a prized philosophy of mine, revealed.

[scifes]

(Beta) a prized philosophy of mine, revealed.

you'd better be anxious, because what's coming is really something.

it is an answer to the following, but i thought it's worth a new thread.

in the end of this thread, you should either start seriously thinking of god's existance, or point out to a mistake in my logic.

the following may seem simply put in a few lines, but it took me some SERIOUS thinking to validate it.

here goes:

the following is the conversation:

-=-

It's delusional if you can prove it's not delusional???

EXACTLY!!

if no one can prove it's not delusional, how can you say it's delusional? what makes a fact not a delusion, other that no one can prove it so?

if a delusion deludes EVERYONE, how would anyone know?

it's the foundation for the "we might be brain in vats" theory.

and mind you, even if that's so, then god exists

You persist in producing evidence that you will believe in your god regardless of anything & everything. IF somehow it were proven we are brains in vats, everything in our "world" is suspect. Even IF before that you produced some evidence of your god (which you haven't), once it's proven that we are brains in vats all that evidence means nothing.
Obviously, you believe because you want to and/or you have to & absolutely nothing will make any difference in that. Regardless of validity because you have blinded yourself to it. You blather on about "reasons" yet it is only foolhardy fallacious faith.

now,

anything might be subjective.

a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g.

is there anything excluded?

...ponder...

our reality is our perception, and our perception could be wrong, and relates to false absolute values.

the whole world we're in could be something designed with a future computer, and we're brains in vats, for example.

AAAGH THE POINT IS THE ONLY THING THAT ESCAPES THE SUBJECTIVE NET AND STAYS OBJECTIVE IS US AS PERCIPIENTs, AND THE PERCEPTION.

um, so that means we exist because we perceive.1

2, the creator of the perception has to exist. and he has to be as good as this world we perceive. this world being so complex, means the creator has to be very intelligent...and all scientists know how complex this world and it's rules and equilibriums are.

so if we're brains in vats playing a WOW game, someone has to be making the maps.

if we are asleep in some storage facility with things sticking out of our brains and this whole world is like EA's Sim and SimCity and SimPets and SimUniversity and SimVillage and their sequels, all in one..then again, someone has to be creating the maps we play in.

*deeeep sigh*

fire away.

 

[scifes]

actually, on second thought, you don't have to fire away, i can do with "you're right!!" and "i didn't think of it before!!" and "that's great, i totally agree!!" every once in a while. you know, for a change.

if that's too much to ask, then i guess it can't be helped.

 

[spidergoat]

Argument from complexity. There doesn't have to be a creator for complex things.


Baron Max

 

[scifes]

Argument from complexity. There doesn't have to be a creator for complex things.


Baron Max

ever played a video game?

 

[spidergoat]

Yes.

 

[scifes]

Baron Max

WHAT??

:roflmao:

 

[spidergoat]

I'm trying to start a new trend. Sign everything with "Baron Max"


Baron Max

 

[scifes]

Yes.

how else can you explain the creation of a level in that game without someone sitting down and programming it?

 

[scifes]

I'm trying to start a new trend. Sign everything with "Baron Max"


Baron Max

HEADS WILL ROLL FOR THIS:jason:

Baron Max

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

We perceive because we exist, not the reverse.

IF we are in an artificial world, someone(s) created it. That says nothing about whether gods exist.

 

[spidergoat]

how else can you explain the creation of a level in that game without someone sitting down and programming it?

Games tend to reflect a simplified version of the world and human activities, and thus imply the existence of those humans. Reality is unique, and does not imply a reflection of something else.




Bacon Mac

 

[scifes]

-=-

IF we are in an artificial world, someone(s) created it. That says nothing about whether gods exist.

but that's what people call god, the creator of this world, what did you think god means?

 

[scifes]

Games tend to reflect a simplified version of the world and human activities, and thus imply the existence of those humans. Reality is unique, and does not imply a reflection of something else.




Bacon Mac

how is reality unique?

but we just said we can't be sure what reality is!!??

you mean we can't apply logic to it?

oh man i think it's fairly simple in the OP. um, don't mean this in a goading way, but i think it's better if you all took your time test proofing my theory, we can have better argument that way.

and i'm still waiting for some one to approve

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

In that case it simply means someone(s) who can & do create an artificial simulation. If that's what god means to you, you do believe we are in an artificial simulation.
Someday, maybe soon, we may be gods then.

 

[scifes]

-=-

In that case it simply means someone(s) who can & do create an artificial simulation. If that's what god means to you, you do believe we are in an artificial simulation.
Someday, maybe soon, we may be gods then.

YES!!:yay:

that IS what it means, that someone(s) who can and do create something* we "live" in and call reality.

*that "something" is reality as we know it, you need to be aware of another reality to call this one "artificial".

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

You're contradicting yourself again.

 

[scifes]

-=-

You're contradicting yourself again.

ahh stranger i've had it with you, i think i overhad my dose of sciforums for today..

later.

 

[scifes]

um, could this thread be a proof that god exists?

 

[jayleew]

On one hand, why can't the universe just exist. On the other hand, this universe must have a "beginning," at least from the first (or only) iteration depending on the theory used. This universe defines energy as the only eternal thing that exists in it. It is also known that energy can create matter. So, what caused the build up of energy...what caused the universe-pendulum start swinging (depending on the theory)?

Everything else (even humanity) but that moment can be attributed to the reaction of the universe expanding. The collision that caused amino acids to exist can be traced to the (or a single) explosion of the universe.

That is the question I am holding my verdict for.

 

[Sarkus]

um, so that means we exist because we perceive.1

Which comes first: perception or existence? Do we perceive because we exist, or exist because we perceive?
Is this not also tied up to what we mean when we say something is said to "exist" - i.e. if we define existence as "that which can be perceived by us" then this begs the question and you're stuck with a logical fallacy as a very comy bed-fellow?
Please resolve these issues then rephrase your opening post.

2, the creator of the perception has to exist. and he has to be as good as this world we perceive. this world being so complex, means the creator has to be very intelligent...and all scientists know how complex this world and it's rules and equilibriums are.

Argument from complexity, as spidergoat mentioned earlier. A common fallacy with regard consciousness, creation etc, but no less fallacious for that.

um, could this thread be a proof that god exists?

No.