A message for Atheists

W

Wisdom_Seeker

Speaker of my truth
Valued Senior Member
I took this whole segment from the book "The book of secrets" from Osho. And I want to know what atheists think of this. What is their opinion about this.

Yesterday, I was reading this book, I have it in Spanish, so I found this part very interesting, in perspective. And I wrote it down, translated it, and put it there so people discuss it.

"A girl once asked me: “Tell me, Is there really a God?” she was ready to argue that there is no God. I looked her in the face, to her eyes. She was tense, full of arguments; she wanted to fight for that idea. In reality, deep inside she wanted for God to not exist, because if God exists, you have problems. If God exists, then you cannot continue being who you are; then there is a challenge. God is a challenge. It means you cannot be happy with yourself; something higher is possible. A higher state of conscience is possible, an absolute state of conscience. That is what God means.
So she was ready to argue, and she said: “I am an atheist, I don’t believe in God.”.
I told her: “If there is no God, ¿How can you not believe in Him? And God is irrelevant. Your belief and your disbelief, your arguments in favor, and your arguments against have something to do with you, not with God. Why do you worry? If there is no God, why have you traveled so much and why have you come to me to argue about something that doesn’t exist? Forget about Him, and forgive Him. Go to your home, do not waste time. If He doesn’t exist, why are you so worried? Why this effort to prove He doesn’t exist? This effort shows something about you. You are afraid. If God exists, then there is a challenge. If God doesn’t exist, then you can continue being who you are; there is no challenge for your life”
A person that is afraid of challenge, risks, the danger of inner change, of mutation, will always deny the existence of God. Denial is his mind; denial is manifesting something about him, not about God.
I told her that God is not something that can be demonstrated or argued against. God is not an object on which we can adopt an opinion in favor or against. God is a possibility within you. Is not something that is outside; it is a possibility inside you.
If you go towards this possibility, it becomes real. If you don’t head towards this spot, then is not real. If you argument against Him, then there is no sense in going nowere; you are still the same. And this becomes a vicious circle.
You argument that God doesn’t exist, and therefore, you never go towards Him… Because God is an inner journey, an internal path. You never move, why? How can you go towards something that doesn’t exist? So if you continue being the same, you will never find God.
You never get to any sensation, to any vibe from God. So it is now even more demonstrated that He doesn’t exist. And the more this is demonstrated, the farther you are, you are continuing falling, the distance grows.
So it is not a matter of if God exist or not, I told her. It is a matter of if you want to develop or not. If you develop, your total development will be the encounter, your total development will be the communion, your total development will be the finding…"

Acharya Rajneesh
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I initially closed this thread but re-opened after W*S sent me a clarification in the form of the preceding paragraph in the OP.
 
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Clearly then, my initial and completely biased, unverified opinion of this fad book is true. It is yet another justification to hold onto outdated and outmoded religion-supported crutches.
 
Enterprise-D said:
Clearly then, my initial and completely biased, unverified opinion of this fad book is true. It is yet another justification to hold onto outdated and outmoded religion-supported crutches.
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Although you feel this way, this book is about Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, it is about ancient techniques for meditation and concentration. Obviously there is Osho´s explanation of each technique, but you can look pass that.

Vigyan Bhairav Tantra is much older than Osho, and definitely worth 5 stars. To be perfectly honest with you, I could care less about Osho and all the controversy that surrounds him, his life and his followers and the many misguided actions that took place in his name. What I do care about is the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra text itself. A text consisting entirely of meditation techniques written in India 5000 years ago in another language is nearly impossible for an average modern midwestern caucasion with no secondary language skills to decipher.

Making sense of these 112 techniques is exactly what Osho has done.

So don´t judge a book by just a paragraph my friend...
 
