15000 dead minks

[Syzygys]

In Spain animal rights activists broke into a minkfarm and freed/released/stole 15000 minks during the night. According to the farm's owner, those animals will die in a few days because they don't have the ability to survive in the wild.

I say if they die anyway, I want my minkcoat right now....

 

[TW Scott]

This is the problem with animal rights activists. they break the law, endanger animals, and don't get in trouble for it. I actually cheered when I saw the beginning to 28 Days Later

 

[James R]

As a general proposition, most of what TW Scott said is false.

Most of the time, most animal activists abide by the law, save animals from danger and abuse, and get in trouble for it.

28 Days later was a good film, but it was fiction.

 

[TW Scott]

Oh really, Animal Right Activist obey the law.

How is dousing somone with red paint not assualt?

How is breaking into a french boutique and smearing red paint on the inside of the windows not B&E and Defacement of property?

How is trying to stop hunting on private land with a court order supposedl;y signed by the very Judge they were trying to stop hunting not Forgery and Identity Theft?

How trespassing on a farm and releasing 15000 mink not Trespassing and Grand Theft?

How is attacking a fully legal whaling expedtion by an isolated tribe in Alaska not an act of Terrorism? (Note this tribe take one whale a year and is allowed to do such in it treaty with the United States Government.)

People belonging to such agencies as PETA have no respect for the law. They disobey it whenever they feel they can get away with it.

 

[Bells]

Oh really, Animal Right Activist obey the law.

How is dousing somone with red paint not assualt?

How is breaking into a french boutique and smearing red paint on the inside of the windows not B&E and Defacement of property?

How is trying to stop hunting on private land with a court order supposedl;y signed by the very Judge they were trying to stop hunting not Forgery and Identity Theft?

How trespassing on a farm and releasing 15000 mink not Trespassing and Grand Theft?

How is attacking a fully legal whaling expedtion by an isolated tribe in Alaska not an act of Terrorism? (Note this tribe take one whale a year and is allowed to do such in it treaty with the United States Government.)

People belonging to such agencies as PETA have no respect for the law. They disobey it whenever they feel they can get away with it.

The same that one would say that all gun owners obey the law wouldn't you say? It would be a false claim to say as much wouldn't it. The same goes for Animal Rights Activists.

The majority of animal rights activists do obey the law. A small minority go to extremes and break the law. Does not make all the same. There are extremes and those who basically behave like fundamentalists in most things I guess and those people do not represent the majority. For example, the majority of those who do not wear furs, leather or other animal products do not douse others who do wear such items with red paint.

 

[James R]

TW Scott:

As usual, you didn't read what I wrote carefully enough. Go back and read it again.

How is dousing somone with red paint not assualt?

I never claimed it was not assault.

How is breaking into a french boutique and smearing red paint on the inside of the windows not B&E and Defacement of property?

I never claimed this was not defacement of property. In fact, I never mentioned it.

How is trying to stop hunting on private land with a court order supposedl;y signed by the very Judge they were trying to stop hunting not Forgery and Identity Theft?

I don't remember discussing this.

How trespassing on a farm and releasing 15000 mink not Trespassing and Grand Theft?

I don't remember making claims about these acts.

etc. etc.

People belonging to such agencies as PETA have no respect for the law. They disobey it whenever they feel they can get away with it.

Once again, you are sadly uninformed.

First, you lump everybody into the same basket. Not all people who belong to PETA, to take your example, break the law.

Second, you are incorrect to paint members of PETA as having "no respect for the law". Those people pay their taxes. They obey the road rules. They don't rob banks.

Third, you are obviously unaware that animal activists in groups such as PETA often go out of their way to publicise their activities. How do you think the story of the minks got into the media? These people do not disobey the law "when they think they can get away with it". Often, they set out specificly and publicly to break the law.

