A Question?

S

stacy

Registered Senior Member
Humankind is created for ultimate reward and punishment.
This does not apply to all other living creatures.

If some people of the different religions may not want to
become alive after their death and prefer to remain dead for ever, like other living creatures.

If they appeal to almighty god, would they be able to obtain the approval of almighty god not to make them alive?
Or humankind has no other choice but to go either to heaven or to hell?
 
Heaven and hell (especially hell) are ridiculous manmade concepts created to control the behaviour of other men. Think about a supreme being taking the time and energy to create hell. Hmmmmm lets see now....boiling oil for a beverage mmmhmm...eternal flames yup, skinning them alive..nice touch, I like it how else can I torture those little bastards hmmmmm.

When the church was attemting to christianize the pagan norsemen they came with their usual spiel about burning in eternal flame etc etc. Well the norsemen thought that sounded nice and warm so since they were doing things to put them there they chased the missionaries out. The missionaries realized thier mistake and changed hell into a FROZEN torture chamber and returned with this new version of hell. Suddenly the norsemen started getting worried and christian :D
 
You are living. Living is you. Death is the absence of you. If the rediculous system you describe actually happens, then no, I don't think there could be any choice about it. But, I think you have mistaken spiritual metaphors for literal truth.

I like what U.G.K. says about death:
It is the body which is immortal. It only changes its form after clinical death, remaining within the flow of life in new shapes. The body is not concerned with "the afterlife" or any kind of permanency. It struggles to survive and multiply NOW. The fictitious "beyond", created by thought out of fear, is really the demand for more of the same, in modified form. This demand for repetition of the same thing over and over again is the demand for permanence. Such permanence is foreign to the body. Thought's demand for permanence is choking the body and distorting perception. Thought sees itself as not just the protector of its own continuity, but also of the body's continuity. Both are utterly false.
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ConsequentAtheist said:
And what evidence warrants such an assumption?
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You do X and get Y.....you wanna avoid Y, then don't do X....isn't that kind of obvious.

Everything you do has a result, a reaction. The result can be positive, which we can label "reward", or it can be negative, which we can label "punishment.
 
X doesn't always result in Y, it depends on the circumstances. If you kill somebody, you might get punished, but if you are a soldier, you will be rewarded.

Actions and results are neutral, and they are the same. A cause becomes an effect, which becomes another cause, which becomes another effect, forever.

What is the difference between an action and a result? Say you pick up the phone to call someone, is this an action? What if you are calling someone because you recieved some important news. Recieving news was the action, and calling someone is the result. Results and actions are just as much artificial labels as "reward" and "punishment".

People have the ability to label things, but the label is not the thing. Labels are illusory. They are temporary symbols applied, for a specific purpose, to an ever changing process.
 
Think about a supreme being taking the time and energy to create hell.
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To me hell is the complete seperation from anything good including God (All good things come from God). I don't think that creating an absence of something requires too much effort :)
Hmmmmm lets see now....boiling oil for a beverage mmmhmm...eternal flames yup, skinning them alive..nice touch, I like it how else can I torture those little bastards hmmmmm.
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I don't think that's quite the mentality behind it. Also, the burning oil and skinning alive etc. are more of a fantasy picture of hell than anything which is actually described anywhere.
 
Humankind is created for ultimate reward and punishment. This does not apply to all other living creatures.
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It does not apply for other living creatures? Why not? Isn´t everything the same? Are humans not animals? Now come on, just because humans are pseudo-intelligent, selfish and much too proud of themself they get extra treatment? I do not think so. It is just our own imagined importance that makes us think like this.
Also, why are we created for the ultimate reward and punishment? We are the ones who create our own rewards and penalties. If there is hell and heaven, it is manmade and we already live in it. It exist in the world around ud and in our minds.
 
stacy said:
Everything you do has a result, a reaction. The result can be positive, which we can label "reward", or it can be negative, which we can label "punishment.
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There are no rewards or punishments, there are only consequences.
 
stacy said:
You do X and get Y.....you wanna avoid Y, then don't do X....isn't that kind of obvious.
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What is not kind of obvious is whether or not this identifies purpose of creation or, even, confirms that there was one. Assertions starting with "Humankind is created for" are little more than teleological blather.
 
Stacy,

Other objections aside... that defeats the point of resurrecting anybody. Let's say I'm the worst criminal ever, I'm at the end of my life and nobody has ever caught me. Now I sincerely don't want to face judgment, so I'd rather "stay dead, thank you".

Aside from the problems I'd have actually appealing to the God of love and justice, do you think God would be justified granting this request before I've actually been judged guilty or innocent, along with the rest of mankind?
 
Humankind is created for ultimate reward and punishment
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Doesn't that have the side effect of reducing God to an egomaniac?
 
tiassa said:
Doesn't that have the side effect of reducing God to an egomaniac?
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Well he does INSIST that we constantly tell him how great he is ;)
 
stacy said:
Humankind is created for ultimate reward and punishment.
This does not apply to all other living creatures.

If some people of the different religions may not want to
become alive after their death and prefer to remain dead for ever, like other living creatures.

If they appeal to almighty god, would they be able to obtain the approval of almighty god not to make them alive?
Or humankind has no other choice but to go either to heaven or to hell?
Click to expand...

Well, if you think about this one, would they exist to make the request before God created them? He creates us as living beings on earth who decide whether they want to be present with God forever in His glory or rot in hell for eternity. To assure yourself heaven, just accept Jesus into your heart; He'll do the rest.

Yours in Christ,

Kevin
 
tiassa said:
Doesn't that have the side effect of reducing God to an egomaniac?
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If stacy were right and that was all we were created for, maybe. But unless you equate "judge" with "egomaniac", it doesn't follow. The buck doesn't stop with God to pacify his own ego - that's just the result of being our Creator. Glory comes from Him and it goes back to Him. We can accept that to our credit or reject it to our shame, but it really doesn't contribute anything to God's status. It's a given.

path said:
Well he does INSIST that we constantly tell him how great he is
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Respecting His creation is not such a bad way of of showing respect. Telling Him how great He is only caresses your own ego, unless you prove you mean it by humbly respecting others and yourself.
 
Kevin,
... To assure yourself heaven, just accept Jesus into your heart; He'll do the rest.
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Personally I try to steer away from such "recipes". People instinctively distrust any advice that begins with "just...". It doesn't show adequate respect for their struggle with the concept or give credit to the suffering Jesus went through to ensure such certainty could even be a possibility.

Hope you understand!
Yours in Christ
JR
 
To assure yourself heaven, just accept Jesus into your heart; He'll do the rest.
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So if someones a mass murderer, then accepts jesus into their heart, they are assured of going to heaven, if people like that get into heaven, i'd rather not go there thanks.
Humankind is created for ultimate reward and punishment.
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Humankind was created by nature from evolution and natural selection, nature doesnt create things for reward and punishment.
 
Jenyar said:
Kevin,

Personally I try to steer away from such "recipes". People instinctively distrust any advice that begins with "just...". It doesn't show adequate respect for their struggle with the concept or give credit to the suffering Jesus went through to ensure such certainty could even be a possibility.

Hope you understand!
Yours in Christ
JR
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You're right.

Scratch out "just" lol

-Kevin
 
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