Greatest I am
Valued Senior Member
A and E could not know love without eating of the TOK.
There are many discussions centered around the story of Eden regardless of whether you read it literally, as allegory, figurative or myth.
Some believe that Satan lied, some that God lied.
Some see it as man’s fall while others, the Orthodox Jews who wrote the O T, see it as man’s elevation.
Some think becoming as Gods is good, Jews, some not. Christians.
Some give A & E free will yet the first time it is used, God punished them.
A & E are supposed to be autonomous yet cannot know they are without doing their will instead of the will of God.
Some see the punishments and original sin given as unjust and unbiblical.
Some point to the fact that disobedience to God deserves anything God wants to do too them as well as all their descendents. Again contradicted by scripture.
Some think that to become as Gods with a moral sense is worth any punishment or hardship.
The terms used in Eden are always in dispute.
What did God mean with, you shall surely die? A death innocence, there eyes were opened? Or a physical death that is passed on to all men?
Who or what was the serpent or what does he represent?
In other words, in 2000 years of debate, Eden and a fall or elevation, has not moved to any accepted conclusions.
That is why I would like to focus on the issue of love and what Eden would be like if A & E had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. A & E could not know love as it is good and they had no knowledge of good.
Perhaps by entering the story from this angle, some progress might actually be gained.
Certainly none has been gained by any other means.
The oldest tradition started with Eden as our elevation from ignorance to having a moral sense.
http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php
Christianity later usurped the Jewish scriptures, embraced them as a part of the bible, and promptly turned the moral of the story from what the Jews had in place, to the fall of man. Blamed for bringing death to the earth and cursed with original sin. A guilt trip that all were to share.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc
Where Jews empowered man, the Christians as Bishop Spong says, went into the guilt producing business.
Now, on to speaking of love.
I see Eden, before our elevation or fall, depending on your POV, as resembling this clip that shows, in a good analogy, what Eden may have been like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7J9LtT95w&feature=related
You have seen that love certainly was not about in that clip and without it, people would not care for each other. I contend therefore that in Eden, if A & E had not gained a moral sense, thus enabling them to know love as something good, life for man would not be worth living.
The Jewish interpretation the gain of love as a huge plus while Christianity would shun this virtue and instead opt for blind obedience as the more valuable virtue. They chose to make slavery a virtue, instead the notion of rebellion against tyranny. You may have noted that nowhere in scripture is slavery condemned. In fact Paul teaches just how to beat your slaves. Nowhere in scripture is woman given equality because Eve was made from Adam’s rib and is declare to be the head of woman. This is also contrasted by the opposing view that the Jews had of Lilith, Adams first mate who is given, or better said, takes full equality.
The Christian Eden began devoid of love. When A & E gained the ability to love, through the gain of knowledge and wisdom, God shoes clearly that there is no love in his heart and that he is a jealous God who is culpable for allowing death to enter the world by locking away the tree of life. That same tree which he had already told A & E they could eat from, thus in effect, killing them. Some would say murdering them.
What would you do if you were Adam or Eve?
Create the conditions where love nor death could be found on earth and live as in that clip of The Time Machine, or would you follow Eve and choose knowledge and wisdom and become as Gods, God’s words, and disobey a command that you could not know, without first eating of the tree of knowledge, that that would be an evil act?
Whose interpretation of Eden do you think makes more sense and is better for mankind?
The Jewish interpretation of man’s elevation, or the Christian one of the fall and promotion of blind obedience?
Regards
DL
P S. Which tune do you like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVbLNPwi_r0
Or.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKxOaGLTPTM
There are many discussions centered around the story of Eden regardless of whether you read it literally, as allegory, figurative or myth.
Some believe that Satan lied, some that God lied.
Some see it as man’s fall while others, the Orthodox Jews who wrote the O T, see it as man’s elevation.
Some think becoming as Gods is good, Jews, some not. Christians.
Some give A & E free will yet the first time it is used, God punished them.
A & E are supposed to be autonomous yet cannot know they are without doing their will instead of the will of God.
Some see the punishments and original sin given as unjust and unbiblical.
Some point to the fact that disobedience to God deserves anything God wants to do too them as well as all their descendents. Again contradicted by scripture.
Some think that to become as Gods with a moral sense is worth any punishment or hardship.
The terms used in Eden are always in dispute.
What did God mean with, you shall surely die? A death innocence, there eyes were opened? Or a physical death that is passed on to all men?
Who or what was the serpent or what does he represent?
In other words, in 2000 years of debate, Eden and a fall or elevation, has not moved to any accepted conclusions.
That is why I would like to focus on the issue of love and what Eden would be like if A & E had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. A & E could not know love as it is good and they had no knowledge of good.
Perhaps by entering the story from this angle, some progress might actually be gained.
Certainly none has been gained by any other means.
The oldest tradition started with Eden as our elevation from ignorance to having a moral sense.
http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php
Christianity later usurped the Jewish scriptures, embraced them as a part of the bible, and promptly turned the moral of the story from what the Jews had in place, to the fall of man. Blamed for bringing death to the earth and cursed with original sin. A guilt trip that all were to share.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc
Where Jews empowered man, the Christians as Bishop Spong says, went into the guilt producing business.
Now, on to speaking of love.
I see Eden, before our elevation or fall, depending on your POV, as resembling this clip that shows, in a good analogy, what Eden may have been like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7J9LtT95w&feature=related
You have seen that love certainly was not about in that clip and without it, people would not care for each other. I contend therefore that in Eden, if A & E had not gained a moral sense, thus enabling them to know love as something good, life for man would not be worth living.
The Jewish interpretation the gain of love as a huge plus while Christianity would shun this virtue and instead opt for blind obedience as the more valuable virtue. They chose to make slavery a virtue, instead the notion of rebellion against tyranny. You may have noted that nowhere in scripture is slavery condemned. In fact Paul teaches just how to beat your slaves. Nowhere in scripture is woman given equality because Eve was made from Adam’s rib and is declare to be the head of woman. This is also contrasted by the opposing view that the Jews had of Lilith, Adams first mate who is given, or better said, takes full equality.
The Christian Eden began devoid of love. When A & E gained the ability to love, through the gain of knowledge and wisdom, God shoes clearly that there is no love in his heart and that he is a jealous God who is culpable for allowing death to enter the world by locking away the tree of life. That same tree which he had already told A & E they could eat from, thus in effect, killing them. Some would say murdering them.
What would you do if you were Adam or Eve?
Create the conditions where love nor death could be found on earth and live as in that clip of The Time Machine, or would you follow Eve and choose knowledge and wisdom and become as Gods, God’s words, and disobey a command that you could not know, without first eating of the tree of knowledge, that that would be an evil act?
Whose interpretation of Eden do you think makes more sense and is better for mankind?
The Jewish interpretation of man’s elevation, or the Christian one of the fall and promotion of blind obedience?
Regards
DL
P S. Which tune do you like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVbLNPwi_r0
Or.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKxOaGLTPTM