A little experiment...

BlueNight

Registered Member
Probably everybody on this board has at least heard of these so called "out of body experiences" or "near death experiences" that people sometimes claim to experience under various conditions. There was an interesting report in the fall of 2002 that doctors in Switzerland were apparently able to repeatedly induce such an out of body experience in a patient while treating her for seizures. Here's a quote...

"Neurology researchers in Switzerland report the case of a woman who described "floating above her own body and watching herself" while she was undergoing testing and treatment for epilepsy. The strange experience only occurred when one particular part of her brain, the angular gyrus in the right cortex, was stimulated with an electrode. And it happened every time the angular gyrus was stimulated."

The experiment was widely reported in the popular media and on the net. For those interested here's a link to an article about it on CNN's website.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/19/coolsc.outofbody/index.html

What I find most interesting about this discovery was the conclusion drawn by pretty much all of the popular media that the whole exercise had proved that "out of body experiences" are all "in you head" and that there is nothing more to them than that.

I'd like to suggest that maybe they missed something more fundamental in how the human beings are "embedded" into whatever "reality" actually is. Perhaps in triggering this part of the brain the patient did not simply imagine that she was looking down on her self. Perhaps.. just maybe, her consiousness was in fact physically displaced from her body and she really was looking down on her self while the doctor's operated. Crazy idea you say... maybe... maybe not...

There is a really easy way to test this hypotheses. I'd like to suggest that the experiment be repeated. This time have the patient lying on the floor underneath a large desk. On top of the desk layout some playing cards, or shapes, or pictures, or whatever. Now while the patient is lying under the desk she can not see what you put on the desk and therefore can't tell you what cards or shapes are there. Now induce an out of body experience. If it is in fact all "in her head" she still should not be able to identify anything you have put on the table. But if her consiousness has in some sense been displaced from her body such that she is in fact looking down on her self from the top of the room she should be able to "see" the desk and the cards and shapes on top of it. If the patient can identify the cards and shapes while the the out of body experince is being induced you have proof that it is not all just "inside their head" and that something radically more fundamental is happening.

If true it would be an astounding discovery and cause many to rethink the construct of reality itself and how the human mind "interfaces" with it. Personally I'd bet the result of the experiment could easily go either way with 50/50 odds for either outcome...
 
I think you guys jump a little quickly with you harsh comments. BlueNight poses an important experiment if you ask me. So far in scientific research, there is very little on the nature of consciousness.

If an experiment were to be carried out as BlueNight suggested (preferably double-blind), something important could be discovered either way. It could at least be an important piece of evidence that OBE's are purely imagined if it were to turn out the cards can't be read. Then we could tell people that they are flat out wrong when talking about OBE's. It may also tell us a little something about the angular gyrus too. If a person was able to read the cards however, what would science make of that?

Here's what I make of it...
Angular Gyrus seems to be located in the parietal lobe, which on the right-side, is a heavy visual-spatial area. I've heard it has something to do with reading and also something about body awareness. It seems kind of close to the temporal lobe area too, which regulates the emotional conviction. So angular gyrus is stimulated, screwing with the person's body awareness. The brain tries to piece it together and holds that consciousness must be outside of the body. So I'm guessing the cards can't be read, but who knows?
 
BlueNight, I think your hypothesis assumes too much about the conditions of out-of-body experiences. Who says the person testing the OBE will be "relocated" directly over the table, or be able to see the cards from their position, or even remember the cards on the table once the OBE is over?
 
I saw a documentary on which they reproduced a "light at the end of the tunnel" and "leaving of body" sensations on a human being.
It is a natural thing apparently.
People close to death experience it because certain parts of their brain begin to shut down or release their chemicals.
By sticking these things on this blindfolded and relaxed guys head they could make him see a light at the end of a tunnel, get a feeling he was surrounded by people even though he was alone in a room, feel a sense of bliss, leaving his physical body etc etc.
They could even predict what the stimulating of certain areas of the brain would conjure up for the test subject.
So when you die and feel your "spirit" leaving your body, see a light at the end of the tunnel, sense the presence of your dead relatives surrounding you and feel a sense of euphoria- don't get your hopes up, it is just your brain shutting down and you will soon be dead:(
 
scientists in an american university were able to make subjects have visions of ghosts by placing them in a very secure room, and subjecting the subject to magnetic fields. these fields were applied to certain parts of the brain and all the people involved reported visions of ghosts. i guess this is a derivative or that or that is a derivative of this. i saw this on a show....where they explained the procedure and parts of the brain etc. but i forgot all that.
 
heyya BlueNight :)

the dawning awareness of such a reality is enough to send the majority of the population into extreem shock
(servear mental malfunction)
and resulting suicide murder or insanity because of the soul inballance with the material world!
so i would suggest you screen your volunteers very carefully!
and have a few strong psyche nurses standing by!
and be prepared to reap what you sow from the matrix
imagine how you would sleep at night in the knolledge of causing someones life to be completely destroyed!
asuming you sleep.

and keep groovin

peace light truth love
the path to that we hold above
 
I'd like to suggest that maybe they missed something more fundamental in how the human beings are "embedded" into whatever "reality" actually is. Perhaps in triggering this part of the brain the patient did not simply imagine that she was looking down on her self. Perhaps.. just maybe, her consiousness was in fact physically displaced from her body and she really was looking down on her self while the doctor's operated. Crazy idea you say... maybe... maybe not...

Nothing is crazy until I say so....:D

The brain expects certain specific pattern of information after sending out query signals to the senses to know where the body is and limbs are in a 3 dimensional space. When I broke my arm in a motorcycle accident, my body said, my arm should be at certain place yet my eyes said, it is lying limp on the ground. It confused the heck out of me.

It could be simply that the brain got erroneous information and hence inferred the position of the body based on the last series of the spatial data (the op room items and people).

On the otherhand, if we are able to tap into and move around in a sea of information (afterall, reality is in the eyes of the beholder - meaning, we are all in a sea of electromagnetic fluid) - then it becomes interesting - though highly improbable.

I have to ponder on that for a while.....

:eek:
 
BlueNight

There have been several instances of surgeries where the brain
was stimulated in a similar fashion (either on purpose or by
accident) and this type of OOBE resulted. Either way, that
experiement you proposed could lead to significant results. If
it turned out to be a perception hallucination then so be it (thats
what I would expect); however, if it turned out to be a relocation
of perception then the implications are extraordinarily profound.

Of course, good luck finding a volunteer!
 
If only I knew some neurologists who could try it! Feel free to suggest my experiment if anyone out there knows someone who could do it...

I've heard of "phantom limbs" and such where stimulation of the brain causes people to believe their arms or legs are some place other then they are. I could see how signals getting mixed up in the brain due to abnormal stimulation of the brain might cause this but...

What has always bugged me is that so many people who have these of of body experiences describe it in terms of being able to look down on themselves and actually see the doctors operating on their body while they were lying on the hospital bed. I just don't see how the brain can generate that kind of response if it's just "all in your head". That's why I think... just maybe... something else may be going on here...
 
...just don't see how the brain can generate that kind of response if it's just "all in your head". That's why I think... just maybe... something else may be going on here...

Well if you've ever had an intense/lucid dream, you will probably
note that the brain can construct landscapes/tastes/emotions,
etc... so something as trivial as floating is a very tiny subset
of what the brain is capable of in this regard.
 
heyya all :)

i think the nature of the information sought can be easly outlined
in the science of remote viewing.

its not new and its not with out proof.
it all depends on what the nature of the information one might conclude at what point proof had been established.

its just a minefeild to navigate through the devoute unbelievers and the compulsive followers.

non intrusive experimentation would be most fruitfull based on the nature of the responsiveness to certain stimulation by way of
physical contact hence double blind by way of sensory depravation.

good luck

groove on :)
 
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