A flaw in the Biblical apocalpyse? (Opinions and comments please)

[Imagine2005]

Okay, this just occured to me...

First of all, it's logical that if we knew about something that was going to happen, we would be able to prevent it or at least have a chance at doing so, right? Secondly, how do we know about Armageddon, the so-called apocalypse? From the Bible of course. We READ it or HEARD about it, either way. If you didn't read the bible, you saw a movie or read a book depicting it.

Now, come on, if we read this book that told us (whether or not we believe it, mind you) exactly what was going to happen... Where the Anti-Christ would come from, a description of which powers would be under his control, the false prophet, the temple being rebuilt, etc. etc. Whether or not we believed this prophecy in the first place and these things actually started happening tomorrow, would we as humans really be stupid enough that we wouldn't be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the events in the Bible are happening and stop the Anti-Christ before the really bad things happen?

Think about it, WHO doesn't know about Armageddon, the Anti-Christ, the Second Coming? It's so widely known along with the Bible itself. It would be very hard. Once this whole thing starts to unfold, I think it would be safe to assume that the majority of people would see it right away. On that note, the Anti-Christ would have no one to side with, let alone build an army. He would be all by himself. Therefore, God would have already won and there won't have to be any mega natural disasters, nuclear war, etc. etc.

The only way for this prophecy to happen is if it wasn't mentioned in the Bible at all, therefore we would all be caught off guard when it happens, or there would have to be a huge number of idiots out there who've never heard of The Bible, Left Behind, The Stand, Armageddon, and the millions of other books, movies, and conspiracies that surround this ancient topic and they would all fall under the anti-christ's "spell". Then again, there were people who fell under Hitler's spell... Nevermind, this is mind boggling.

What does everyone think?

 

[Adstar]

First of all, it's logical that if we knew about something that was going to happen, we would be able to prevent it or at least have a chance at doing so, right? Secondly, how do we know about Armageddon, the so-called apocalypse? From the Bible of course. We READ it or HEARD about it, either way. If you didn't read the bible, you saw a movie or read a book depicting it.

Bible end time prophesy is written in such a way as to make many varied interpretations possible. This is designed to allow false interpretations to exist. So it is designed to be clear to those who are lead into the true interpretation of the message and also to allow many wrong but plausible interpretations to deceive the ones not lead to the true interpretation. You can READ it but i would guess that what you have HEARD about it is what is pushed by the most successful media backed interpretations.

Now, come on, if we read this book that told us (whether or not we believe it, mind you) exactly what was going to happen... Where the Anti-Christ would come from, a description of which powers would be under his control, the false prophet, the temple being rebuilt, etc. etc. Whether or not we believed this prophecy in the first place and these things actually started happening tomorrow, would we as humans really be stupid enough that we wouldn't be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the events in the Bible are happening and stop the Anti-Christ before the really bad things happen?

People might be able to have a feeling that something big is about to happen or they might have a terrible feeling that something is about to happen, but the simple fact is most of the World does not believe in this stuff anyway. And a good proportion of people who do either believe most of the prophecies have already been fulfilled or they believe in the popular movies or tv series about the end times. I believe that in the end the actual numbers of people who will have the truth revealed to them will be very small indeed. The Book of revelation has been re-printed hundreds of millions of times in the bible but it could be a book that only a few thousand people will understand in the end.

Think about it, WHO doesn't know about Armageddon, the Anti-Christ, the Second Coming? It's so widely known along with the Bible itself. It would be very hard. Once this whole thing starts to unfold, I think it would be safe to assume that the majority of people would see it right away. On that note, the Anti-Christ would have no one to side with, let alone build an army. He would be all by himself. Therefore, God would have already won and there won't have to be any mega natural disasters, nuclear war, etc. etc.

Yes most people know about Armageddon but how many think of it as some huge nuclear war? Or some great battle between two great alliances at the end of the age. Also about the second coming I have talked to many people who believe that Jesus will be born again as before, that He will come into the world as a baby once more. There are so many false views of Armageddon as to make the word mean 50 different things to 50 different people. It will be easy for the Anti-christ to organise a nuclear inferno and wipe out a great nation like the USA and declare it to be the battle of Armageddon won. Or to wage a global war against islam and declare it the war of Armageddon. The anti-christ will have millions on his side because millions will believe he is the returned Messiah.

The only way for this prophecy to happen is if it wasn't mentioned in the Bible at all, therefore we would all be caught off guard when it happens, or there would have to be a huge number of idiots out there who've never heard of The Bible, Left Behind, The Stand, Armageddon, and the millions of other books, movies, and conspiracies that surround this ancient topic and they would all fall under the anti-christ's "spell".
What does everyone think?

