A Geocentric Universe?

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MasterSpecterOfDoom

Registered Member
I firmly believe in the Ptolemaic model of the universe

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Joshua 10:13

Ecclesiastes 1, verse 5:

The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose

How can you dispute this ironclad logic from the Lord himself?
 
MasterSpecterOfDoom said:
I firmly believe in the Ptolemaic model of the universe

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Joshua 10:13

Ecclesiastes 1, verse 5:

The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose

How can you dispute this ironclad logic from the Lord himself?
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So do I. The model works just fine and is just as valid as the heliocentric model (if not more valid since no one stands on the sun) because as Einstein taught us, there is no absolute Cartesian coordinate system with an Absolute Center/Origin. Pick any center you like because there is no absolute center. As far as I'm concerned Ptolemy's is one of the best models since (unless you're an astronaut) we do all our standing on the Earth. The sexigesimal number system takes come getting used to however.
 
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The sun & the stars go round & round, round & round, round & round. The sun & the stars go round & round & the earth stays still.
ALL together NOW children!
 
OilIsMastery said:
So do I. The model works just fine and is just as valid as the heliocentric model (if not more valid since no one stands on the sun) because as Einstein taught us, there is no absolute Cartesian coordinate system with an Absolute Center/Origin. Pick any center you like because there is no absolute center.
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You misunderstand Einstein. (This was explained before, see here) To restate, imagine you are right. Imagine that you designate the Earth the fixed center of the universe. As that designation is made, you make a note of a star that is 5 light years away from Earth along the galactic plane. As we both know the Earth spins once every 24 horus, but, if your theory is right that is relative and one is justified in believing that universe revolves around us (the whole thing) once every 24 hours.

So what speed did the reference star have to attain to do that one complete revolution in one day? A: About 31.415827 light years per day. Since Einstein clearly indicates that the fastest possible speed is 1.0 light year per year, clearly something is amiss. The reference star is moving at 11,000+ times the speed of light.

What Einstein said, actually was that all non-accelerated frames of reference are identical. As soon as the Earth spins, it is accelerating, and that makes the difference. It's acceleration makes it impossible to hold it at being the unmoving center of the universe or to hold that the Sun moves around it consistent with Einstein.
 
Pandaemoni said:
What Einstein said, actually was that all non-accelerated frames of reference are identical.
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You are confusing special relativity with general relativity. Special relativity: The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames. Even ignoring the Earth's rotation, a geocentric frame is a non-inertial frame from the perspective of special relativity.

General relativity: All frames are equally valid. Period. One could do astronomical modeling, including modeling of interstellar and intergalactic dynamics, in the Earth-centered, Earth-fixed (ECEF) frame. In fact, that is exactly the frame you want to use if your job is to model the Earth's atmosphere. On the other hand, using that frame to model the formation of some remote star system or to model the interactions between galaxies is downright silly.

Where the silly religious posters go wrong is in the last step of this chain:
  1. All frames of reference are equally valid. Correct.
  2. An Earth-centered, Earth-fixed frame of reference is a valid point of view. Correct, but for anything but Earth-based phenomena, downright silly.
  3. An Earth-centered, Earth-fixed frame of reference is the only valid point of view. Thus it is written, so shall it be. So sayeth the Lord. Nonsense.
 
Wouldn't that Geocentric universe idea fall on it's ass if we found intelligent life elsewhere? Or am I reading this wrong?
 
An ECEF viewpoint will still be a valid viewpoint even if we do discover intelligent life elsewhere (don't hold your breath). The geocentric universe as proposed in the original post "falls on its ass" because the original poster is not claiming that an ECEF is a valid viewpoint; he is claiming it is the only valid viewpoint. There is a huge difference between a valid viewpoint and the only valid viewpoint.

While an ECEF viewpoint is a valid choice, it is an incredibly stupid choice for any astronomical application other than answering the question "where should I aim my telescope so I can look at object X and how should I move my telescope so I can keep looking at object X for the next several hours?". Fortunately, there are other viewpoints that are valid because the ECEF viewpoint is not the only valid viewpoint.

The geocentric universe concept as touted in the original post "falls in its ass" because the original poster uses a work of fiction as if it were a fact as the basis for his claim.
 
JDawg said:
Wouldn't that Geocentric universe idea fall on it's ass if we found intelligent life elsewhere? Or am I reading this wrong?
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No. According to relativity there is no known center of the universe. The only way you would know the center of the universe is if you're God, an angel, or an omniscient atheist demigod scientist who is infallible.
I suspect you probably fall into category 3 so why don't you tell us.
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
What's all this garbage? Why don't we have a serious discussion about the flat earth theory. Meh.
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Because there is no flat Earth theory. It's a giant straw man. No one in world history ever thought the Earth was flat. Ptolemy knew the world was a sphere and so did Columbus. If you had ever read Ptolemy in your life you would know exactly how it was that he and all Greeks knew that the world is a sphere.
 
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