Would you like some additional education on why they might act that way? I'm sure you're not interested. You're stuck in a narrow mindset that says that all laws are just, because some lawmaker said so. In your world, there's no such thing as an unjust law. If the government declared murder mandatory tomorrow, you'd be the first to grab your gun and start shooting people, I'm sure.

 

[TW Scott]

The same that one would say that all gun owners obey the law wouldn't you say? It would be a false claim to say as much wouldn't it. The same goes for Animal Rights Activists.

The majority of animal rights activists do obey the law. A small minority go to extremes and break the law. Does not make all the same. There are extremes and those who basically behave like fundamentalists in most things I guess and those people do not represent the majority. For example, the majority of those who do not wear furs, leather or other animal products do not douse others who do wear such items with red paint.

Well that's the difference. There is Animal Rights Supporters and Animal Rights Activits. The first ones are the people who do not grab headline, but they are the ones who get the job done. They are the ones who go for the small change at a time and are also willing to see compromise. The activist believe it is their duty to force everyone into their opinion. If you disagree they do whatever they feel is neccesary to make your life a living hell.

I am an Animal Rights Supporter. I work to give agricultural animals humane treatment in life before they are harvested. I work to make sure hunts are done fairly. I work to make sure labortory animals are not abused.

 

[imaplanck.]

Interesting that a lot of these lobbies seem to inflict violence on people that do treat animals humanely, while the extremes of animal cruelty seem to go on relatively unhindered. Why dont they go splash paint on the bear bile farmers and live animal skinners in Japan? Oh yeah, they may get violent retaliation.

 

[TW Scott]

TW Scott:

As usual, you didn't read what I wrote carefully enough. Go back and read it again.

I never claimed it was not assault.

I never claimed this was not defacement of property. In fact, I never mentioned it.

I don't remember discussing this.

I don't remember making claims about these acts.

etc. etc.

Once again, you are sadly uninformed.

First, you lump everybody into the same basket. Not all people who belong to PETA, to take your example, break the law.

Oh, so Dan Mathews never told PETA memebers to get arrested as often as you can. Now normally you have to be breaking the law to get arrested. Besides i lump Animal RIghts people in two groups. Supporters, who work with governemtn and corporation to effect change and Activists who by definition are terrorist, using violence on civiliians to sway political opinion.

Would you like some additional education on why they might act that way? I'm sure you're not interested. You're stuck in a narrow mindset that says that all laws are just, because some lawmaker said so. In your world, there's no such thing as an unjust law. If the government declared murder mandatory tomorrow, you'd be the first to grab your gun and start shooting people, I'm sure.

[

Wrong, there are unjust laws however these people are not breaking the unjust ones. They are Assaulting People, Forging Documents, Stealing, Defacing Property, Destroying Property, Trespassing, and so on. Those are the laws PETA activists break.

 

[vslayer]

if they die in a few days, then at least their deaths wont fund an industry which enslaves them.

 

[imaplanck.]

if they die in a few days, then at least their deaths wont fund an industry which enslaves them.

Thats just the kind of puerile attitude that gives animal rights people a bad name.
So you dont care that 15000 minks will suffer an excruciating death in the wild, due to these actions just as long as they are not captive?

 

[Syzygys]

if they die in a few days, then at least their deaths wont fund an industry which enslaves them.

They sure can be health hazard for the neighbourhood. My bet is that the farmer get reimbursed by the insurance company, the minks die a cruel death and some pets might also die in the area due to infections... Nice job! Oh yeah, bird of preys also would like to thank the animal right activists for the gift...

 

[vslayer]

how is their death in the wild any worse than their slaughter in captivity, especially when it takes money away from such an industry.

if you were being farmed for your skin and knew you couldnt live outside, would you still try to escape so that at least they didnt gete any money with which to enslave more people?

 

[Kunax]

heh wonderfull, minks will kill anything that comes in to range before dieing(sp!) of starvation, now think 15000 minks, say byebye small animals, just wonderfull .