Yes many people have seen left behind and the stand and other good entertainment passing itself off as serious bible interpretation. And you are right millions of books have been printed all with varied interpretations all designed to create a flood of confusion so that no one knows what to believe.

Then again, there were people who fell under Hitler's spell... Nevermind, this is mind boggling.

lol do you know that some Germans thought that Hitler was the Messiah Jesus? He even talked about a 1000 year reign. It is easy to deceive the masses and it won't be hard for the anti-christ who will be a far better deceiver than Hitler to deceive the masses.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Cyperium]

Okay, this just occured to me...

First of all, it's logical that if we knew about something that was going to happen, we would be able to prevent it or at least have a chance at doing so, right? Secondly, how do we know about Armageddon, the so-called apocalypse? From the Bible of course. We READ it or HEARD about it, either way. If you didn't read the bible, you saw a movie or read a book depicting it.

Now, come on, if we read this book that told us (whether or not we believe it, mind you) exactly what was going to happen... Where the Anti-Christ would come from, a description of which powers would be under his control, the false prophet, the temple being rebuilt, etc. etc. Whether or not we believed this prophecy in the first place and these things actually started happening tomorrow, would we as humans really be stupid enough that we wouldn't be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the events in the Bible are happening and stop the Anti-Christ before the really bad things happen?

Think about it, WHO doesn't know about Armageddon, the Anti-Christ, the Second Coming? It's so widely known along with the Bible itself. It would be very hard. Once this whole thing starts to unfold, I think it would be safe to assume that the majority of people would see it right away. On that note, the Anti-Christ would have no one to side with, let alone build an army. He would be all by himself. Therefore, God would have already won and there won't have to be any mega natural disasters, nuclear war, etc. etc.

The only way for this prophecy to happen is if it wasn't mentioned in the Bible at all, therefore we would all be caught off guard when it happens, or there would have to be a huge number of idiots out there who've never heard of The Bible, Left Behind, The Stand, Armageddon, and the millions of other books, movies, and conspiracies that surround this ancient topic and they would all fall under the anti-christ's "spell". Then again, there were people who fell under Hitler's spell... Nevermind, this is mind boggling.

What does everyone think?

We can't say no one saw Hitler coming, the world should have shouted "STOP!" and it just shouldn't have been allowed.

The problem is that the masses would have to be convinced and about then most people may be scared to act against something they didn't really believe in. It's different when it is real. It's different when you have to do something, when you may have to give up your life to save it.

 

[Imagine2005]

Okay, that would make sense now. But here's another thought... God and Satan are both powerful, right? They pretty much have the same powers except they're used for different things (i.e. Satan summons Hurricane Katrina, God leads people to the superdome to shelter them, then Satan destroys the power in the dome and delays the buses and supplies so that the people can suffer there in declining conditions for a whole week, etc. etc. etc.)

So since God and Satan are more powerful than all of us and can pretty much know our thoughts and innermost secrets and see everything we see. Then obviously Satan has read all the bibles that there is, because we have read them and knows how it all ends. So (not saying that I'm all for this or anything but) wouldn't Satan be able to change the path of things considering he knows the same future that God knows?

Heck if Satan knows that God is more powerful than him and that he loses to him in the end, why doesn't Satan just kill himself or whatever or lock himself somewhere for all eternity or better yet redeem himself and become good again?

If there's a "Satanic Bible" floating around then forget everything that I said, it would all make sense and make up for Satan's stupidity because obivously here's two supernatural entities believing two different things.

P.S. This may be going a little off topic but if God knows the end result of all this, of life itself, that we are going to suffer and that Satan is going to come to Earth and that there will be another world war, then why let it happen? I mean what is the cause of all this? What cause is this all being done for? In the end, there's no more suffering or pain and we are reunited with the one himself. But what is the message? Why? Why couldn't we be reunited in the first place? This kinda reminds me of the movie "Cube" where one of the characters says something like "Look, there's no purpose to this place, you either use it for something or you don't", could we say the same thing about the universe?

 

[water]

First of all, it's logical that if we knew about something that was going to happen, we would be able to prevent it or at least have a chance at doing so, right?

No.
As long as we believe the prediction to be true, we are trapped. It is only if we don't believe the prediction that we could do something about the predicted outcome -- but which, again, in effect, implies that we believe the prediction to be true.

 

[Adstar]

No.
As long as we believe the prediction to be true, we are trapped. It is only if we don't believe the prediction that we could do something about the predicted outcome -- but which, again, in effect, implies that we believe the prediction to be true.

ha ha ha Well said.

