a question about the 40 year wander
- Thread starter sifreak21
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Manna from Heaven
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna
From what I remember, after Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt, they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years because they sinned against God by creating idols, and this was their punishment. God provide manna from heaven and quails for food, and at one point, Moses struck a rock, and water flowed from it.
Since it would only take 11 days to make the journey from Egypt to the Promised Land...I've always wondered about that..they must have made many circles. I wonder how many times someone said "are we there yet?" As much as the Israelites bitched about the food and water situation during the journey, I wonder why they continued to follow Moses for 40 years? Why didn't they just say "f" this, were outta here after a few months in the desert?
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M*W: Well, relgious folk out there will say the wanderers ate "manna" from heaven. Some interpretations say "manna" was a dew-like bread substance. But, I say it's a metaphor for the Sign of Virgo who was holding sheaves of wheat in her arms. Therefore, it was more of an astro-theological metaphor than it was actual food.
Archeologists and other historians of the Exodus period say it never happened. When you get right down to an ancient map and follow the trail of where these nomads would have wandered, it was only about 30 miles. They wandered for 40 years (maybe another metaphor here), so they were doing what they did all their lives, wandering. They were nomads. That's what nomads do. So it wasn't even significant that Moses (did he really exist?) did't make it to the "land of milk and honey." He was too busy nomading just shy of the border.
Okay, before I digress... you asked what did these people eat and drink? They ate bread they made from grinding wheat (pita bread), lamb, goat, fish, roots and herbs, and plenty of wine, because fresh water was scarce.
For clarification, these nomads wandered in lower Egypt. Lower Egypt was from the area closest to the Mediterranean. Let me explain something. Northern Egypt by the Mediterranean was referred to as "lower" Egypt. Upper Egypt was it's Southernmost part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Egypt
http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodbreads.html
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M*W: Let's backtrack a minute. Moses wasn't leading anybody, at least not Israelites. Let's call a spade a spade... the folks who were running with Moses were called the "Habiru." They later became the Israelites. Moses was running from pharaoh, because when Moses was pharaoh (Akhenaten), he formed his own religion of sun worship. That didn't set too well with the new pharaoh who wanted to reinstate his own religion. So the ancient Israelites were, in fact, sun worshippers.
The folks from this ancient region created idols, because... well, that was how they made their living.
The term forty years is a metaphor meaning "lifetime." They wandered a lifetime making their idols.
The idea that Moses struck a rock and water flowed from it isn't so surprising. They were very close to the Mediterrnean Sea. I live very close to the Gulf of Mexico. I can see that if one struck a rock water might seep up through the ground. That's why we don't have basements in Houston. Same principle.
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M*W: I believe they did actually walk in circles, so to speak. An interesting fact is that they travelled by night and rested by day. No wonder they created myths about the night skies that became man-made religions.
One had to have a very vivid imagination back then
The Jews wandered the desert after their rebellion against God. (They refused to enter the promised land) but they where provided for by God (Mana) to they ate and drank.
Oh just to add some more since reading some of the replies: The Jews did go directly to the borders of the promised land and it did not take them long. The 40 year period only started after they had refused to enter the promised land.
Jesus fasted. Now a fast can be doing without some foods to all foods. The scriptures do not say how encompasing the fast of Jesus was. All it says is that He fasted for 40 days and 40 nights and at the end of it He was hungry.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Hold up.
Can you back this up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten#Death.2C_burial_and_succession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Historicity
Just a couple of quick wikis suggest that there is very little evidence for your claim.
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M*W: What specific questions do you have? Akhenaten had several names. One of them could be Moses. This subject has already been addressed in detail in earlier threads. If you can be specific, then I'll pull out my dusty texts on the 18th dynasty, and we can go to town.
I look forward to hearing from you. This is a subject I like to tackle.
I did ask a specific question:
Coulda been George Washington, too.
Yeah food from supernatural forces.. pretty sure there was some fire in the sky that lead them on too.
How many people? wandered around for 40 years in a area the size of Rhode Island
How many people? wandered around for 40 years in a area the size of Rhode Island
No it was supplied by God.
Anyway the answer i gave is supported by scripture. This is the scripture that details the food they recieved the Mana was the special bread they recieved in the mornings.
Exodus 16
11 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “I have heard the complaints of the children of Israel. Speak to them, saying, ‘At twilight you shall eat meat, and in the morning you shall be filled with bread. And you shall know that I am the LORD your God.’”
13 So it was that quails came up at evening and covered the camp, and in the morning the dew lay all around the camp. 14 And when the layer of dew lifted, there, on the surface of the wilderness, was a small round substance, as fine as frost on the ground. 15 So when the children of Israel saw it, they said to one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.
And Moses said to them, “This is the bread which the LORD has given you to eat. 16 This is the thing which the LORD has commanded: ‘Let every man gather it according to each one’s need, one omer for each person, according to the number of persons; let every man take for those who are in his tent.’”
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
If there is any truth to the Exodus story, the 40 years of wandering was a good idea. Moses was leading a bunch of slaves with slave mentalities. It would not be possible for them to fight for ownership of some territory.
Moses had to wait until there was a generation which had not lived as slaves.
Note that early in their journey, they actually reached the so-called promised land. Moses sent some scouts to investigate. All but Joshua reported that the people in that land were too formidable to deal with.
The above is based on acceptance of the story as actual history rather than made up mythology. This is an issue for another thread.
BTW: I vote for made up mythology based on perhaps just a little bit of historical fact.
Moses had to wait until there was a generation which had not lived as slaves.
Note that early in their journey, they actually reached the so-called promised land. Moses sent some scouts to investigate. All but Joshua reported that the people in that land were too formidable to deal with.
The above is based on acceptance of the story as actual history rather than made up mythology. This is an issue for another thread.
BTW: I vote for made up mythology based on perhaps just a little bit of historical fact.
I guess he didn't ask for directions
Anyway, 40 years must be bullshit.
"40" years is "a lot" of years. To play it out logically, even though the trip across the desert would be 2-5 years for a tribe of a thousand plus, it did take "a lot" of years for them to get established. I mean this in the literal sense- to find ample hills and valleys and water sources and wild vegetation to form a permanent settlement... they no doubt had several locations but it took "a lot" of time to find the right place: "the chosen land".
They lived in the desert as nomads. They watered up when they found it and dehydrated when they found none- they were wanderers looking for a land to permanently settle. The manna was from heaven- it was food from God which sustained them. I'll leave it at that.
*************One had to have a very vivid imagination back then
M*W: I have likened this to a type of ancient video game.
There is a story I read recently of a hermit who was able to live for several decades without food or drink and claimed he was able to absorb all his nutrients and energy from the air around him.
Unfortunately the journalist who found him took him to LA where he died after 3 days of breathing LA air.
Unfortunately the journalist who found him took him to LA where he died after 3 days of breathing LA air.