So she was ready to argue, and she said: “I am an atheist, I don’t believe in God.”.
I told her: “If there is no God, ¿How can you not believe in Him? And God is irrelevant. Your belief and your disbelief, your arguments in favor, and your arguments against have something to do with you, not with God. Why do you worry? If there is no God, why have you traveled so much and why have you come to me to argue about something that doesn’t exist?
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This isn't, however, a true representation of most atheists and the reasons they don't believe in god(s). "If there is no god, how can you not believe in him" seems to be mistranslated, but it seems to be suggesting that his god must exist because the atheist chose not to believe in it. Otherwise, there would be nothing to disbelieve if it weren't there to begin with. Such a premise is faulty, since there are many things that one can choose not to believe in that don't automatically exist merely because someone else imagined its existence then claimed it to be true.

The remainder of the quote goes on to create a god that is pantheistic and, thus, useless to discuss since proponents of such gods will undoubtedly go on to just say god=nature and is a part of everything, etc. This may be philosophically useful to some and acceptable in the Einsteinian sense ("God does not play dice", etc.), but I find it useless when comparing and contrasting atheism with theism.

And, more to the point of the first part of the quote, atheists speak out against theistic delusions and claims because they are, or are potentially, harmful in their view. Theistic codification of laws and policies lead to theocracies instead of democracies. A society that believes in equality and freedom for religion must, necessarily, be secular. Should any one religious delusion codify itself in a government, all others are immediately shorted and considered "unofficial," and, thus, open to government-sanctioned discrimination.
 
Yea there are some atheists whom like to argue as much as a bible belt pastor, however most just bring it up when confronted with some codex of infinite wisdom to explain biology.
 
SkinWalker said:
A society that believes in equality and freedom for religion must, necessarily, be secular. Should any one religious delusion codify itself in a government, all others are immediately shorted and considered "unofficial," and, thus, open to government-sanctioned discrimination.
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No no my friend, you have misinterpreted this. This is not about a religious belief system, this is about getting to know ourselves.
There is no path for all people to follow, and reach this level of understanding, there are paths as people in this Earth.
So, in order for each to find their path, you cannot impose anything on the person, this is not a religious system that I´m talking about, this is about inner-realization.
The key here is acceptance, if you judge someone, you are going against his very nature, you don´t know if that person is closer to find himself than you are, then how can you judge someone?

I remember this parable, about a chinese wise man, he was celebrating his Master´s enlightment day. So people asked him: "how come you celebrate this day, even if he was never your master?"
He told them: "I went to him one day, and I asked him to accept me as His disciple. He refused in a very rude way, so I turned around, and continued my path... This was an important event, because I went by myself, and found inner-realization within myself. If he had accept me as his disciple, I would have never reached inner-realization, I could only reach it, by following my own path".
This is interesting, a true master will never impose a belief system to you, he will provide you the method to reach enlightment on your own.
 
Therefore, in order to find a path to enlightenment, Seeker, the imposition of religious tenets is a big no-no?
 
Enterprise-D said:
Therefore, in order to find a path to enlightenment, Seeker, the imposition of religious tenets is a big no-no?
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From my perspective, that is correct my friend.

I have seen hundreds of Christians, but not even 1 Christ. I have seen hundred of Buddhists, but not even 1 Buddha.

That is because the masters themselves, didn´t follow a specific dogma or religion. All of them have found their superior knowledge from their inner-selfs; not from religions of their times, and in our case, not from religions from our times.

The thing is, the knowledge we have at hand is what is intrisic in every religion. So I do recommend seeking in religious texts, but from all religions, without judging, without following the steps of nobody. But to learn to seek within our selfs and our personal experiences.

Everyone that gives you a belief system is your enemy.
 
Why do you worry? If there is no God, why have you traveled so much and why have you come to me to argue about something that doesn’t exist? Forget about Him, and forgive Him. Go to your home, do not waste time. If He doesn’t exist, why are you so worried? Why this effort to prove He doesn’t exist? This effort shows something about you. You are afraid. If God exists, then there is a challenge.
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This is simply upside down and inside out. This girl, (to stick with the analogy), wakes up every single day of the week and is forced to watch people tell her that leprechauns are real. When her young innocent child goes to school that child is force fed the belief that leprechauns are real. That belief in leprechauns encompasses everything around her. She can't even spend money without reading "in leprechauns we trust" etc etc and so on. Other than that this woman realises that it's just plain idiotic. It is utterly sickening to believe that there are people in this day and age that actually believe the crap they do.

