitments?

And in the final wash doesn't it come down to what is felt at the time of her re-appearance? After all in western society all marriages are subject to possible divorce etc.

Possibly the only solution is to allow the husband time to adjust to the new circumstances and eventually make a decision. Taking a fresh look at his circumstances without the baggage of the past unduely influencing his decisions.
In other words temporarilly call both marriages off. And assume a "single" [ not married] perspective. Thus gaiing an ability to determine his feelings.

I personally would probably take this course of action. I would pack my things and move into a place of neutrality some how and work from there.
To me this would probably be the best solution out of a difficult circumstance.

But of course talking about it is one thing, actually doing it is another.
 
If the first wife was declared legally dead, then the marriage is no longer in force and the second marriage is binding. Even if the first wife is physically alive, the law always trumps reality. The second marriage is the legal one. If she's been missing for at least seven years then the death certificate is virtually automatic.

As for the moral issues? Put yourself in the position of the first wife. The man thinks you're dead and he's had many years to come to terms with that. If you were really dead, as he believes, would you want him to put his life in stasis on the preposterous chance that you might actually be alive? Considering what the odds of that are? Would you want him to, for all practical purposes, give up and hang onto a desperate fantasy? Of course not. You'd want him to move on and find as much happiness as he could.

So you expect to come back and find him married. You have to have the 3-way confrontation, that can't be avoided under such outlandish and unlikely circumstances. But if you're the kind, loving wife you always told him you were, the only kind, loving thing to do is to graciously concede, let him get on with his new life, and make one of your own.

The key here is the number of years. I always thought the seven-year rule is pretty sensible. Not too long to hold out, not so short that very many people come back from the dead in the real world. If you've been gone six years, you have a right to expect him to be waiting and hoping. If it's eight years, sayonara.
 
FR, thanks for the response and yes from the dead wifes perspective this woudl seem reasonable however the thead is more about how the man in the middle deals with his ethics and morality.

It is the husband to both woman that has a major decision to make I think. Sure, the law has ways of dealing with the issue, or there woudl be some instrument that could be adapted and utilised.
The mans feelings however are not subject to such arbitary regulation.

How does he reconcile the re-emergence of someone he loved so strongly with the new love of his current living partner.
He has afterall made his vows to both women and it can be assumed that he loves both women in their own unique ways.

His new wife for example will always have a doubt about his love for her now that one of the reasons for their relationship has been challenged.

And of course there are now three children involved not just the original two.
 
WOW! This one is Fun!... Alright Here Goes *wink*
after being Stranded on an Island for so long There is MORE than a chance that this women has suffered Many challenges. She would be stronger. And Perhaps have a PTSD from what she has endured. She will not be the Same women when She Returns home. The Husband Might possibly feel a sense of Anger, rather then Happiness upon seeing her. Not because he is angry she is alive, but because Life After Death makes many decisions Harder to face and accept. Perhaps this man went through Counseling, or even Court in order to sue the Airliner in a "wrong full death".
Since the Time of her disappearance and His Time of Grieving have taken place. They are truly not the same people they were before the incident. The Tricky Part wouldn't be so much a "choice" of which wife, but the fact that his Former Wife is entitled to all they had Before the Crash. The Feelings, the Despair and the "Other women" would make a Peaceful marriage Impossible. There fore the more Obvious answered is to befriend the Former wife, help her and give the share that was hers.... And Continue the Life that has been created with the new women.

I mean.. thats what I think. :D
 
Quantum Quack said:
I must confess that there is an underlying question to the threads scenario.
A close friend who was widowed [ for real ] admitted to me in a confidential discussion that even after 8 years since the death of his wife he still is unable to devote his attention fully to his current marriage.

.[/I]
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I think Q that your intentions were good but realistically not helpful. The gentleman obviously loved his deceased wife and probably when his current relationship is under strain (as do we all sometimes) we look back to a time we think of as being happier and we may have some regret. Posing the question as you did and assuming thie choice he made to have the im plications u suggest is not really founded. Its really no different to asking any of us when we are going through a hard patch in our current relationhsip would we leap on our first love if they walked through the door. In dream land we may think this is what is desired but in reality, when presented with that person and the true memory of them comes back we may not make that choice. Also even if your friend did love his first wife more, doesn't mean he should be a bachelor all his life as he won't neccessarily ever replace that love in his heart, some people really are unique to us. Your friend needs help accepting his wife has gone and focusing on his new wife. If their problems can not over come his grief then perhaps his new wife should leave him.
 
Good post and thanks for it.
Its really no different to asking any of us when we are going through a hard patch in our current relationhsip would we leap on our first love if they walked through the door. In dream land we may think this is what is desired but in reality, when presented with that person and the true memory of them comes back we may not make that choice.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the reason I posed the imaginary scenario for him to ponder. That at the moment he is dealing with an idealised memory of his deceased wife and that by imagining that she returns he has to deal with the reality of what that return would mean.

At the moment he is fostering an idealistic memory one that those who knew of his relationship would be critical of as to it's reality. In other words those who knew of his relationship with his deceased wife [ when she was alive ] would easilly see it in a different light to that which is idealised in his thoughts now.

So whilst TOR you think you are dis-agreeing with me a little I see we are actually in agreement.....hmmmm....
 
Quantum Quack said:
Good post and thanks for it.

This is exactly the reason I posed the imaginary scenario for him to ponder. That at the moment he is dealing with an idealised memory of his deceased wife and that by imagining that she returns he has to deal with the reality of what that return would mean.

At the moment he is fostering an idealistic memory one that those who knew of his relationship would be critical of as to it's reality. In other words those who knew of his relationship with his deceased wife [ when she was alive ] would easilly see it in a different light to that which is idealised in his thoughts now.

So whilst TOR you think you are dis-agreeing with me a little I see we are actually in agreement.....hmmmm....
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I see what you are trying to achieve definately, the flaw is that his dead wife can never return to enlighten him as to his true feelings. He would have to be using his 'grass is greener on the other side' thinking, without ever being able to know for sure, and he could be very wrong! I had an idealistic view of a first love and when I went through a hard patch in my last relationhsip i pondered on a return to him, but by chance he got in touch, and I immediately realised my thoughts of him were clouded and wrong and there really was no love there at all, but had he not got in touch, how long would this romantic lie have continued? This is the only reason I see a flaw in your plan, is that he can never test it out and may make a mistake. But also he is allowed to have one true love and one close second/third, what he needs to do though is keep it to himself and devote himself to his living wife and remember his other wife's memory in private.
 
Theoryofrelativity said:
I see what you are trying to achieve definately, the flaw is that his dead wife can never return to enlighten him as to his true feelings. He would have to be using his 'grass is greener on the other side' thinking, without ever being able to know for sure, and he could be very wrong! I had an idealistic view of a first love and when I went through a hard patch in my last relationhsip i pondered on a return to him, but by chance he got in touch, and I immediately realised my thoughts of him were clouded and wrong and there really was no love there at all, but had he not got in touch, how long would this romantic lie have continued? This is the only reason I see a flaw in your plan, is that he can never test it out and may make a mistake. But also he is allowed to have one true love and one close second/third, what he needs to do though is keep it to himself and devote himself to his living wife and remember his other wife's memory in private.
Click to expand...
Which is more or less what he was doing before I raised the imaginary scenario with him.

Of course there is no doubt that the idea is fraught with potential difficulties. I might add it is also very confronting for him to apply himself in this way. I just felt at the time that his idealised view needed a reality check. Maybe I errred......
 
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