serenesam
Registered Senior Member
I would assume carbon monoxide is deadly than carbon dioxide?
A Note: Global Warming Threads
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I would assume carbon monoxide is deadly than carbon dioxide?
At the time there wasn't, but the idea that most scientists thought the Earth was cooling and have since been proven wrong, and that this therefore means scientists don't know what they are talking about now is bogus. The global cooling idea was not a mainstream idea, it was just popularized due to one article.serenesam said:
Secondly, your explanation doesn't take into account the fact that current warming doesn't fit into that pattern. According to the pattern, we should be heading into an ice age, but we aren't.
serenesam
Registered Senior Member
I don't know. I could have sworn the data near the end of the documentary says we are heading into an ice age. So what do you think (I'm not an expert in this field)?
That is correct. Smaller concentrations of CO will kill as CO binds to the hemoglobin of the blood making it less able to transport O2 from the lungs to the rest of the body.
CO2 mainly just dissolves in the water of the blood but is transformed into Carbolic acid (I think, but some acid anyway). This changes the pH and if change is great enough you die.
In general, yes; smaller concentrations will kill you. CO binds to oxygen receptor sites and causes hypoxia. It also doesn't want to "let go" so it's hard to flush it out of your system.
It would be great if Dr. Kaufman had the balls to publish his findings in a peer-reviewed journal and not just make a video on the internet for Alex Jones fans.
Carbon monoxide is deadly toxic.
Transport oxygen to organs is achieved by combining hemoglobin, from the blood with oxygen, from the lungs and release oxygen to the organs.
Carbon monoxide combines with hemoglobin irreversible so that it can no longer combine with oxygen, so it can not carry oxygen to organs.The first organ that fails due to lack of oxygen is the brain.
Carbon dioxide is not toxic.
Much carbon dioxide into the air, implies the absence of oxygen. Lack of oxygen is dangerous.
Inhalation of pure oxygen can not.
The divers who use oxygen tanks (instead of compressed air) before inhalation must combine oxygen with expired carbon dioxide.
To properly understand that carbon dioxide is not toxic,
All sodas are made with carbon dioxide.
When you open a bottle of Coke, the gas that is released from the drink is carbon dioxide.
Carbon dioxide dissolved in water forms carbonic acid, which is a very unstable compound.
That find in champagne, in beer or any carbonated beverage.
CO2 is indeed toxic. A 1% concentration will make you feel sick. Concentrations of 7% to 10% cause dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour - even if there is enough oxygen present. The OSHA limit is .5% for 8 hour exposure.
No,
CO, carbon monoxide is toxic.
If you can give a link where CO2, carbon dioxide is classified as toxic.
Link from the NIH:
http://toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=6
"Carbon dioxide in its gas form is an asphyxiant, which cuts off the oxygen supply for breathing, especially in confined spaces. Exposure to concentrations of 10 percent or more of carbon dioxide can cause death, unconsciousness, or convulsions. Exposure may damage a developing fetus.
Exposure to lower concentrations of carbon dioxide can cause hyperventilation, vision damage, lung congestion, central nervous system injury, abrupt muscle contractions, elevated blood pressure, and shortness of breath. Exposure can also cause dizziness, headache, sweating, fatigue, numbness and tingling of extremities, memory loss, nausea, vomiting, depression, confusion, skin and eye burns, and ringing in the ears. "
Inspectapedia:
http://www.inspectapedia.com/hazmat/CO2gashaz.htm
"This is important because we recently had an accident with CO2 in Sweden killing two persons. According to the newspapers CO2 is nontoxic and it is the decreased oxygen levels that kills. Using the equation above one can quickly conclude that adding 31 liters of CO2 would result in 24% CO2(almost instantly fatal) and 16% oxygen (equivalent with breathing at 2800 meters above sea level, which is not dangerous). In conclusion, it is the toxic properties of CO2 that is fatal, not the drop in oxygen."
O2 is carried to your body by Hemoglobin.
CO2 is also carried out of your body by Hemoglobin ~10% (Hemoglobin bound to CO2 is what makes venous blood blue) and dissolved in the plasma ~90%.
High CO2 levels in the blood facilitate Hemoglobin giving up the O2, which is why O2 preferentially gets to places in your body that need it. When you inhale, normally low CO2 levels in the air you breathe causes the CO2 to leave the plasma and this causes the blood Ph to change which facilitates Hemoglobin shedding it's CO2 and replacing it with O2.
Conversely, if the air you breathe in has high CO2 levels, then you can't get rid of much of the CO2 in the plasma, the Ph doesn't change and thus slowly the amount of Hemoglobin with CO2 bound to it rises (can't bind to both CO2 and O2) and thus with each breath you take in a bit less O2 even if it is abundant.