This lady feels somewhat compelled to make note of that. Don't worry? She wouldn't if it didn't dictate laws, what her child would be forcefed, what planes land in what buildings because of it etc etc etc.

The rest of the quote was equally crap, and I feel compelled to point that out. I'd do exactly the same if you told me leprechauns were real.
 
SnakeLord said:
This is simply upside down and inside out. This girl, (to stick with the analogy), wakes up every single day of the week and is forced to watch people tell her that leprechauns are real. When her young innocent child goes to school that child is force fed the belief that leprechauns are real. That belief in leprechauns encompasses everything around her. She can't even spend money without reading "in leprechauns we trust" etc etc and so on. Other than that this woman realises that it's just plain idiotic. It is utterly sickening to believe that there are people in this day and age that actually believe the crap they do.
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Why it is sickening to you that people believe in God? it is not your problem, it is theirs, from your perspective.
I on the other hand, am not sickened by atheists, I believe in God, and I believe atheists have great chances of entering His kingdom as well, I do not judge you my friend.

It is kinda funny, that in the path towards your inner-realization, your atheist inner-knowledge can be converted into something wonderful you never expected...
 
Osho is confusing the difference between what is a condition and what is an entity...when he speaks of Enlightenment as God.

I love his writing though. Not a supremely enlightened person, but a great literary talent.
 
Carcano said:
Osho is confusing the difference between what is a condition and what is an entity...when he speaks of Enlightenment as God.

I love his writing though. Not a supremely enlightened person, but a great literary talent.
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Mmm, I don´t think Osho speaks of enlightment as a God, but as entering the realm of God, there is a difference my friend.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
Why it is sickening to you that people believe in God? it is not your problem, it is theirs, from your perspective.
I on the other hand, am not sickened by atheists, I believe in God, and I believe atheists have great chances of entering His kingdom as well, I do not judge you my friend.
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*************
M*W: "Sickening" is not the correct term. I am "sickened" by children being abused in this world. I am "sickened" by wars and the ones it affects. Where is your god then?

It is kinda funny, that in the path towards your inner-realization, your atheist inner-knowledge can be converted into something wonderful you never expected...[/QUOTE]

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M*W: Your posts are offensive. Most of us are not interested in your idea of god. We have inner-knowledge, and it is not what you believe you have. What you believe in is not everyone's cup of tea.

In fact, it is my opinion that you don't have enough inner knowledge to even post here. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. You might want to check out the Comparative Religion Forum. Maybe you'll fit in there.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
...So I do recommend seeking in religious texts, but from all religions, without judging, without following the steps of nobody. But to learn to seek within our selfs and our personal experiences.
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what's there to seek,...atheists are already enlightened. ;)
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
Why it is sickening to you that people believe in God? it is not your problem, it is theirs, from your perspective.
I on the other hand, am not sickened by atheists, I believe in God, and I believe atheists have great chances of entering His kingdom as well, I do not judge you my friend.

It is kinda funny, that in the path towards your inner-realization, your atheist inner-knowledge can be converted into something wonderful you never expected...
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they act this way because they are annoyed, annoyed at religious people. because alot of religious people try to force beliefs onto others, so they take it out on all religious people,


i could be classed as an atheist because i do not directly believe in god. but i dont want to class myself as an atheist because i do not like the way most atheists treat non atheists,


people need to stop trying to convert others, that goes for religious people and atheists, we ned to respect each otheers personal beleif systems, even if we think they are stupid, people should be entitled to there own faith and logic systems. even if you think it is illogical and dumb.




peace.
 
This is a good point Wisdom Seeker...if there is no God why do these foolish atheists have to come up with atheistic propaganda like the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc...and write books just to convert others to their faith
 
VitalOne said:
This is a good point Wisdom Seeker...if there is no God why do these foolish atheists have to come up with atheistic propaganda like the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc...and write books just to convert others to their faith
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*************
M*W: Atheism requires no faith.
 
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