Palpatine/Lord Sidious is a very good liar. Palpatine fooled everyone for years concerning his true agenda. He as Lord Sidious was behind the blockade of Naboo and the Separatists attacks. he exploited the weaknesses of the Republic to gain dictatorship over the republic worlds. He kind of reminds me of Hitler and Triumph of the Will.
A Case for the Empire
- Thread starter Hapsburg
- Start date
Hey, my hat's off to him, he's the only sith lord in history that successfully conquered the republic. He didn't even use direct military force against it.
http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Declaration_of_a_New_Orderseekeroftheway said:
http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Republic_HoloNet_News_Special_Inaugural_Edition_16:5:24
Also, part of this was heard in Episode III.
Yeah, except no. The trade federation were behind the trade federation attacks. The separatists were behind the separatist attacks. Palpatine saved the republic and saved the galaxy, by reorganizing it and turning it into an Empire.candy said:
Also, hitler was evil, palpatine was not.
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Palpatine was giving orders to Dooku, who was commanding the seperatists. He was giving direct orders to the trade federation to blockade Naboo. He organized the clone wars as a power grab. Like I said, it's genius, my hat's off to him, I just think he's evil (not wrong, evil).
Gotta go with thor on that, but still, how do you define good? Palpatine, although evil (yes, evil) thought that he was doing good, although the jedi and a few senators thought he was evil. The Muslims think we're evil because we're american and we think they're evil because they blow themselves up so they can go enjoy themselves with 72 not for long virgins up in paradise. The Confederates thought the Union was evil because slavery was an essential part of their lives, whereas the Union thought the Confederacy was evil because they BELIEVED slavery was wrong. Good and evil, right and wrong, heroism and villainy are all points of view. Which is why this debate can't be won. By anyone.
Peace, that's not a noble venture? Stable economy, stable politics, stable galaxy, those are not noble ventures? Unification of thousands of species into one strong nation, with its citizens fully protected under law, protected by a strong military, a citizenry with nothing to fear but fear itself? Those are not noble fucking ventures to you??!!
If so, then you are sick and depraved man indeed...
If so, then you are sick and depraved man indeed...
The Republic had peace before Sidious started his manipulations. The Republic had stablity. It had unified thousands of species who were protected by the Republic before Palpatine began his reign of terror to get the Senate to grant him emergency powers.
"This is the twilight of the Jedi corruption and treachery have crushed peace. This is not just the end of a republic; night is falling on civilization itself."
Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover
"This is the twilight of the Jedi corruption and treachery have crushed peace. This is not just the end of a republic; night is falling on civilization itself."
Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover
You call the Mandalorian wars peace, you call the Republic-instigated wars against the dormant and ancient Sith Empire peace?
The Republic could no longer defend and guarantee the rights of its citizens, as evidenced by the Trade Federation invasion of Naboo. The Empire, however, defended its citizens. Contrary to popular stupidity, the Imperials defended thier own. They didn't turn thier back on loyal, law-abiding, hardworking citizens. The only ones they ever attacked were Rebel planets, rebel bases, rebellion sympathisers.
The Republic could no longer defend and guarantee the rights of its citizens, as evidenced by the Trade Federation invasion of Naboo. The Empire, however, defended its citizens. Contrary to popular stupidity, the Imperials defended thier own. They didn't turn thier back on loyal, law-abiding, hardworking citizens. The only ones they ever attacked were Rebel planets, rebel bases, rebellion sympathisers.
The Trade Federation's invasion of Naboo failed and they were sanctioned by the Senate when they became the Separatists.
Since the Rebellion existed the Empire did not bring peace to the galaxy.
Sidious and Vader attacked the Jedi to the point of near extinction.
Please stop trying to rewrite the script.
Since the Rebellion existed the Empire did not bring peace to the galaxy.
Sidious and Vader attacked the Jedi to the point of near extinction.
Please stop trying to rewrite the script.
It failed, yes, but the point is, they did it with relative impunity. It took a stronger leader (Palpatine) for the Senate to come to a damn decision.candy said:
The Empire ruled by fear, true, but they defended thier citizens. The Rebels wer just that...rebels. They were rebelling, disrupting the peace of the Galaxy.
Because the Jedi would have destroyed the Empire, and brought even more chaos. Look at what happened after Palpatine was assassinated; warlordism becomes rampant. Many small factions come in to take up the bits of the Empire. The rebel alliance causes more chaos than they prevent.
On the other hand, during the early Empire, there was relative peace. Yes, they relied on fear, but they rarely actually used it. Besides, the military buildup was necessarry, even if the Empire didn't plan on using fear to rule. Palpatine knew about the Yuuzhan Vong, and was planning ahead.
You keep ignoring the part about Palpatine/Sidious being the one who conspired to create the need for stronger leadership from the Senate so he could seize power. The worst of the Republic's problems were manufactured by the lying conniving cheater Palpatine/Sidious.