If CO2 levels rise sufficiently and stay high long enough, too much hemoglobin is bound up with CO2 and there is not enough circulating O2 to sustain life and you die.
If you remember on Apollo 13, the reason they had to get those square Lithium Hydroxide chemical canisters to work in the capsule was because they scrubbed the air and prevented a build-up of CO2. There was not an issue because of any lack of O2.
Arthur
CO2 is also carried out of your body by Hemoglobin ~10% (Hemoglobin bound to CO2 is what makes venous blood blue) and dissolved in the plasma ~90%.
High CO2 levels in the blood facilitate Hemoglobin giving up the O2, which is why O2 preferentially gets to places in your body that need it. When you inhale, normally low CO2 levels in the air you breathe causes the CO2 to leave the plasma and this causes the blood Ph to change which facilitates Hemoglobin shedding it's CO2 and replacing it with O2.
Conversely, if the air you breathe in has high CO2 levels, then you can't get rid of much of the CO2 in the plasma, the Ph doesn't change and thus slowly the amount of Hemoglobin with CO2 bound to it rises (can't bind to both CO2 and O2) and thus with each breath you take in a bit less O2 even if it is abundant.
If CO2 levels rise sufficiently and stay high long enough, too much hemoglobin is bound up with CO2 and there is not enough circulating O2 to sustain life and you die.
If you remember on Apollo 13, the reason they had to get those square Lithium Hydroxide chemical canisters to work in the capsule was because they scrubbed the air and prevented a build-up of CO2. There was not an issue because of any lack of O2.
Arthur
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make sense
In re: THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW, Hollywood has their own sensationalist style, but the original book, THE COMING GLOBAL SUPERSTORM, does go into more detail. If you want more current input, do what I did and make a google or yahoo search for "thermohaline", and you'll see the discussion that arose, principally within Britain, after the recent cold snap, and actually beginning late last summer, as BP's fooling around in the Gulf started potentially causing an environmental disaster. Inasmuch as BP is British-owned, I'd have to say the chickens are coming home to roost. On another note, Queen Elizabeth II (and possibly other wealthies connected to the British government) are (secretly) buying up lots of land around Broomfield, Colorado, in the foothills. This may be the next big land rush for the super-rich. It may also be a world power center after the coastal cities go under martial law (like New Orleans), and rising sea levels push the power centers inland. I believe this thinking is a century in advance, but such powerful families didn’t get that way by just planning for tomorrow, and even for THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW!
Somebody pass the milk please...
hmm...one of a billion AGW threads on the internets.
As I have said elsewhere...when an atmospheric physicist explains how exactly CO2 causes warming, when pre-industrial CO2 levels were already close to saturation for absorption, then I'll buy it. Until then, it's all just a bunch of hogwash to me.
And the argument about toxicity of CO2? Everything has an LD...EVERYTHING.
Water is also toxic at a certain point.
As I have said elsewhere...when an atmospheric physicist explains how exactly CO2 causes warming, when pre-industrial CO2 levels were already close to saturation for absorption, then I'll buy it. Until then, it's all just a bunch of hogwash to me.
And the argument about toxicity of CO2? Everything has an LD...EVERYTHING.
Water is also toxic at a certain point.
Hi Keln and welcome to Sciforums.
The above links (and less well post 286) explain why Human's very rapid increase of CO2, may make the Earth completely sterile, with a hot, high-pressure atmosphere until the oceans boil off into space even if the CO2 does not rise to the higher prior levels.
BTW, although CO2 has slowly climbed to be at least twice the current atmospheric concentration, that is far from "saturation." As you should know from opening a carbonated drink (or better yet from chemistry), CO2 is exceptionally soluble in H2O. That is because it forms a chemical compound with the water (carbolic acid as I recall) so 100s of times more will dissolve than say O2.
The above links (and less well post 286) explain why Human's very rapid increase of CO2, may make the Earth completely sterile, with a hot, high-pressure atmosphere until the oceans boil off into space even if the CO2 does not rise to the higher prior levels.
The discovery that "saturation" levels in the lower atmosphere don't settle the issue dates back to the 1950s - originally, that mistake had been used to reject the hypothesis of CO2 buildup ending ice ages.keln said:
You can find references to the discovery easily, with the names of the atmospheric scientists involved and all that good stuff, in a couple of minutes.
That is of course well known among real atmospheric scientists, which speaks to the integrity and actual motivations of much of the "denialist" crowd.
Thanks for the laugh.
What an amazing pessimist you are Billy.
First off, if ALL the ice on the planet melted the oceans wouldn't rise much over 60 meters, BUT, that is physically impossible in less than about 10,000 years even at +20C.
Of course Billy knows more than the IPCC, so what do they say:
SEVERAL METERS Billy and that's over CENTURIES to MILLENNIA
Arthur