Or it could be some elaborate plot to introduce a foerign predetor in to the local ecosystem

 

[James R]

Oh, so Dan Mathews never told PETA memebers to get arrested as often as you can.

That backs up my point, then. PETA members don't break the law when they think they can get away with it, as you claimed earlier. Want to retract that claim now?

Now normally you have to be breaking the law to get arrested. Besides i lump Animal RIghts people in two groups. Supporters, who work with governemtn and corporation to effect change and Activists who by definition are terrorist, using violence on civiliians to sway political opinion.

Fine. Classify away, if it makes you happy. The point is that not all "supporters" are "activists", which was my original point.

So, with you having now retracted all of your original claims, my work here is done.

 

[imaplanck.]

how is their death in the wild any worse than their slaughter in captivity, especially when it takes money away from such an industry.

if you were being farmed for your skin and knew you couldnt live outside, would you still try to escape so that at least they didnt gete any money with which to enslave more people?

Listen to yourself will you?

 

[Roman]

Bit 'o science for you:

Minks are mustelids, related to otters and martens. Martens are small alpine predators, otters aquatic ones. Both are known for their playful behavior. Minks are semi-aquatic, and also climb stuff.

There was an experiment performed where caged minks were given a bunch of rooms to explore: a room with rocks and a burrow, a room with a toy, a room with a pool of water, and a room with delicious food&drink. The mink was then kept in an empty box with paths to all the adjacent rooms. Food and water was provided in that room. The paths were all barred with weights– it required a variable amount of energy (however much the researchers wanted to put on there) to go into each room.

Guess which room got the most traffic, regardless of how much weight they put on the door?

The room with the swimming pool.
That's right. The mink would forego food, hiding spots, or just sitting around getting fat, to go frolick in the water.

And do you know how the fur industry keeps minks locked up? In barren cages.

Even if every one of those 15,000 mink die inside a week, you can bet they're having more fun that waiting to be turned into a fur coat.

 

[imaplanck.]

Even if every one of those 15,000 mink die inside a week, you can bet they're having more fun that waiting to be turned into a fur coat.

But they dont know they are going to be turned into fur coats and they will have a life and a humane death, unlike when they will be savaged by the first predator that comes a long to take advantage of its domesticated ass.
I wager these actions wont even hurt the pocket of the farmer, as they are well aware of this kind of thing and only the most retarded of their likes wouldn't be insured against this contingency.

 

[Roman]

But they dont know they are going to be turned into fur coats and they will have a life and a humane death, unlike when they will be savaged by the first predator that comes a long to take advantage of its domesticated ass.
I wager these actions wont even hurt the pocket of the farmer, as they are well aware of this kind of thing and only the most retarded of their likes wouldn't be insured against this contingency.

Knowledge of what they will be doesn't matter. Their lives are shit. They're crowded in stinking, blank boxes with nothing to do. Imagine if you had to live in a small prison cell and eat bad food for the rest of your life.

There's scientific evidence that these animals value play more than food, more than safety, more than not doing anything and living a "humane" life in a crate.

 

[Clockwood]

Mink in captivity live a healthy and well fed life right up until the point in which they are harvested... which, might I point out, is probably much quicker and more painless than any end they would ever find in the wild. Sick, scarred, unhealthy, or stunted mink don't make anyone as much money, after all.

Once dropped into the wild by these barking moon-bat environmentalist nutters, they face a truely horrible death. Starvation or having to eat your own kin to survive just a day longer. Being ripped apart by predators they never learned to fear. Walking out into the middle of the road, unaware of little things like automobiles, and being crushed or crippled. Hypothermia on a cold night because none of these mink have or know how to dig burrows.

Argue about the ethics of raising mink is fine. If you can get a law passed banning such farms or instituting more humane treatment for the animals, I will fully support phasing out the current practices. But there is no doubt in my mind that the act of just releasing those mink into the wild like that was utterly wrong and perverse.