Those who don't believe it don't take any note of it and those that do believe in it know they cannot change it so they do not try. But there are some who try to accelerate it in an attempt to make it happen sooner. Now they are the dangerous crowd.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Okay, that would make sense now. But here's another thought... God and Satan are both powerful, right? They pretty much have the same powers except they're used for different things (i.e. Satan summons Hurricane Katrina, God leads people to the superdome to shelter them, then Satan destroys the power in the dome and delays the buses and supplies so that the people can suffer there in declining conditions for a whole week, etc. etc. etc.)

So since God and Satan are more powerful than all of us and can pretty much know our thoughts and innermost secrets and see everything we see. Then obviously Satan has read all the bibles that there is, because we have read them and knows how it all ends. So (not saying that I'm all for this or anything but) wouldn't Satan be able to change the path of things considering he knows the same future that God knows?

satan can only do things because God allows him to do it. Just as God allows us to do things evil or good. As for disasters i don't think God has given satan power to make those. Maybe if you call war a disaster then yes God has allowed satan to make those. satan does not have the power to mind read indeed some things are blocked from satan so he cannot understand it same as some things are blocked from people so they will not understand things. Whatever knowledge satan obtains it is obtained because God allows him to have it.

Heck if Satan knows that God is more powerful than him and that he loses to him in the end, why doesn't Satan just kill himself or whatever or lock himself somewhere for all eternity or better yet redeem himself and become good again?

satan knows the power of God that it is great but satan is trying to overcome God via proving to all existence that God is not worthy to be the One and Only God of all existence. satan wants to be God also. God could just destroy satan using his power but that would not justify Him as the rightful God. God,s will is to demonstrate His justification as being the One and only sovereign God by demonstration of His ultimate wisdom and perfect love.

If there's a "Satanic Bible" floating around then forget everything that I said, it would all make sense and make up for Satan's stupidity because obivously here's two supernatural entities believing two different things.

satan believed he had a shot a being the equal of God and he deceived others into thinking the same thing. But in the end satan and the others will be proven wrong and God will be exalted as the rightful God not because He has the biggest gun but because He has the greater wisdom and the greater love.

P.S. This may be going a little off topic but if God knows the end result of all this, of life itself, that we are going to suffer and that Satan is going to come to Earth and that there will be another world war, then why let it happen? I mean what is the cause of all this? What cause is this all being done for? In the end, there's no more suffering or pain and we are reunited with the one himself. But what is the message? Why? Why couldn't we be reunited in the first place? This kinda reminds me of the movie "Cube" where one of the characters says something like "Look, there's no purpose to this place, you either use it for something or you don't", could we say the same thing about the universe?

God must give everyone the opportunity to accept Him or rebel against Him. God (the only one with the ability to be God) must show all He is justified to be the one and Only God. Part of that is letting the people of this world destroy each other and the planet to the point that if God did not directly intervene all human life would end on planet earth. satan cannot be God because quite simply he does not have the capacity to handle the job. satan was deluded by pride, just as many people are deluded by pride.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Silas]

I think it's a pretty pisspoor argument from either side which involves giving either God or Satan such minuscule anthropomorphic attributes as "having a bigger gun" or "being deluded by pride".

Think about it, WHO doesn't know about Armageddon, the Anti-Christ, the Second Coming? It's so widely known along with the Bible itself. It would be very hard. Once this whole thing starts to unfold, I think it would be safe to assume that the majority of people would see it right away. On that note, the Anti-Christ would have no one to side with, let alone build an army. He would be all by himself. Therefore, God would have already won and there won't have to be any mega natural disasters, nuclear war, etc. etc.

Ah hahaha! The fallacy involved in assuming that everybody is going to be on Christ's side and opposed to the Antichrist is based on a very simplistic reading of the nature of Armageddon and of the Glorious Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Even diehard Christians are going to wake up to the fact that the Kingdom of Heaven involves the sacrifice of all the personal human rights that even now we are fighting to retain from governments that are treading all over them in the name of "Security". Jesus is a self-appointed King whose judgements are therefore arbitrary and with no Court of Appeal available. If Jesus did turn up in his fiery chariot "splittling the bodies of the Enemy with his word" (Glorious Appearing, Tim LaHaye), I'd forgo my atheism, obviously. But I would still fight tooth and nail against His getting to rule the World without the specific consent, derived by plebiscite, of those He intends to govern.

 

[Godless]

Perhaps the Anti-Christ is already here, perhaps he has now the power of the world's most powerfull arsenal of weapons, perhas many Christians have been fooled by the very same anti-christ, acting as a Christian himself, acting as a benevolent leader. Remember the lessons tought to you by the Star-Wars saga, the Syth leader turned out to be, the one whom we thought would bring order to the empire, but in reality he was the evil one. Perhaps I'm full of shit, but what if this be true? Then we've all are doomed because the Anti-Christ is already in power!

