A New Physics Theory of Life

Well, DAMN!!! :xctd: If this is true it blows away the whole concept of my thread on what if we really are alone in the universe. But that's okay. I am not a scientist, I'm more of a half-educated local forum irritant and jokester, but hows about you real scientist behave like proper scientist and admit when a new idea blows the old one out of the water? I'm not anticipating a whole lot of opposition to Jeremy England's ideas, but if I have learned anything on this forum, it is that people get caught up in side issues and go off on pointless tangents - like I am doing right now!

This is really incredible news.
 
Trooper said:
Why does life exist?

This was really interesting.
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Yes, this seems quite profound. “You start with a random clump of atoms, and if you shine light on it for long enough, it should not be so surprising that you get a plant,”
“I am certainly not saying that Darwinian ideas are wrong,” he explained. “On the contrary, I am just saying that from the perspective of the physics, you might call Darwinian evolution a special case of a more general phenomenon.” https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/
 
If this was true we should expect to find life on the moon, since it has atoms and sunlight. There are many other factors involved.
 
wellwisher said:
If this was true we should expect to find life on the moon, since it has atoms and sunlight. There are many other factors involved.
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If you had read as far as even the second paragraph:"The formula, based on established physics, indicates that when a group of atoms is driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), it will often gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy."
 
Arne Saknussemm said:
If you had read as far as even the second paragraph:"The formula, based on established physics, indicates that when a group of atoms is driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), it will often gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy."
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Well, yes and no. After all the lit side of the moon receives sunlight and can dissipate lower temperature heat into the rocks. Or, at the terminator, there will be patches of light and shade that provide a heat source and sink. But I also think wellwisher is possibly reading too much into it. As I understand it, the hypothesis doesn't necessarily predict that life will arise anywhere these conditions apply, just that systems will tend to arise that "resonate" increasingly better with the heat source and sink, to dissipate energy more effectively. These could in principle be organic or inorganic in nature.
 
Trooper said:
Why does life exist?

This was really interesting.
Click to expand...

Trooper many thanks for drawing this to our attention. It is a very exciting idea. Of course, it does not get over the difficulty of explaining exactly HOW life originated, but it does suggest a powerful reason as to WHY it did so.

Most interesting of all, to me, it could enable prediction of where else we might expect to find self-organising behaviour for improved "resonance" with the energy sources and sinks available in particular situations.

Let's see, over the coming years, if this goes anywhere. It should not take long, as it is such a captivating concept.

(And I'm already laughing - again - at the silly argument of some creationists that life cannot have arisen without divine intervention because it - supposedly -violates the 2nd Law of TD. If this concept is validated, it means not only does life not violate it, but is positively a consequence of it! Hilarious.)
 
He has simply restated the connected principles of energy and entropy. Energy moves from higher to lower energy. While the entropy of the universe will increase with entropy needing energy input to increase. Since entropy has to increase, this means a steady flow of energy will need to go into entropy, assuring energy goes to lower value. The energy is tied up within entropy.

Ordered structures like cells store energy which is why we get energy back when we burn trees. Life is not trying to dissipate energy but is building it up, within internal structures. While cells are very ordered and define lower entropy in terms of their structures. Life is bucking the energy and entropy laws by building energy and not allowing it to go into entropy so the order of life can form.

What makes this possible is water and oil (organics). Water oil do not mix but will phase separate. This phase separation will lower energy while lowering entropy. Entropy would be much higher if these two phases formed a solution, but they can't. Life arises from needing to lower energy and increase entropy within this water-oil paradox. Organics gradually become more polar and hydrogen bonded, so they can dissolve better in water and net increase entropy. While continued phase separation creates organic pockets of order.

Other solvents do not create the same level of phase separation of fundamental materials, making life difficult to form.
 
wellwisher said:
He has simply restated the connected principles of energy and entropy.
Click to expand...

No, it's far more than that. If it were just that he would not have said anything worthwhile.

If you read and take in the article, it makes plain that a lot of progress has been made on the thermodynamics of open systems. You and I were raised on a diet of closed systems, as these are far easier to handle. What he has done is not trivial, because it gives a thermodynamic foundation to the initially counterintuitive notion that thermodynamics tends to cause an increase in local order, under suitable conditions, in open systems.

You do not get that conclusion from the stuff you are reciting.
 
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