Luke's aunt and uncle were not part of the Rebellion yet they were murdered by the Imperials because the droids had been there. That is not protecting people that is ruling by terror.
No idea who the Yuuzhan Vong are. Not part of the movies.
Luke's aunt and uncle were not part of the Rebellion yet they were murdered by the Imperials because the droids had been there. That is not protecting people that is ruling by terror.
No idea who the Yuuzhan Vong are. Not part of the movies.
I assume that the Thrawn Trilogy is the series by Zahn starting with "Heir to the Empire" which I read when it came out. Did not really care for it. I believe that I read the latest installment in the New Jedi Order "Dark Saber". Was not impressed with it; somehow they lack something that the books based on Lucas' movies have.
Have you read the book "Star Wars" by George Lucas?
Have you read the book "Star Wars" by George Lucas?
candy:
No they weren't. Sidious took advantage of flaws already existant in the Republic and the Jedi.
A droid containing the Death Star plans was there... what was the Empire meant to think?
Um.
Of course you realize that the massacre of the Skywalkers was a vendetta? Vader never forgave Owen's father for allowing his mother to be killed as she was. The vendetta was undoubtably transferred to Owen. And when he discovered that they'd been harboring his son, who he had thought was dead, all these years... Well now.
You could say that he was showing them mercy by killing them. I'm sure if he put his mind to it, he could keep them alive a long, long time while torturing them.
I suppose Vader was never much into torture though. A little force choke every now and again, but usually his murders were pretty swift.
Looked at in this way, we can conjecture that much of the problems inherent in the movie that is attributed to the 'dark side' and to the 'empire' could well be the result of a rogue Vader. Vader never really seemed to fit his role of apprentice to Sidious. He never fully accepted the dark side as is evidenced by his eventual return to the light. He merely went along for the ride because he felt he had nothing else. His love was lost. His child dead (so he thought.) His old friends betrayed and/or murdered. His past a bridge that was burned long ago.
Perhaps if he had truly given in to the dark side then he would have settled down into an efficient ruler-in-waiting. He maintained a sort of perpetual... lingering in that half-transformed state. Not quite light. Not quite dark.
Much evil might have been avoided had he simply made the choice rather than letting the choice make him.
He was a coward. And a poor choice for apprentice. Sidious should have killed him long before.
Anyway.
There was a theory I read somewhere... was it related here by Fafnir in some ancient thread perhaps?... Hmm. Regardless, it wasn't his idea anyway...
Vader was not after Luke or the Death Star plans at all. He was, in fact, simply trying to get back C3P0. His long lost homemade droid. There is quite a bit of evidence that points to this listed in the post I'm talking about. But I don't feel like looking for it.
Of course you realize that the massacre of the Skywalkers was a vendetta? Vader never forgave Owen's father for allowing his mother to be killed as she was. The vendetta was undoubtably transferred to Owen. And when he discovered that they'd been harboring his son, who he had thought was dead, all these years... Well now.
You could say that he was showing them mercy by killing them. I'm sure if he put his mind to it, he could keep them alive a long, long time while torturing them.
I suppose Vader was never much into torture though. A little force choke every now and again, but usually his murders were pretty swift.
Looked at in this way, we can conjecture that much of the problems inherent in the movie that is attributed to the 'dark side' and to the 'empire' could well be the result of a rogue Vader. Vader never really seemed to fit his role of apprentice to Sidious. He never fully accepted the dark side as is evidenced by his eventual return to the light. He merely went along for the ride because he felt he had nothing else. His love was lost. His child dead (so he thought.) His old friends betrayed and/or murdered. His past a bridge that was burned long ago.
Perhaps if he had truly given in to the dark side then he would have settled down into an efficient ruler-in-waiting. He maintained a sort of perpetual... lingering in that half-transformed state. Not quite light. Not quite dark.
Much evil might have been avoided had he simply made the choice rather than letting the choice make him.
He was a coward. And a poor choice for apprentice. Sidious should have killed him long before.
Anyway.
There was a theory I read somewhere... was it related here by Fafnir in some ancient thread perhaps?... Hmm. Regardless, it wasn't his idea anyway...
Vader was not after Luke or the Death Star plans at all. He was, in fact, simply trying to get back C3P0. His long lost homemade droid. There is quite a bit of evidence that points to this listed in the post I'm talking about. But I don't feel like looking for it.
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I agree that Sidious/Palpatine took advantage of flaws inherent to a free society but that doe not make his Empire the better alternative. Yoda did finally realize that he had stopped the Jedi from growing; that his way was not the only way.
Luke's guardians had no knowledge about the droids current whereabouts or the Rebellion. Killing them was a senseless act of terror that gave the Imperials no information. Even if they had had the droids and knew all about the Rebellion I am not sure I would condone their murder. The ends do not justify the means.
Luke's guardians had no knowledge about the droids current whereabouts or the Rebellion. Killing them was a senseless act of terror that gave the Imperials no information. Even if they had had the droids and knew all about the Rebellion I am not sure I would condone their murder. The ends do not justify the means.