Nice guy or The Devil's Spawn?

Godless

 

[Silas]

Godless, it's not "Syth", the word really is an anagram for that descriptive term applicable to the whole "first" trilogy.

 

[Muslim]

Extremists Muslims and Evangelical Christians want it to happen. It fills out the Prophecy.;

 

[Adstar]

Perhaps the Anti-Christ is already here, perhaps he has now the power of the world's most powerfull arsenal of weapons, perhas many Christians have been fooled by the very same anti-christ, acting as a Christian himself, acting as a benevolent leader. Remember the lessons tought to you by the Star-Wars saga, the Syth leader turned out to be, the one whom we thought would bring order to the empire, but in reality he was the evil one. Perhaps I'm full of shit, but what if this be true? Then we've all are doomed because the Anti-Christ is already in power!

Nice guy or The Devil's Spawn?

Godless

Yes i believe the anti-christ is already alive. As for george bush and the USA they are fall guys for the anti-christ. both bush and the USA are hated all over the world, many people see the USA as the beast or the great satan. But the anti-christ will not be a hated figure initially and remember the anti-christ needs to have his victory over the beast to fulfil prophesies to fool the world into thinking he is the Messiah. So the anti-Christ needs to make a sacrifice of a great nation to have as it where a false battle of Armageddon. The USA will be destroyed within an hour by nuclear fire. If the USA is anything then it is the harlot of Babylon it is not the beast.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[superluminal]

Y'all can't wait for that nucular far and armergeddon, can ya? The anti-keerist is on our doorstep! Better re-pent likety-split-like!

 

[Adstar]

Y'all can't wait for that nucular far and armergeddon, can ya? The anti-keerist is on our doorstep! Better re-pent likety-split-like!

I am looking forward to the arrival of the Messiah Jesus and an end to the powers that be in this world today, as a pregnant woman looks forward to the arrival of her baby.

I do not look forward to the pain and suffering that will happen before the arrival of the Messiah Jesus just as the woman does not look forward to the pain she will go through at child birth.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[superluminal]

That makes good, solid sense.

 

[Godless]

I am looking forward to the arrival of the Messiah Jesus and an end to the powers that be in this world today, as a pregnant woman looks forward to the arrival of her baby.

That's been a 2500year pregnancy!

I do not look forward to the pain and suffering that will happen before the arrival of the Messiah Jesus just as the woman does not look forward to the pain she will go through at child birth.

Too fucking bad that most of that suffering was brought about, religious nut heads, trying to force their beliefs on people. It's happened throughout all of human history, and still happens today! when will the fucking religious blowhard nutheads give up? Till the day we blow ourselves up! I suppose. Fucking idiots!!!

Godless

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I am looking forward to the arrival of the Messiah Jesus and an end to the powers that be in this world today, as a pregnant woman looks forward to the arrival of her baby.

I do not look forward to the pain and suffering that will happen before the arrival of the Messiah Jesus just as the woman does not look forward to the pain she will go through at child birth.

*************
M*W: Well, don't hold your breath. Your messiah didn't come the first time, so don't expect any miracles now. And, please, get off your male chauvinstic soap box. You obviously know nothing about childbirth. Just because your bible refers to the pain a woman experiences does not make it true. I do this for a living, and my patients experience birth without pain. I defy your bible.

 

[Adstar]

That's been a 2500year pregnancy!



Too fucking bad that most of that suffering was brought about, religious nut heads, trying to force their beliefs on people. It's happened throughout all of human history, and still happens today! when will the fucking religious blowhard nutheads give up? Till the day we blow ourselves up! I suppose. Fucking idiots!!!

Godless

It’s not just the ones trying to accelerate the fulfilment of prophecy that cause conflict on earth. The powers that be both religious and secular all use conflict as a tool for their goals. Those who seek to bring about the day of the Lord will not give up their works. But they will not take part in the blessings of Jesus but will face the terror of the day of the Lord.

Amos 5
18 Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Godless]

18 Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.

In actuallity your waiting has been in vain, it's been over 2000 years, no tall tale sign of "the second coming" is in the air, it's time to pack up your bags and leave the fantasy behind.

you really need to read this:

The Second Coming Another Failed Promise

Godless

 

[Adstar]

Yes i read your link and i have a certain admiration for the fellows hard work. He is driven. But i have read most of that before. people often copy and paste such stuff in here and pass it off as their own thoughts.

2 Peter 3
1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days